Visit our Popular Forums

Glenritas · 02-12-2015, 10:27 PM

We've been towing our '17 Casitas with our Tahoe from 2001 to 2005 until we got our '05 Avalanche and we used it until 2011 and sold it in Aug 2012. Then back to the Tahoe 2012 for a western states 2 month tour. In Sept 2012 we bought a '69 Tradewind.

Our plan was to use our '98 Tahoe 2 door 2wd to tow our Airstream.

Well after a few tows I felt a bit of a wiggle and said to myself "Doooo I should have kept the Avalanche". Its longer wheelbase was a better match for the Tradewind.

chaseav, what gear ratio does your Avalanche have ?

Our's had a 4.10 , I would most likely would have changed it for the Tradewind to a 4.30 gear set. This can be done for around $ 500 - $ 800 and get a Predator ($ 400)to reflash the computer.

But alas the Avalanche was sold so we bought a Tundra.

The longer wheelbase makes a lot of difference in stability .

dkottum · 02-12-2015, 11:54 PM

You can see how wheelbase makes a difference in "wiggle" (sway) in Glenritas photos. The sway felt at the tow vehicle steering is caused by the trailer pushing sideways on the truck's receiver ball.

A shorter distance from the ball to the truck's rear axle, the shorter the lever to push sideways on the receiver, less sway. The longer the wheelbase, the greater resistance to sideways push on the ball, less sway.

If the truck's tires or suspension allow sideways movement, the sideways push will be greater. Stiffer or shorter sidewall tires will have less sideways movement, less sway.

Install a Hensley/ProPride hitch and the sideways push (sway) is projected forward from the hitch ball to the truck's rear axle (which effectively becomes the trailer pivot point similar to a fifth wheel trailer), and there is no leverage forward to the truck's steering axle. Any sway tendency is resisted by the truck's rear axle and it never happens.

When considering a tow vehicle, there's more to sway resistance than wheelbase length.

Glenritas · 02-13-2015, 08:07 AM

I understand the OP's want of a do it all vehicle, so a pick up is not exactly the vehicle for him .
He seems to want a SUV of some sort .

His current Avalanche seems to be not quite up to the task power wise, thus my suggestion of changing the rear gear ratio.

One thing I did to our Avalanche the made it even better was to add a GearVendors unit.
It split the gears down to a 500 RPM drop from 1000 RPM between gears and made finding just the right gear in mountain towing possible .

I did a lot of 2nd over on mountain roads, and generally towed in 3rd over on the highway.

My point of showing our different Tow Vehicles and trailers is to see the relationship of the TV axles and trailer axles and the leverage the trailer can impose on the TV.

Since I don't use or want to use a WDH or sway control I opted for a longer wheel base.

Rick stream · 02-13-2015, 11:46 AM

Hope you get a Range Rover. I tow a 25fb Int with a full size 2011 RR supercharged and have now changed to a 2014 RR supercharged and love towing with it. its the best i have ever towed with the advanced trailer sway control works great plus the camera system has hitch veiw & trailer backing view. I have the Tuson Rv sway control on the trailer that also works great, after a lot of research i use a std hitch no load bars or mechanical sway system the air springs work very well.

**Kevin245** · 02-13-2015, 12:45 PM

<<Mod Mode>>

A reminder to keep this thread reasonably on topic as we have cleaned up several inappropriate posts. The OP has a legitimate question that deserves appropriate replies. We appreciate those of you who make the effort to post informed material no matter which side of the tow vehicle conundrum you view the subject from.

On Behalf of the Site Team

chaseav · 02-13-2015, 06:47 PM

Glenritas, I have the 3.73 rear end. According to my feature code anyway. I bought her (the Avalanche) new in 2007 and absolutely love it. The family plan is to never sell it but with the new addition to the family (the Airstream) I can definitely see the need to get a bigger engine. Living in the South though, most of my towing does not involve mountains so the thought of getting a pickup just for towing seems pointless. We head north for the summer though through the Blue Ridge Mtns which will definitely require more power. I've altered the route to an easier one with less gradient but it's going to add 1.5-2 hrs to the trip. (Unacceptable!) <--- sarcasm.

