Towing with Range Rover

[ghaag]

Originally Posted by lcd32bit

Reviving this a thread as I've gotten a few PMs from folks in this forum and the RR forums asking about towing Airstreams with a Range Rover.

Picked up a 2017 Range Rover Sport Supercharged with the 510hp/461lb-ft 5.0L V8 engine, with Torque Vectoring, Low Range, Air Suspension, and Hydraulic Body Stabalizers. So far it's exceeded all expectations towing my 2017 International Signature 27FB Twin. I wanted to avoid a pickup truck because we wanted a vehicle that we actually wanted to drive when we were not towing, and since we expect towing to be <10% of the mileage we expect to put on the Rover, it seemed to make more sense at the time to get a 'do-all' vehicle if we were only to get one. Time will tell.

Towing & Weights
The max tow capacity, as per the sticker, is 7700lbs with a max tongue weight of 770lbs. Currently using the BlueOx SwayPro w/ 1,000lb bars. The tow bar is located very close to the rear axle, way recessed under the bumper, which makes for a more stable tow. Swapped the Steel propane tanks with Aluminum, and Lewster is currently ripping out the crappy tongue batteries, charge controller, and inverter and replacing with a large Lithium and Solar Victron system. The payload capacity of the Range Rover is 1750lbs, which allows for tongue weight and plenty of cargo. When I towed a loaded 23D with my old 2013 Jeep Grand Cherokee V6, I could feel that the Jeep was close to the GVWR. No similar feeling with the Rover.

Brakes & Controllers
The brakes on the V8 model are massive (15" front, 14.4" rear) and simply do not fade. Brake dust is immense, consensus on pad life seems to be around 25,000 miles, at which point the dealer will attempt to fleece you for a $6,000 brake job, and yes the Brembo brakes do squeak. The Prodigy RF brake controller does not pair with the Range Rover and was problematic, so I opted for a hard-wired solution: Prodigy P3 which works far better and offers smoother braking. Simply get the Ford adapter and use Industrial Velcro + VHB tape to install under the dash. Some MY 2015/2016 RR/RRS will have the brake controller plug wiring messed up, and there is a service item on this, so check your vehicle before you plug things in.

Towing
21" wheels don't offer the best ride quality when you're towing a heavy load, so we are going to downsize to a more reasonable 20" with Michelin Defender LTX tires same type as we upgraded the Airstream tires to. The engine offers more than enough power for passing, going up grades, and offers a decent enough compression ratio to slow things down when using engine braking. Hydraulic body stabalizers tighten things right up on the road, and the air suspension has not been problematic once you disable the auto access height mode (lowers when parking). Mpg ranges between 12.5-14mpg depending on terrain, with a 27.7 gallon actual tank capacity, 24.6 gallon as per dash fuel gage. Premium fuel recommended (required).

Problems
While all signal, brake, and marker lights work, the Rover doesn't actually recognize that a trailer is attached as the Airstream uses LED tail lights which do not draw enough current. This means that shift patterns are not optimized for towing out of the box. Many folks opt to install load resistors to the tail lights, and Lew is helping me with this one.
Being a new model year with a brand new infotainment, there are software bugs. However the transmission and engine are bulletproof designs. Time will tell what problems arise though.

Let me know if you folks have any questions!

Very helpful information, thanks for taking the time for the detailed post. I have a 2018 RR HSE w the V6 Turbo that I am considering using to tow my 25' Safari, have you seen or talked to anyone with a setup similar to this?

[lcd32bit]

With the 25’ Airstream, some of the models have a high tongue weight compared to even the 27’ models, and it may exceed the max rated tongue weight of the RRS. That being said, in Durango CO I met a person who was full-timing with their RR Sport (Diesel) towing a 25’ FB model, and that area has very hilly terrain! They weren’t even using a high-end WD system, just what looked like the Anderson WD hitch.

The one advantage of the Supercharged V8 model is the addition of the Dynamic Response system which tightens up steering and suspension when selected, and when very windy it actually helps. The SCV6 likely has enough torque to pull, but it depends on the terrain you’re driving. I can say that the SCV8 has no issues even with 10% grades going up or down (braking via. Engine compression & dropping a few gears). The Diesel model has more torque and a higher compression ratio than the SCV6, might be a better option.

