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Old 07-25-2010, 08:46 AM   #29
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Issue closed. Yesterday I bought Michelin LTX M/S 2 255/65R17 (PSI 44) tires for my truck. These tires give me a stiffer sidewall when towing and give me a little better traction in mud and snow. Now I just have to sell the old ones.
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Old 07-29-2010, 01:37 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman View Post

jm'

check those tire size parameters again...



and the rugged trail t/a is an LT tire...

whoops! that would correctly be 'P275/65R18'.

I never knew that dsylexia also included turning numbers upside down!


also, though not critical to this discussion, I've always understood that a "P-metric" designated tire is a "passenger" grade tire, and that "light truck" grade tires are designated "LTxxx/xxRxx".

best,
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Old 07-29-2010, 01:51 PM   #31
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yeah, figured u meant 6 but no guessing is allowed here...

the p/lt distinction we all learned WAS true...

before suv became massive sized people haulers and truck gained 2 more doors...

now it's all a bit LESS clear.

Tire Tech Information - Load Reduction of Euro- and P-Metric Tires on Light Trucks

Tire Tech - Tire Specs Explained

cheers
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Old 07-29-2010, 02:14 PM   #32
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The P and LT designations have gotten muddy. Checking carefully the loads a tire can take is important. P's have less load capacity than a like sized LT on a light truck, but it may not be significant for a specific application (see 2air's link above).

SUV and truck manufacturers have always tried to put the cheapest tires they can get on many of their products, probably figuring that most people don't notice. At one time SUV's with 4WD always came with LT M&S tires, but a lot now come with all season tires. Since most people never go off road or drive through snowdrifts, that works ok for many, but not for all. Using P tires may be another way to save money. The P's on our truck were M&S, but they were still cheap tires. I never dreamed Toyota would put P tires on a 4WD full sized 1/2 ton pickup, so I didn't look.

Gene
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Old 07-29-2010, 03:14 PM   #33
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Quote:
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...SUV and truck manufacturers have always tried to put the cheapest tires they can get on many of their products, probably figuring that most people don't notice...
the last generation (09s) DODGE RAM 2500-3500s

came with mich' high end tires often good for 90-100,000 miles.

ford sources a variety for any given vehicle using pirelli, mich', bfg, gy and conti'

none of these are 'cheap tires'

in addition, many trucks are ordered or equipped with an OPTIONAL wheel/tire package...

that FURTHER raises the tire included.
___________

for any vehicle that is HIGH volume PRODUCTION (which leaves out the toy' truck),

the tire sourcing issue becomes adequate SUPPLY...

some of the other good tire brands

don't have the capacity to produce enough tires for a new vehicle,

and the truck makers don't wanna be stalled by lack of rubber.
___________

buyers DO recognize brands, but may not recognize models...
___________

looking at 3/4-1 ton 2010 rams last month they all now have bfgs.

while the NON FLEET 1500s all had nice pirelli or mich tires.

cheers
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Old 07-29-2010, 07:47 PM   #34
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True that not all vehicles have cheap tires.

Our '06 4Runner came with Michelins, but they weren't LTX's, the tires they have sometimes used in the past, but something called the Cross Terrain. It looked sort of like a cross between all season and M&S, lasted for at least* 65,000 miles, always had great traction and plowed through snow effortlessly. Strangely, when it came time to get new tires, Michelin no longer made that tire in the 4Runner's size, so now it has LTX's.

Our '02 Tundra came with cheap tires too. The '02 Sequoia had come with cheap ones—I think—the previous owner had replaced them with Michelins sometime well before 30,000 miles. He only kept the Sequoia 18 months, put a lot of miles on it, and sold it.

Availability may be one answer to the OEM tires. It is sometimes said (could it be an old guy's myth?) that tire manufacturers sell not very good tires to vehicle manufacturers for a few dollars each so that the owner will replace them with the same tire. This has never made a lot of sense since when a tire doesn't last long, wouldn't most people buy a different brand? Lots of human behavior doesn't make sense, so….

Gene

*still had enough tread, but we would have had to get new tires in the next 6 months anyway, so why not then instead? When we sell the 4Runner it'll still have good tires on it. We gave the old ones to a relative who needed tires badly.
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