The Range Rover would be a best of both worlds scenario where I get a tow vehicle and a fancy schmancy SUV to drive around for 95% of the miles put on it. Truth be told, my wife wants one so either way it's probably going to happen! The question is whether or not I can tow with it.

chaseav · 02-13-2015, 06:49 PM

Rick Stream, so you're saying you tow my exact trailer now with a Range Rover? Any sway issues? Sounds like no. What kind of terrain? How is the hitch weight? Can you lock out the airbag suspension?

chaseav · 02-13-2015, 06:50 PM

* and you don't have any weight distributing hitch?

Rick stream · 02-13-2015, 08:12 PM

No sway at all I have even had at least one panic stop due to someone cut right in front of me. And that is true I don't use a load hitch. the 2014 Range Rover has a class v hitch, no you can not lock out the air springs and I would not want to. I have even done a high speed test with no problems however I don't advocate high speed towing. The RR supercharged has very large brakes, and a lot of power & torque I have been all over the southwest I even went to balloon festa this year. Towing up grades so far have been no problem.

chaseav · 02-13-2015, 08:21 PM

Wow... See, that's the whole reason I made the post. I assume your hitch weight on the trailer is 700+ lbs like mine is? Would you mind sharing a picture of your setup if you have one? Feel free to PM it to me.

Glenritas · 02-13-2015, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaseav

Glenritas, I have the 3.73 rear end. According to my feature code anyway. I bought her (the Avalanche) new in 2007 and absolutely love it. The family plan is to never sell it but with the new addition to the family (the Airstream) I can definitely see the need to get a bigger engine. Living in the South though, most of my towing does not involve mountains so the thought of getting a pickup just for towing seems pointless. We head north for the summer though through the Blue Ridge Mtns which will definitely require more power. I've altered the route to an easier one with less gradient but it's going to add 1.5-2 hrs to the trip. (Unacceptable!) <--- sarcasm.

The Range Rover would be a best of both worlds scenario where I get a tow vehicle and a fancy schmancy SUV to drive around for 95% of the miles put on it. Truth be told, my wife wants one so either way it's probably going to happen! The question is whether or not I can tow with it.

Well there ya go ... problem solved

Road Ruler · 02-14-2015, 05:47 AM

There was a guy here in Ontario who was at a rally we attended back a few years. He was using a WDH of some kind with his Range Rover/Bambi combo. Sorry, don't know anything more about it.

Andrew T · 02-15-2015, 06:53 PM

The New Range Rover is nothing like the land rovers of old. It is likely the best combination of off road capability and on highway performance you can purchase. It is a technological tour do force. The aluminum body gives it a rock solid body structure and a lower center of gravity than other SUV's. The sophisticated 4 wheel independent Air Suspension seems to read the road and respond perfectly. You will love how it tows.

It should have the receiver reinforced and you should use a weight distribution system with it.

**wulfraat** · 02-16-2015, 02:21 PM

I have a 2011 L322 RR supercharged, but we tow with a 2012 infiniti QX instead. We have a 25SS which is 7,000 lbs GRVW and generates ~750lbs tongue/hitch weight.

The L322, like the newer L405 RR can tow 7,700 lbs (pulling). However the hitch rating on the L322 is only 550 lbs vs. 700lbs on the newer RR.

It is correct that the euro airstreams have MUCH lower tongue weights than their north american counter parts... and hence can be towed safely with a larger selection of TVs..

Max hitch weight is what prevents us from towing our 25' with the L322 RR - being ~200lbs over the rated hitch load is just not a good idea. There are posts on this forum regarding hitch failures on LR3s, with 550b hitch rating...

So they have upgraded towing capacities for 2013+ RRs ... @ 700lbs hitch weight you would still be overloading the hitch with full LP tanks and forward batteries... but not by that much. The truck itself has plenty of HP, torque and brakes to tow 7000 lbs of trailer....

Not sure if that helps... but now this thread has me thinking about upgrading to a new RR

BTW for what it is worth I would never tow anything over 4,000 lbs for any great distance using a passenger SUV without load distribution and sway control....