But all that being said, try it out on some backroads. Definitely easier than taking it out on the highway!

[johnrobison]

My own Range Rover has the supercharged V8 engine, and I agree those models have plenty of power for pulling and passing. Power is better than our 2500 trucks, which is not surprising given the considerably higher rated power.

If you take occasional trips I think this is probably fine, and it will drive well. But if you go a long way I suspect you will see things wear out faster on the Rover. Brakes are one example; there are others.

If I compare the out-of-warranty costs to drive a Supercharged Range Rover 50k miles, with 10% of that towing, versus a Chevy 2500 truck with 20% towing, the difference is pretty striking. Even though we have the ProPride adapters for the Range Rover we really don't use them for towing much.

I understand those who say the Range Rover is a lot more enjoyable to drive, when not towing a trailer. I get that you like to drive it around at the destination as opposed to a truck. If that is the paramount concern, it seems like the Range Rover is a good answer; just remember there will be a cost in maintenance and repair that may not be immediately obvious. You may feel the drivetrain is completely trouble free until the day the transmission fails and costs $8k, and you have to ask if that would have happened had it been a purpose built truck. Sometimes we can't know but as a Land Rover service manager I think the trend is pretty clear.

But I'm certainly not suggesting you don't do it. I'm just pointing out it's all a matter of cost. The Rover will cost more to buy, more money to fix, and as it gets up in miles, it's more likely to break. But it will absolutely drive better when uncoupled and be a generally good tow vehicle for a 25-foot Airstream. The fact that I think a heavier truck is a better Airstream tow vehicle is immaterial if you don't like bigger trucks, and as long as you are able to pay the costs, why not?

[chaseav]

I think I was the OP on this thread, started a long time ago. Always love seeing the discussion. What I REALLY want to know now is if the insurance company for people who have accidents will deny their claims because they *knowing or not* were towing outside the vehicles published weight ratings. I assume regardless of the payout, any Lawyer would be able to easily make the case that the driver should be held civilly liable for additional damages over and above insurance coverage limitations. I know the RR can easily handle the AS, probably all the way up past a 27ft in reality. But if you cause or are part of an accident, do they get to take the shirt off your back? Anyway, I bought a Cadillac, am well within ratings and STILL look like a jerk. Everybody wins!

[switters]

Originally Posted by boltonfish

I have learned a great deal, like (vehicle weight + hitch weight) < GVWR, and the whole thing needs to be < GCWR. Luckily before committing to my trailer target. I wanted the car, so looking for the matching trailer rather than other way round .

So, my 2016 RR Sport HSE Td6: tow cap of 7716#, 23FB GVWR is 6000#; hitch max is 772#, 23FB is 467 (interestingly the LIGHTER than the 19', 20'FC, or 23', presumably because of the balance on the dbl axle). And at 254hp, 440 lb/ft @ 1750rpm, it should do well. The Land Rover web site says something like "it's a great set up for towing heavier loads."

I think the 25', especially with a short wheel base TV, is not for me. Now I'm hunting for a 23FB that maybe someone decided was just too small for them!

I'm in almost this exact situation. We just bought a 2018 FC 23FB. We have a 2019 RR Sport HSE TD6. Both the Airstream dealer and the RR dealer said the RRS should have no trouble towing the 23FB. I got concerned after reading this thread, but then I saw your post, and it seems like I shouldn't have anything to worry about. Is that true?

[wulfraat]

Originally Posted by switters;

I'm in almost this exact situation. We just bought a 2018 FC 23FB. We have a 2019 RR Sport HSE TD6. Both the Airstream dealer and the RR dealer said the RRS should have no trouble towing the 23FB. I got concerned after reading this thread, but then I saw your post, and it seems like I shouldn't have anything to worry about. Is that true?

You’ll be fine towing a 23’ with a RRS.

As you get up there in miles and past your warrantee watch out on repair, upkeep and transmission replacement costs... but that goes without saying for an RR/LR product (I’ve owned 3 - it was a nonsensical passion).

