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Old 01-27-2004, 03:55 PM   #1
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Toyota, 4x4, V-8, Auto, Tundra pick-up

I have a Toyota, Tundra V-8, 4x4, automatic with a trailer towing package.
I pulled a 22 ft '68 Land Yacht last Summer with no problem I intend to step up to a 25-28 Classic. Does anybody have experience with this combination?
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Old 01-27-2004, 05:35 PM   #2
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Re: Toyota, 4x4, V-8, Auto, Tundra pick-up

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Originally posted by Fogducker
I have a Toyota, Tundra V-8, 4x4, automatic with a trailer towing package.
I pulled a 22 ft '68 Land Yacht last Summer with no problem I intend to step up to a 25-28 Classic. Does anybody have experience with this combination?
You have only 4.7 litres. IMHO, You had better have at least a 4.10 rear end to pull a 25 and I think the 28 is out of the question regardless of rear end ratio.

I say this having pulled a 5000# 22' International with a 5.3 Silverado and finding that it was just adequate in the hills before I installed a Banks system and not overpowered afterward.
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Old 01-27-2004, 05:44 PM   #3
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You've got the power and by what I've seen, the Tundra is a solid truck. Talked with folks pulling a 28ft sovergn (sp?) this weekend and they felt fine with the Tundra. Of course it wasn't 4X4 and so had a better pull. My Tundra pulls the International just fine. You should use a sway bar with the WD hitch though.
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Old 01-27-2004, 05:50 PM   #4
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I also towed a lot with my 1500 Silverado 5.3. Our trailer weighed (CAT Cert.) 4600lbs. loaded for travel. One trip to Sturgis & a 2nd to New England (from Texas) was enough to convince us to go to a "3/4-ton" diesel. We will be traveling approx. 180+ days/yr. (est. 25K mi. towing/tr.) and that has something to do with it but, as pointed out when you are climbing any hills you'll want the torque of the larger disp. engine. IMHO, STOPPING & CONTROL are considerations often overlooked when "can-I-tow-it" questions are discussed.
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Old 01-27-2004, 06:03 PM   #5
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First, you are to be congradulated on asking this question BEFORE buying the trailer. It is amazing to me how few people do this.

Next, you really need to get your figures together. For your truck you need combined gross vehicle weight (CGVW), gross vehicle weight (GVW), and rear axle weight limit. You also need to know its actual weight, loaded as for travel.

Now you need to know the actual loaded weight of your coach, and the tongue weight so loaded, including the hitch.

Then do the math. The tongue weight goes (mainly) on the tow vehicle and most of that on the rear axle. All of it combines for CGVW.

I think you are going to find there is not a chance for the 28' Classic, and that it is going to be real tough for the 25'. But that is only a guess.

Good luck!

Mark
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Old 01-27-2004, 08:28 PM   #6
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Fogducker

I have the same set up your are asking about. 2000 Tundra.
I have a 1974 31' Excella 500, bought it in U.P. Michigan November of 2002. Only time I have towed with this set up was bringing it home to West Virginia in rain, snow and moderate wind. I used a WD hitch with sway control. I had NO PROBLEMS with pulling, controlling or stopping. The Tundra is rated for #7100, I discussed towing with a local SOB dealer and my Toyota Dealer. Both said it was not a problem. I was able to tow up to 65 mph on the Ohio Turnpike (rolling Hills) my gas milage ranged from 9.4 to 11 mpg. The Excella was empty. When I finish renovating, I will take a short trip to "test the set up", but from my expierience, it all depends on how and where you are planning to travel. I plan to always tow with empty tanks and I don't plan on taking everything I can pack into the unit. I don't believe you would be disappointed in your truck with a 28' AS.
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Old 01-27-2004, 09:40 PM   #7
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There is a rule of thumb about towing 15% under your tow capacity. This gives you reserves in hills (c'mon -- you're from West-by-God-Virginia!). Towing right at your capacity strains the entire drivetrain and I could get back to you with threads that discuss this further. The Towing with a Tundra thread has some flatland Floridians pretty happy with a Tundra.

Add 3' and go with a 28'??? Go to a Classic at significantly greater weight??? IMHO a new 25' Safari puts a strain on most half-ton pickups out there. The Tundra is a 7/8ths size half-tonner.

Look at the above thread for Silverback's input at that time. Then look at his Switching to Diesel? thread.

If you put 10-15% of your trailer's GVWR onto the tongue as you should, look carefully at the load you can carry internally in your truck. Don't forget that the driver and gasoline count against that. Good intentions won't lower the tongue weight -- you'll never know until you put the combined rig through a CAT scale test (see RoadKingMoe's post at http://www.airforums.com/forum...&threadid=8871). That is a lot of trailer for a Tundra -- unless you buy it at Can-Am..... Please follow Mark's advice above and be real honest about the math.

If you're really going to tow, tow, tow I don't know if the current 9000+ tow capacity half-tonners would be happy with a 28 footer. Is it 2006 that the first San Antonio Tundras will come out at full half-ton size?
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Old 01-27-2004, 09:42 PM   #8
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Back up here! Are you talking about a new 25-28' Classic? The early to late '70's 31' Airstreams used veneers and light wood rather than the oak cabinets used in today's Classic. My '77 Excella 500 31' weighs 5880 lbs. before options, freshwater, etc. which should be about the same as the '74 Excella 500 31'. However, a '02 Classic 25' dry weight is 6,000 lbs. before options and the '02 Classic 28' is 6,730 lbs. The Tundra may tow an empty mid 70's 31' OK but if he is considering a Classic 28', we are talking around 850 more lbs. in just dry weight. It might be more than the Tundra can handle in all situations. I'm with another forum member that the 25' Classic may be at the edge, if not over, the Tundra's capability and the 28' is well over. The Tundra is a good truck but the Nissan Titan would be better suited to the 25' or 28' Classic. Better yet, a 2500hd or F250 with appropriate V8 or diesel. Just an opinion by someone who towed an Excella from AZ. to TN. with a '92 Z71 4X4 with 5.7 litre engine, 5 speed manual and a lacking 3.42 rear end. I know, the 3.73 or 4.10 would have been the ticket but I would have wanted more engine.
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Old 01-27-2004, 10:03 PM   #9
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Thank you Craig.