ROBERT CROSS · 02-17-2015, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rostam

Just FYI, the European Airstreams have a ~ 250# tongue weight, due to a different design (axles being more forward).

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaseav

I certainly appreciate the feedback but I don't think that's accurate. If you're seeing a 250 number that's probably in KG not pounds and if that's the case, it converts to something like 550lbs. Which is exactly the max tongue weight of the Range Rover I'm looking at.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rostam

Here is the specification of a 27 ft Airstream in UK:

Specifications - Airstream & Company

Tongue weight (Nose weight) is between 110 to 150 KG, which is 242# to 330#. I suspect a North American 27 ft model would have a tongue weight close to 1000#.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenritas

I'm guessing the OP is thinking about a 23' FC , if so then the trailer is 8' wide x 23.9' long and dry wt starts at 4806# and gross wt is 6000# tongue wt with propane and no cargo or options is 468#.

We need to know the year , model and options of the Range Rover he OP is thinking about to be able to find out its tow rating in the US.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaseav

Okay, I have a 2015 Intl Signature 25FB. Empty weight is 5400lbs, and tongue weight is 740lbs with full propane. The 2015 Land Rover Range Rover HSE has a towing capacity of 7716lbs which greatly exceeds that of my Chevy Avalanche at 7200lbs. (Much bigger engine). I can't even find the tongue weight anywhere right now but I believe it's about 550lbs. The tongue weight is the problem but for 2016, the diesel version may be available here which, may, have a higher tongue weight. Mostly what I'm after here is a first hand account towing with a Range Rover and if the tongue weight is accurate.

Also, our tow vehicle is always our multi-purpose, around town vehicle so I can justify the cost (sort of) but the performance doesn't really seem to be there. I'd settled on that a long time ago but seeing Land Rover not only use an Airstream but brag about its capabilities towing with it made me wonder. The rear suspension has a lock out function specifically for towing but I'm not sure what that does to tongue weight.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tom_T

We're faced with a similar need & multipurpose vehicle, & wanting the smallest package with a V8, & came to the 2006-10 Porsche Cayenne S as our best bet & what we liked & what alos fit into other activities (e.g.: PCA vs. BMW-CCA, etc.), with the VW Taureg V8 or V10 & V6 TDI cousins as maybe. Similar 7716# TW & 770# HW (with WD, 5000/500 wt. brg. on some specs) as your L.Rover above.

For comparison - our TT is a restored with some mods vintage kin 1960 Avion T20 which Avion brochures from 1960 stated 2680#TW & 275# HW, but I just did a HW last weekend with my new Sherline Scale & got 535# HW - with it loaded as we travel - save a few food & clothing items/bags - plus several wt. adding items probably not included in the 275# HW, including: 2x 30# LP tanks, Hensley Cub WD/AS hitch, Tekonsha RF Brake Controller on an 18x24x1/16 steel plate, & a full larger than stock replacement polypropylene water tank (IIRC it's 27 vs 20 gals.). I'd guess the TW is probably more in the 3-4000# +/- range wet & loaded, & I'll be adding an RV bumper bolt-on 2" reciever & cargo rack with the spare & 2 cruiser bikes to the Avion's 4" rear bumper, which may off-load some HW.

I posted a similar "...give me your feedback...." post & got some good feedback, & some trolls & truck-only folks. Frankly, I found more towing feedback & info on the other Porsche & VW forums. I'd also talked with a bunch of Porsche mechanics & other owners with them, in order to get the full good, bad & ugly on them. I also looked at MBZ ML's, BMW X5's, LR & other mid-sized US & Asian SUVs (Durango/Grand Cherokee, Trailblazer/GMC, Explorer, Land Cruiser/4Runner, etc.) from the mid-late 2000's, before zoning in on the Cayenne S.

Hopefully you'll get some good actual experience here, but suggest that you also follow that approach in checking out the LR to make sure it fits your needs. If the LR is what you want, then check it out thoroughly & know any pitfalls.

If you're not sold on LR only, then maybe look at the other choices out there, & I think the Cayenne S or Diesel are good options in the premier end of the range - along with LR.

