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Old 08-28-2008, 03:55 PM   #43
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Sorry I didn't call you a lier just said no lying. Thats all.... Sorry for the misunderstanding... I why would you want to chain a super duty to a tundra... We all know who would win.. The super duty it's a bigger truck..... Why compare them...
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Old 08-28-2008, 10:21 PM   #44
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10,000 lbs, behind a Toyota?, in traffic?, at speed?, thats insanity.
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Old 08-29-2008, 02:11 PM   #45
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Wow... I have yet to see any valid arguments for buying a truck from the "Big 3" vs. a Tundra.

Toyota has years of experience (73, to be exact) building trucks all over the world -- One example is called the Hilux (now Tacoma), and it's widely regarded as one tough SOB. (You don't see militias in any country in the world driving around in Chevys and Fords, but you always see them in Toyotas, because the damn things can't be broken.)

Also, when I picked up my Tundra (my first full-size truck, purchased in advance of our eventual Airstream), it had a sticker of the Texas flag on the back. Seems Toyota is doing their part to help out America by putting factories over here and building products specifically for our market. Sure, the corporate profits go back to Japan, but who cares about those at the very top? They're paying those folks down in San Antonio a decent wage, which they're spending right here in the USA. That's what REALLY matters.

And, having lived in Japan for a year back in the 90's, I can tell you that Harleys were popular there as well, but not because they were more reliable -- they are a status symbol, just like those Cadillacs and Buicks someone mentioned. There's no way the average Japanese person could afford to maintain (let alone purchase) one of those boats. (And by that logic, why is it that rich folks in the US don't drive Cadillacs and Buicks? Maybe because they know the value of a dollar and realize that Lexuses and Acuras are cheaper to maintain?)

I'm no Japanese car apologist -- I generally prefer German or American, but arguing the value of a similarly equipped and spec'd domestic truck vs. a Tundra is a tough argument to make. Build quality is better, ride quality is better, and Toyota has a much better reliability reputation. The Big 3 are improving, but that's likely only because Toyota has finally entered the market.

There's also a serious lack of actual FACTS coming out in the arguments against the Tundra. For example, rangebowdrie says: "The import brand "trucks", are short wheelbase, lightweight, low payload vehicles." When in fact, the Tundra DoubleCab has a 145.7" wheelbase. That's more than 10" longer than the F-150 (132.5") and Silverado 1500 (133.9"), and 5" longer than the Ram 1500 (140.5") (All models have the largest V8 offered in the model line and an extended cab. Numbers from Edmunds.com). How are we to believe anything else you say when you can't even be bothered to look that up?

Someone else had it right -- Tow with what you're comfortable with. If that means you need a 3/4 Ton diesel for a 28' Flying Cloud, then run with it. That's the model of Airstream I'm looking at, and the fact that its GVWR doesn't even approach 3/4 of the Tundra's rated towing capacity gives me no qualms about its ability to handle it. (Especially when you consider that our lawsuit happy environment means that rated towing capacities are likely rounded down to a large degree for potential liability reasons. You can bet that the #1 automaker in the world would think about potential lawsuits before publishing those numbers.)

I've enjoyed the spirited debate, but please, let's temper the hype with some facts.
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Old 08-29-2008, 02:15 PM   #46
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I have an 08 Tundra 5.7. a little over 3500 miles and I like it. Pulled the small trailer over 1500 miles and the big ones around town, so far so good.
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Old 08-29-2008, 03:14 PM   #47
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Quote:
Toyota has years of experience (73, to be exact) building trucks all over the world -- One example is called the Hilux (now Tacoma), and it's widely regarded as one tough SOB.
That's the small truck, we're talking about the full size trucks here, and toyota has very little experience building them, compared to the big three.

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They're paying those folks down in San Antonio a decent wage, which they're spending right here in the USA. That's what REALLY matters.
Yes, they are built here, but really now, is that all that "REALLY matters"?

By the way, did you know the demand is so low for those trucks that the assembly line is shut down as we speak/type. They are retooling after just starting up last year and making some changes to "improve the truck"? What does that tell you?

I'll bet you haven't even looked at an American truck lately. I did look at and drive a Toyota before I bought my truck last year, and some of the facts you state about Toyotas, like "Build quality is better, ride quality is better, and Toyota has a much better reliability reputation." Simply is not true. I drove several trucks before I bought mine and I will gurantee you my GMC is better quality, rides better, is more reliable (how long has Toyota been buliding their V8 engine?), and it gets better fuel mileage.

There are lots of folks today that have the thought ingrained that American autos and trucks are inferior, and it simply is not true. Why do you think that currently, all the American trucks are outselling Toyota?
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Old 08-29-2008, 04:06 PM   #49
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super duty gun truck on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Check this out. Here is Out of the country soil???? No Toyotas in these pictures?
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Old 08-29-2008, 04:15 PM   #50
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That's the small truck, we're talking about the full size trucks here, and toyota has very little experience building them, compared to the big three.
Truck == truck. Experience is experience. Toyota has years of experience building and selling trucks of all sizes all over the world, they just haven't been readily available in the US. Yes, the Tundra is a new model, but that doesn't mean that Toyota's years of experience at building trucks is any less valuable than the years of experience the domestic automakers have.