Absolutely deploy a WD hitch. Calibrate your weight distribution / spring bar tension with the vehicle sitting level on a concrete pad >>>>>>> with the RR battery negative cable physically disconnected >>>>>> to eliminate EAS compensation.......

When you are done with LR products from a towing perspective do what I did and get a dedicated 3/4 ton diesel towing rig and 30’ AS with more room to spread out in [emoji6]

I do miss my 2011 L322 500hp supercharged though [emoji4]

[switters]

Originally Posted by wulfraat

You’ll be fine towing a 23’ with a RRS.

As you get up there in miles and past your warrantee watch out on repair, upkeep and transmission replacement costs... but that goes without saying for an RR/LR product (I’ve owned 3 - it was a nonsensical passion).

Absolutely deploy a WD hitch. Calibrate your weight distribution / spring bar tension with the vehicle sitting level on a concrete pad >>>>>>> with the RR battery negative cable physically disconnected >>>>>> to eliminate EAS compensation.......

When you are done with LR products from a towing perspective do what I did and get a dedicated 3/4 ton diesel towing rig and 30’ AS with more room to spread out in [emoji6]

I do miss my 2011 L322 500hp supercharged though [emoji4]

Thanks! I used to buy vehicles slightly used and own them until they died. At this point in my life, I like owning newer cars and selling them or trading them in before the warranty expires. Not the most economical approach, but fortunately I'm in a position where that's not the main consideration. So, I'll be getting rid of the 2019 RRS before the warranty expires!

I did consider a truck, but this TV will also be my wife's daily driver and she has no interest in driving one—or even a huge SUV like a Navigator or Tahoe. That's how we narrowed it down to an LR/RR.

[chaseav]

Did anyone else notice that the 2020 Land Rover Discovery has a tongue weight with WD hitch of 820lbs now...? That's up from 770 on everything else I've seen. That means a 25fb tongue weight is just 13 lbs too heavy at 833lbs with "LP, water and cargo." So if you pull off an LP tank, don't drive full of water and go modest with cargo, you're easily back under weight and "legal..." right?

[BayouBiker]

The dry tongue weights only provide a starting point to help understand where you will be once you have loaded the trailer up. Once loaded the most stable and thus ideal tongue weight for a modern 25' is about 1050 lbs. Can you strip it down and keep it under 850? sure but you will have a trailer that is less stable and less safe in variable cross winds. That people insist on setting themselves up for a possible future fail baffles me.

[ROBERT CROSS]

Yep...leave water & LP behind, don't pack any clothes, food or beer and you're ready to go...where?

And don't forget...it must be a DD.😂

Bob
🇺🇸

[chaseav]

Originally Posted by BayouBiker

The dry tongue weights only provide a starting point to help understand where you will be once you have loaded the trailer up. Once loaded the most stable and thus ideal tongue weight for a modern 25' is about 1050 lbs. Can you strip it down and keep it under 850? sure but you will have a trailer that is less stable and less safe in variable cross winds. That people insist on setting themselves up for a possible future fail baffles me.

What are you saying here? I have zero clue what my actual tongue weight is... not because I don't care or don't see the value in knowing, simply because I have no way of measuring it. Regardless, I don't want to exceed the published tongue weight capability of the tow vehicle.

[chaseav]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Yep...leave water & LP behind, don't pack any clothes, food or beer and you're ready to go...where?

And don't forget...it must be a DD.😂

Bob
🇺🇸

Food and beer are stowed over or aft of the wheel wells so that's good for keeping the tongue weight down! Like ballast.

[PB_NB]

Originally Posted by wulfraat

You’ll be fine towing a 23’ with a RRS.

As you get up there in miles and past your warrantee watch out on repair, upkeep and transmission replacement costs... but that goes without saying for an RR/LR product (I’ve owned 3 - it was a nonsensical passion).

Absolutely deploy a WD hitch. Calibrate your weight distribution / spring bar tension with the vehicle sitting level on a concrete pad >>>>>>> with the RR battery negative cable physically disconnected >>>>>> to eliminate EAS compensation.......