No sales pitch, since we're still looking anyway! But more for some ideas on an approach to checking it out for your AS's TV duties.

Good Luck!
Tom
///////

Quote:

Originally Posted by chaseav

Wow... See, that's the whole reason I made the post. I assume your hitch weight on the trailer is 700+ lbs like mine is? Would you mind sharing a picture of your setup if you have one? Feel free to PM it to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wulfraat

I have a 2011 L322 RR supercharged, but we tow with a 2012 infiniti QX instead. We have a 25SS which is 7,000 lbs GRVW and generates ~750lbs tongue/hitch weight.

The L322, like the newer L405 RR can tow 7,700 lbs (pulling). However the hitch rating on the L322 is only 550 lbs vs. 700lbs on the newer RR.

It is correct that the euro airstreams have MUCH lower tongue weights than their north american counter parts... and hence can be towed safely with a larger selection of TVs..

Max hitch weight is what prevents us from towing our 25' with the L322 RR - being ~200lbs over the rated hitch load is just not a good idea. There are posts on this forum regarding hitch failures on LR3s, with 550b hitch rating...

So they have upgraded towing capacities for 2013+ RRs ... @ 700lbs hitch weight you would still be overloading the hitch with full LP tanks and forward batteries... but not by that much. The truck itself has plenty of HP, torque and brakes to tow 7000 lbs of trailer....

Not sure if that helps... but now this thread has me thinking about upgrading to a new RR

BTW for what it is worth I would never tow anything over 4,000 lbs for any great distance using a passenger SUV without load distribution and sway control....

Actual weights have no place in a thread discussing theoretical TV capability....

Bob

AmericanaTx · 03-16-2015, 08:23 PM

I owned a 2003 Range Rover HSE and towed a popup and boat with it. Honestly I didn't know either was back there, even went into some back country with the popup and basically tugged it around like a little puppy on a leash...sorry dad for the dents!

With that said the problem with mine that occurred while towing was the airbag suspension went kaput. Leaving me, my rig, car load of friends and our boat/trailer sitting on the side of the road...Im not sure if the 2013 and up models have the springs as a failsafe, if they do then go ahead with it.

Just be sure you aren't stressing the airbag components the way I did, apparently, with 5 people in the car and a trailer behind you.

Also, if you are going to use a WD hitch, and the RR has airbags, you might check to see what height settings are required for towing.

P.S. Marketing campaigns live and die, you're the one left holding the product in the end.

reelfastgreg · 03-27-2015, 10:27 AM

i found this discussion interesting enough to check out the RR. looking at their ratings, it would appear that the max hitch point weight is 350#s so i have to assume you folks would be towing the single axle AS trailers otherwise you would be way over the recommended limits.

NWRVR · 03-28-2015, 12:20 PM

We have a 2008 Range Rover HSE. Max tongue wt 550 lbs and max tow wt 7700 lbs if tow has brakes. We are on our second trip with a 2014 International Serenity 25FB with tongue wt 833 lbs. and loaded 7300 lbs. Blue Ox weight distribution/sway bars reduce the tongue wt. to 550 lbs. traveling from the Portland, OR area over the coast range was no problem. The AS tows better than my 5000 lb. boat!

chaseav · 03-28-2015, 08:00 PM

For me, all that's left to emphatically say the "yes" the Range Rover can be an effective tow vehicle for an AS is to keep track of those who use them and see what it does to the rear suspension over time. Clearly it works well in the short term, with airbag shocks it stands to reason that they might not fair as well but maybe not.

So, all who tow with a Range Rover, keep in touch!

NWRVR · 03-28-2015, 09:41 PM

Good plan. Though I have been towing the boat without weight distributions/sway bars for three years it weighs one ton less but probably just as hard on the air suspension. Anyone setting up a Range Rover with a 7-way plug should have a Land Rover service tech do so as it includes an ECU, relay, wiring harness and software upgrade. The software upgrade recognizes the trailer and changes the shifting pattern and rear air suspension. 2005-2009 Range Rover HSE are not pre-wired for the electric brake controller so that has to be considered when planning the install.