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Yes, they are built here, but really now, is that all that "REALLY matters"?
Umm... Yeah. It does. If you look at where all the profits from one sale of one vehicle of ANY brand or country of origin go, you'll see that the local chain benefits WAY more than the manufacturer. I'm talking about EVERYONE who touches the vehicle or is involved in the transaction, from the plant to the customer who buys it. Think about the transportation company that hauls it from the port of entry (or factory), the 3rd party accessory company that applies the tint and fancy racing stripes, the dealer, the company that's contracted to come and wash the trucks on the lot, the finance company, the extended warranty servicer, etc. etc. So what if it says Toyota on the outside? The US of A profits from the sale of that Toyota cumulatively than Japan or Toyota Motor Company. The fact that they're built in San Antonio (or at least mine was) is just gravy.

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By the way, did you know the demand is so low for those trucks that the assembly line is shut down as we speak/type. They are retooling after just starting up last year and making some changes to "improve the truck"? What does that tell you?
It tells me that Toyota learns from their mistakes and is willing to modify a relatively new product, which is a lot more than can be said for the domestic manufacturers, who seem to be unwilling to modify even an OLD product. (Hello? Pushrod V8? LEAF SPRINGS and DRUM BRAKES??!!?)

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I'll bet you haven't even looked at an American truck lately.
You'd lose that bet. I looked at all of them. I just bought my Tundra a little over a month ago.

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Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
There are lots of folks today that have the thought ingrained that American autos and trucks are inferior, and it simply is not true. Why do you think that currently, all the American trucks are outselling Toyota?
Umm... Because they build way more of them and they're practically giving them away? Because fleet sales aren't listed separately from retail sales? Because "truck buyers" are typically extremely conservative and are unwilling to try new things?

I'll agree that domestic cars and trucks don't have anywhere near the quality and reliability issues they did even 10 years ago anymore. Hell, I'd even go so far as to say that there are domestics (Chevy Mailbu) that are better than their comparable imports (Honda Accord), when comparably equipped.

My stated position earlier still stands: This thread is full of hype and innuendo, but no actual facts. If numbers aren't enough to show that the Tundra is just as capable as any other 1/2 ton pickup, then it's impossible to prove that any truck is better than ANY other -- it's all subjective.
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Old 08-29-2008, 04:42 PM   #51
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Tundra Towing

I pull a 1960 24' land yacht with an 2008 tundra. We are in the mountains of pa and have no problems so far. I do run equalizer bars. The suspension is softer than the ford f-250 which should be better for the trailer. Plenty of power and i am still adjusting too the six speed in tow haul mode. I also seen a u-tube of a new tundra dragging a chevy silverado across a parking lot. You can make anything on u-tube.
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Old 08-29-2008, 05:51 PM   #52
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super duty gun truck on Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Check this out. Here is Out of the country soil???? No Toyotas in these pictures?
Bad example. Who's driving (and therefore also paying to maintain) that truck? Yep -- coalition forces (or the private contractors who masquerade as such), and therefore the US taxpayers.

Find a picture of a group of militants from Africa or the Middle East, and chances are good they're riding in a Toyota Hilux. (Note that I'm not advocating for militias, nor implying that Toyota supports them. The point I'm trying to make is that the trucks are crazy tough, reliable, and cheap and easy to maintain. Here's a clip from Top Gear demonstrating its durability.)

The video of the F-250 vs. the Titan is irrelevant to this discussion. (The other is clearly a Ford marketing video, and is not only irrelevant, but also suspect.) The Ford F-250 Super Duty is going to beat a Titan or a Tundra both on paper and likely on the street in those kinds of tests every time. I'm not saying (and I don't think anyone else did, either) that a heavy duty truck wouldn't best a 1/2 ton in towing and frame strength, etc.

Show me a similar test and result with a Tundra vs. an F-150, and I'll give your argument some credence.

Look, I'm not trying to be an a$$hole or anything, I'd just like some actual information from people who know, instead of a thread full of "Why would you want to haul with that Jap Crap?"-type BS.
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Old 08-29-2008, 05:56 PM   #53
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I just stumbled on your post. Hope U and the Misses are OK.
Equipment we can replace.
We also tow with a 2001/ F350 /7.3/Crew/LongBed/and our 77 27ft Overlander.
We love it.
Roger
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Old 08-29-2008, 07:07 PM   #54
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I Know thats so funny Kit
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Old 08-29-2008, 07:15 PM   #55
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I wonder how many pages this thread is going to become???? This is an endless debate.
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Old 08-29-2008, 07:21 PM   #56
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"Endless" indeed. The original question was about a 31' Classic. I love my Tundra, but wouldn't tow a 31' Classic with it. Case closed.

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