When you are done with LR products from a towing perspective do what I did and get a dedicated 3/4 ton diesel towing rig and 30’ AS with more room to spread out in [emoji6]

I do miss my 2011 L322 500hp supercharged though [emoji4]

What is that piece of carbon fibre artwork sitting on your roof rack?

[PB_NB]

Originally Posted by chaseav

What are you saying here? I have zero clue what my actual tongue weight is... not because I don't care or don't see the value in knowing, simply because I have no way of measuring it. Regardless, I don't want to exceed the published tongue weight capability of the tow vehicle.

Hi Chaseav,

We are 2 months into owning our 22FB and we started off with 422 lbs. published TW from the marketing team at Airstream who make a nice website.

We have a built in scale right in our hitch which gives us instant tongue weight readings which are typically 15% higher or about 500 lbs. We have focused on making sure that we keep our tongue weight as close to 15% of our loaded trailer weight but we are more in the area of about 12% based on 4,200 lbs trailer weight. The higher percentage will help with potential sway. Below 10% and sway will become easier to induce.

There is a nice little tongue scale that can be picked up from etrailer.com called Sherline for just over $100.

Knowing what you tongue weight is will help you achieve a smooth trailering experience without white knuckling.

I had a sway experience a few years ago when I was passed by a semi. It took about 5 minutes to get it under control and from that day forward, I never ran with a light tongue weight. I owe this experience to stowing my stuff behind the trailer axle. I wanted the car to sit more level and figured this would be a good solution. I almost lost it and could have hurt my wife and other drivers that were close by.

In my short time on this forum, I have come to see that everyone here wants new streamers to have a long and enjoyable experience with no ill will. It is up to you to take what is being offered, filter it, and decide for yourself how to proceed.

Sorry for the long winded post. Just wanted to offer newbie perspective.

I really hope that in the end this works out for you!

Happy Trails...

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by chaseav

Food and beer are stowed over or aft of the wheel wells so that's good for keeping the tongue weight down! Like ballast.

Bad idea...light TW equals sway AND flat beer.

Consider a TV capable of towing a 25' AS, set it up correctly and you will have no concerns about tongue weight limits.👍

Bob
🇺🇸

[BayouBiker]

Excellent post PB_NB. The new insight into other experiences and perspective helps shape my own.

Sway occurs when there is insufficient resistance to side to side movement of the hitch point. Sway is initiated by a sideways force on the trailer, like crosswinds, slip stream of a semi-truck, or a sudden jog or cornering. There are two primary resistances to sideways movement. One is cornering stiffness of the rear vehicle tires, the other is the inertial moment of the trailer at the coupler. Shifting the weight forward toward the coupler increases inertial moment so the higher the tongue weight the more stable is the trailer to sway.

Trouble is High trailer coupler inertia makes the trailer much more difficult for the vehicle to safely pull it around corners. So the ideal trade off point is 15% tongue weight.

[wulfraat]

Originally Posted by PB_NB

What is that piece of carbon fibre artwork sitting on your roof rack?

Voila! Le LOOK! Produit de France c’est maqnifique!

695 limited Canadian flag edition which I’m sure you can appreciate being from BC [emoji4] I-PACK. Campy eps record of course!

[PB_NB]

Originally Posted by wulfraat

Voila! Le LOOK! Produit de France c’est maqnifique!

695 limited Canadian flag edition which I’m sure you can appreciate being from BC [emoji4] I-PACK. Campy eps record of course!

All I can say is WOW! That is amazing that you were able to put it together.

I apologize for this post as it really has no bearing on the OP's question about towing with the a Range Rover but man would that Range Rover look good with this on the roof

However, it does give us an opportunity to appreciate a French work of art.

[AlbertF]

Originally Posted by wulfraat

Voila! Le LOOK! Produit de France c’est maqnifique!

695 limited Canadian flag edition which I’m sure you can appreciate being from BC [emoji4] I-PACK. Campy eps record of course!

That’s a beautiful bicycle.

[wulfraat]

Originally Posted by PB_NB

All I can say is WOW! That is amazing that you were able to put it together.



I apologize for this post as it really has no bearing on the OP's question about towing with the a Range Rover but man would that Range Rover look good with this on the roof



However, it does give us an opportunity to appreciate a French work of art.

Range rovers are a work of art too!