Early this month I towed my virtually empty 3700-3900 pound Argosy home with my Nissan Titan. The Titan's 5-speed automatic is supposed to be equivalent to a 4.10 rear end -- though the numbers are different because it's not a 4-speed. But the rear differential is not beefed up like the 3/4-ton vehicles.

It might have been my mistake but we used US-50 in northeast W.Va. I was glad I had that much truck at my disposal. I wouldn't have wanted less. I was lucky it was below freezing because the transmission temp gauge cooled off real quick when it showed an inclination to heat up. These are routine challenges whether you are in the Adirondacks or the Rockies. But I sure won't ever want to take a loaded 24' trailer back on that road unless I had a bigger capacity truck!
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Old 01-27-2004, 10:18 PM   #10
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Bob,
I've read at least 5 reviews on Titan trucks and I've wondered how it had done so well when running a 3.31 ? rear end. My son works in the Dechard, TN. plant that builds the 5.6 litre Endurance engine the Titan uses and he says they are nice engines. They have had a few of the trucks around at the factory and he likes them. The Titan will give the Chevy 1/2 tons a run for their money.
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Old 01-27-2004, 10:34 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Gerald Clay
You've got the power and by what I've seen, the Tundra is a solid truck. Talked with folks pulling a 28ft sovergn (sp?) this weekend and they felt fine with the Tundra. Of course it wasn't 4X4 and so had a better pull. My Tundra pulls the International just fine. You should use a sway bar with the WD hitch though.
Read again. He is talking about a 25' Classic that grosses half again what your International weighs or a 28' Classic that grosses out at 1530# more than the 25' and 3760# more than the International.

Do you think you could tow another 3760#? I doubt it.

At the Toyota's 7100# towing capacity, the 25' is 200# over the Toyota's published towing limit; the 28' 1730# over the Toyota's towing limit. That's with a driver only and an empty truck. Accounting for fuel, passenger weight, and contents of truck, the International comes in at just about the recommended 75% of the published towing capacity.
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Old 01-27-2004, 11:12 PM   #12
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Craig -- The 5-speed keeps the engine in its 'sweet spot' over a broader variety of loads and speed. Many write-ups I've read are that the Big 3 are going to have to go that way soon. Quite a few were surprised the new F-150 didn't. So the top gear at the transmission is a higher ratio than that of a 4-speed. It's been a long time since I had to do the calculations in school, but reviews state the top gear and the 3.31 rear end are equivalent to a 4.1. Time will tell how it holds up... I stayed light with a trailer because I think both Ford & Nissan's tow capacity claims are not realistic in everyday use. The truck's GVWR isn't that much bigger!

Transmission tow mode (tow package) moves the shift points higher. The manual still recommends staying out of overdrive while towing. I got 9.5 mpg -- not too bad in my opinion. It gets 15 on the freeway without a trailer. It burns regular but I put in an occasional mid-grade tank when I knew I'd be towing in tougher terrain. It rides a little beefier than a friend's Tundra but still very pleasant and not busy.

I got the navigation package just so it would have side air bags (otherwise would have had to buy off-road package). It is surprising how many dashboard glows I saw on interstates at night. In the Sunday evening back-to-town mini rush hour the nav package slipped me through Baltimore-D.C. and across the Bay Bridge so easily!
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Old 01-28-2004, 06:56 PM   #13
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The best advice i got was weigh, weigh, weigh! RoadKingMoe told me how to use the CAT scale and what it means. I am going to weigh everytrip for now on. It is always good to know how heavy your rig is without any guesswork.

RoadKingMoe is THE source for this information. Read his posts:
http://www.airforums.com/forum...&threadid=8871
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Old 01-28-2004, 08:48 PM   #14
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I am towing a 1987 29' Sovereign with a dry weight of 5300. The toyote tundra 4x2 access cab has a curb weight of 4400. This puts me at a total dry weight of 9700 pounds. The toyota tundra has a Gross Cargo Weight Rating of 11800. This means I have about 2100 pounds to spare. Yeah right!!! That is before I add fuel (26.4gals at 8.33 pnds each (220pnds) and people another 400pnds and propane (60 pnds), and how about a hitch (100pnds or more??) and now maybe I should think about packing some clothes. I sure do start running out room quick and this is with the 4x2 model. Don't get me wrong - my set up is a little under my tow limit and I feel comfortable driving and breaking - but I wouldn't want to add to it.

Move up to the 4x4 model with a new 25' classic and your over before you know it. GCWR is the same 11800 but your vehicle curb weight is 4675 and the '04 classic 25' is 6050 w/ out options, putting your dry weight at 10725 before you get started. This leave you 1075 pnds to play with. Add people and gas and you've only got 400 pnds left. Add a hitch and you've god 300 pnds - need a spare tire, only 250 pnds left. Packing clothes and food, maybe a bicyle or dog - you are now over your limit.

My suggestion - look into another trailer or tow vehicle.

Joe
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