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Old 07-12-2017, 12:48 AM   #161
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Ohmman,

Thank you so much for your post(s) and letting us in on your travels and your adventure. You clearly had a great time and it really sounds like a fun trip. You have me thinking about all sorts of EV towing possibilities.

And FYI solar skeptics, I have solar on my trailer and do not have a generator and have never used a generator to charge. That's the entire point of my solar install. I almost never plug in, anywhere.
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Old 07-12-2017, 03:20 AM   #162
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Ditto. Thank you for venturing beyond the horizon of this "Flat Earth" to help us all discover that the Earth is indeed round, and that there are immeasurable life experiences available to those who are open to change.

Thank you for the willingness to have an adventure . . .


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Old 07-12-2017, 05:24 AM   #163
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Just a comment of those who say solar and EVs would fail without subsidies: Carbon based energy has certainly had it's share of subsidies.
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Old 07-12-2017, 10:36 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by thiel View Post
Not to poop on my beloved truck, but my Tundra gets only about 2 hours of towing per tank :-(
No poop here,
I get 4 hours of driving with at least a 1 hour reserve with my F-250 Diesels 34 GL tank, pulling a 30' Classic. And that on the Interstate with light traffic and in good weather the speed control set on 70 mph.
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Old 07-12-2017, 10:45 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by Wayne&Sam View Post
Just a comment of those who say solar and EVs would fail without subsidies: Carbon based energy has certainly had it's share of subsidies.
This red herring always gets thrown in when the EV is discussed.
Other than getting tax breaks on valuing reserves what kind of direct subsidies do the oil companies get ?
The entire EV manufacturing complex gets subsidies in addition to the buyer. Not enough that I am being fleeced to support malingerers on welfare now I am being fleeced to support some rich dudes indulgence in a $ 100 K Tesla.
All in the effort to support an industry that can't compete on a playing field.
And is completely politically motivated.
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Old 07-12-2017, 10:51 AM   #166
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Originally Posted by franklyfrank View Post
This red herring always gets thrown in when the EV is discussed.

Other than getting tax breaks on valuing reserves what kind of direct subsidies do the oil companies get ?

The entire EV manufacturing complex gets subsidies in addition to the buyer. Not enough that I am being fleeced to support malingerers on welfare now I am being fleeced to support some rich dudes indulgence in a $ 100 K Tesla.

All in the effort to support an industry that can't compete on a playing field.

And is completely politically motivated.

You are terribly misinformed, but seemingly happy with your head in the sand. Not sure what you can hear which would change your mind, so I'll stop bothering.
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Old 07-12-2017, 10:51 AM   #167
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Can you charge from a generator? Such as a Honda 2000? Just in case you failed to find a charging station.
Highly doubtful,

Even if it would be possible it would take a large generator that would further reduce your range dragging it around and take several hours.
Pulling a comfortably sized travel trailer with an EV is like trying to put a square peg in a round hole. You can whitle away at corners to get in in but it will never be a good fit.
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Old 07-12-2017, 12:21 PM   #168
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Originally Posted by franklyfrank View Post
This red herring always gets thrown in when the EV is discussed.
Other than getting tax breaks on valuing reserves what kind of direct subsidies do the oil companies get ?
The entire EV manufacturing complex gets subsidies in addition to the buyer. Not enough that I am being fleeced to support malingerers on welfare now I am being fleeced to support some rich dudes indulgence in a $ 100 K Tesla.
All in the effort to support an industry that can't compete on a playing field.
And is completely politically motivated.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/drillin.../#164dd54e6e1c
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Old 07-12-2017, 12:42 PM   #169
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Frankly, Frank, your point is well taken. Would you please consider giving it a rest, at least on this thread, as political discussions are off-limits here?

Also, ohmman started this thread to discuss HIS vehicle and HIS trailer, not to convince everyone to run out and get an electric tow vehicle, a discussion which has been worthwhile IMO, including your viewpoint.

The other EV thread might be a more general place for repeated negative views, but it is possible that both threads will be closed for further discussion if they become any more political IMO.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...le-169483.html

Thanks,

Peter

PS there is always the argue thread:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f161...ead-60297.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by franklyfrank View Post
No poop here,
I get 4 hours of driving with at least a 1 hour reserve with my F-250 Diesels 34 GL tank, pulling a 30' Classic. And that on the Interstate with light traffic and in good weather the speed control set on 70 mph.
Quote:
Originally Posted by franklyfrank View Post
This red herring always gets thrown in when the EV is discussed.
Other than getting tax breaks on valuing reserves what kind of direct subsidies do the oil companies get ?
The entire EV manufacturing complex gets subsidies in addition to the buyer. Not enough that I am being fleeced to support malingerers on welfare now I am being fleeced to support some rich dudes indulgence in a $ 100 K Tesla.
All in the effort to support an industry that can't compete on a playing field.
And is completely politically motivated.
Quote:
Originally Posted by franklyfrank View Post
Highly doubtful,

Even if it would be possible it would take a large generator that would further reduce your range dragging it around and take several hours.
Pulling a comfortably sized travel trailer with an EV is like trying to put a square peg in a round hole. You can whitle away at corners to get in in but it will never be a good fit.
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Old 07-12-2017, 01:04 PM   #170
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Speaking of my rig, one thing that did crop up was my hitch adapter. Tesla uses a Bosal-made removable receiver on the Model X. It consists of a bumper bar with a receptacle for a hitch adapter. This inserts upwards into the vehicle and is locked in place with a shaft and ball bearings.

Tesla and Bosal didn't give guidance on using weight distribution, but their weight bearing guidance is quite strict. I went off of the experience of another couple who had used an Equal-i-zer hitch for a long trip successfully and adopted the same setup. However, midway through the trip, I noticed some play in the adapter. A Tesla ranger met me in Spokane and agreed to send a new adapter to our next campsite. This one fit very tightly again, but within a few towing days had developed the same play. I was quite uncomfortable with it but it did last and worked successfully through the trip.

Now that I'm home, I've purchased an aftermarket Draw-Tite hitch from etrailer.com. It is a one-piece welded solution that has a higher tongue weight rating and will give me a lot more peace of mind. It arrived early this week and I plan to dedicate half a day to install it later this week or weekend.
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Old 07-12-2017, 02:17 PM   #171
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Some of us may remember the EV-1 automobile in California. It was a very successful project that ended up with the complete destruction of those vehicles. We are almost full circle to a totally electric vehicle from GM as well as Tesla and other manufacturers are hustling to get into the new game.

The work on the hydrogen power cells continues and, if they become commercially viable, perhaps would allow fossil fueled electric power generation stations to be retired and thereafter nuclear stations as well. Who knows for certain?

When I acquired our first Airstream, we also bought the pair of 2,000 watt Honda generators. Our 2013 25FB International Serenity had a single 155 watt dealer installed solar panel. It was incapable of recharging the two stock Interstate batteries from the furnace operation the previous night.

We still have those two Honda units, just in case they are needed and they have been upgraded to the GenConnex propane only fuel system. Both of our current trailers have the largest solar panel array we could install (nine 100 panels on the roof of the 2014 31' Classic and five 100 panels on the roof of the 2015 23D International Serenity) along with a lithium battery in each trailer (600 amp-hour in the Classic and a 300 amp-hour in the 23D).

At this point in my life, I do not see a totally electric tow vehicle for our Classic (scales 9,200 pounds) but the 23D at 6,068 pounds might be a possibility given I currently tow it with a 2007 Mercedes ML320 CDI with a V6 3.0L turbo-charged diesel at 55 mph max. The ML320 currently has 168,400 miles on the odometer.

Having a generator along in the Mercedes or the pair in the Ram 2500HD Cummins is like carrying a comprehensive first aid kit and multiple flashlights. They are there if needed.
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Old 07-12-2017, 02:35 PM   #172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spenfolder View Post
And FYI solar skeptics, I have solar on my trailer and do not have a generator and have never used a generator to charge. That's the entire point of my solar install. I almost never plug in, anywhere.
With solar, you can camp and never plug in. I didn't plug in when I had a tent either, but I had to compromise my wants. I'm skeptical you could run one AC unit off your solar/battery arrangement.
Someday, we'll all be driving electric cars. But not today.
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Old 07-12-2017, 06:09 PM   #173
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Hahaha, I raise you your solar air conditioner and call. There are already folks out there with large lithium banks, big inverters and lots of solar who are doing exactly that. Technomadia did this quite some time ago, and many others have done so since. Let's get back to talking about Airstreams being towed via electric vehicles instead of wasting time in the weeds on other topics, shall we?
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Old 07-12-2017, 06:30 PM   #174
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Thanks again for a great thread. Do you have an owner's manual, or maybe on online version, that sets forth the trailer towing specifications and limits for the X? You mentioned a while ago about the tongue weight limit of 500, which (as you kindly pointed out) would rule out our FC20.

I would like to read the specs in more detail, so thank you for any guidance you might have. In particular it would be interesting to see if they have any limits for weight distributing hitches.

Peter


Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmman View Post
. . .
Now that I'm home, I've purchased an aftermarket Draw-Tite hitch from etrailer.com. It is a one-piece welded solution that has a higher tongue weight rating and will give me a lot more peace of mind. It arrived early this week and I plan to dedicate half a day to install it later this week or weekend.
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Old 07-12-2017, 11:17 PM   #175
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Thanks again for a great thread. Do you have an owner's manual, or maybe on online version, that sets forth the trailer towing specifications and limits for the X? You mentioned a while ago about the tongue weight limit of 500, which (as you kindly pointed out) would rule out our FC20.

I would like to read the specs in more detail, so thank you for any guidance you might have. In particular it would be interesting to see if they have any limits for weight distributing hitches.
https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/...america_en.pdf

Page 68.

They give no guidance one way or the other on WD hitches. I spoke with some engineers there, and while they wouldn't give confirmation one way or the other, we did agree that since there is no unibody (there's a "skateboard" frame), it's probably safer than on most other vehicles. Hands on experience says that the vehicle handles very well with WD, but obviously the stock hitch has the issue I posted above.

Hope this helps.
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Old 07-13-2017, 12:57 AM   #176
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Originally Posted by franklyfrank View Post
This red herring always gets thrown in when the EV is discussed.
Other than getting tax breaks on valuing reserves what kind of direct subsidies do the oil companies get ?
The entire EV manufacturing complex gets subsidies in addition to the buyer. Not enough that I am being fleeced to support malingerers on welfare now I am being fleeced to support some rich dudes indulgence in a $ 100 K Tesla.
All in the effort to support an industry that can't compete on a playing field.
And is completely politically motivated.
Global subsidies for the fossil fuel industry were estimated at $5.3 trillion in 2015 or approximately 6.5% of global GDP. They include:

Direct financial transfers – grants to producers; grants to consumers; low-interest or preferential loans to producers.
Preferential tax treatments – rebates or exemption on royalties, duties, producer levies and tariffs; tax credit; accelerated depreciation allowances on energy supply equipment.
Trade restrictions – quota, technical restrictions and trade embargoes.
Energy-related services provided by government at less than full cost – direct investment in energy infrastructure; public research and development.
Regulation of the energy sector – demand guarantees and mandated deployment rates; price controls; market-access restrictions; preferential planning consent and controls over access to resources.
Failure to impose external costs – environmental externality costs; energy security risks and price volatility costs.
Depletion Allowance – allows a deduction from gross income of up to ~27% for the depletion of exhaustible resources (oil, gas, minerals).
(Source:Wikipedia)

You're hardly being fleeced. The most obvious direct subsidy to the purchaser of a BEV is the $7500 federal tax credit. This isn't money being taken away from you, it's money that the OP and others like him who purchase a BEV get to KEEP rather than pay to the government in taxes. I may be going out on a limb here but I would have thought that someone with your apparent political perspective would at least appreciate that.

In any event, I'm not sure why anyone would feel the need to troll a thread like this with negativity. Kudos to ohmman for exploring a different path and choosing to share his experience with the rest of us.
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Old 07-13-2017, 03:50 AM   #177
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Could we please keep the political discussion off this thread, so that it does not get closed down by a moderator? The other EV thread is a good place for such discussion IMO. Thanks.

Thank you ohmman for the link, I will check it out in a few days. We are in a SP with limited Internet.

Peter
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Old 07-13-2017, 09:58 AM   #178
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Could we please keep the political discussion off this thread, so that it does not get closed down by a moderator? The other EV thread is a good place for such discussion IMO. Thanks.

Peter
For my part, apologies.
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Old 07-13-2017, 10:22 AM   #179
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Originally Posted by OTRA15 View Post
Frankly, Frank, your point is well taken. Would you please consider giving it a rest, at least on this thread, as political discussions are off-limits here?

Also, ohmman started this thread to discuss HIS vehicle and HIS trailer, not to convince everyone to run out and get an electric tow vehicle, a discussion which has been worthwhile IMO, including your viewpoint.

The other EV thread might be a more general place for repeated negative views, but it is possible that both threads will be closed for further discussion if they become any more political IMO.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...le-169483.html

Thanks,

Peter

PS there is always the argue thread:

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f161...ead-60297.html
Absolutely,
I will give it a rest as soon as the responses will not be calling me and others Ludites and Flat earthers , because we do not share their enthusiasm for the EV. And it seems that that is always where the discussion ends up should some one be critical. Facts never seem to matter.
In any event this subject has been beat to death.
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Old 07-13-2017, 10:49 AM   #180
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In our 23D, the Magnum hybrid MSH-3012 converter will draw the necessary power from the 300 amp-hour lithium battery to augment the power of the 2,000,watt Honda generator to start the 13,500 BTU air conditioner during the power in-rush. The five 100 watt solar panels keep the battery topped up.

The 600 amp-hour lithium battery in our Classic can actually start and run either the 15,000 BTU or the 13,500 BTU air conditioner for an hour or so with no shore power or generator attached.

As battery technology improves, the need for the generators may fade away.

This particular tow vehicle, by what I read, still needs a wall outlet somewhere and the range is still relatively short and requires detailed planning for each day's drive. But this range limitation will surely improve over the next five years.
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