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Old 01-06-2017, 06:25 PM   #101
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Originally Posted by Glenritas View Post
Diesel /electric is nice but so old school .
That said, the market already has a small gas turbine engine that would be a great choice to drive a generator.
I think it is currently being used as a turbine / electric to power some systems.

As for me I finally got a Kia Soul EV to give my Scion XB a rest. The best part is I haven't had to buy gas for it for all my local running around

Now if I want to leave town I have several other ICE choices to use.

If I want to pull a trailer I have 3 TV's to choose from.

Opp's , am I starting to sound a bit pretentious?

I guess it just boils down to the right tool for the job.
As if Electric Cars are not old school :-) ?
They have been around as long as the ICE just hasn't been competitive.
Get it working where it can get full charge and range in less than 30 minutes, install charging islands at all existing filling stations than you have something that's fully competitive from the service perspective.
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Old 01-06-2017, 06:34 PM   #102
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If you're working they make great sense. Everyone has to commute. And the technology is creating a whole bunch of very good jobs. There are quite a few places in my area making parts for Tesla (not to mention a few others).

I'm one of the exceptions, commuting in my Superduty, but hats off to
technology and progress!
No you are not :-) ! I love driving my Superduty 6.7 diesel with or without the AS. I used to enjoy driving my F-150 Ecoboost a lot but F-250 is a different animal for sure.
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Old 01-07-2017, 09:58 AM   #103
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Originally Posted by franklyfrank View Post
As if Electric Cars are not old school :-) ?
They have been around as long as the ICE just hasn't been competitive.
Get it working where it can get full charge and range in less than 30 minutes, install charging islands at all existing filling stations than you have something that's fully competitive from the service perspective.

Old is correct. The collaboration of Edison and Ford to make electric cars a reality circa WWI is a lesson in patent law problems. Good reason to discontinue enforcement of same after five years. ICE should have been rural or cross country.
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Old 01-07-2017, 10:37 AM   #104
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I'm going to look into that Ford / Edison issue, sounds interesting.
My son feels that Edison snaked Tesla pretty badly over some inventions they were working on at the time.

But a little history of the electric car is interesting.
Ferdinand Porsche developed the first practical hub motor, that ended up being used in a successful hybrid car, around 1900.

http://press.porsche.com/news/release.php?id=642

It is true that the ICE did take over in those early days and has carried us unimaginably far in transport and convience. But times and numbers of population are changing and it's time to be developing an alternative that can help, a long side ICE, to carry us into the future.

Cheers Richard

PS don't take my support of the development of alternitive transport as a sign that I'm ready to give up bombing around the mountains in my old Porsche. Or that I'm planning on parking my classic motor home. Just happy to see us moving in new directions too.
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Old 01-07-2017, 12:41 PM   #105
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Oh man

Thanks for starting this thread. I have really enjoyed reading it. Towing with a Tessa really would be an adventure and quite challenging. I am intrigued by it I guess the same way I am intrigued by boondocking.

Dan
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Old 01-07-2017, 01:45 PM   #106
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A little bit of fun and highly obscure electric car history lives on at Union College, in upstate New York: a 1914 Detroit Electric car once owned by Charles Steinmetz.

https://www.union.edu/events/commenc...steinmetz-car/
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Old 01-07-2017, 03:09 PM   #107
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My favorite Steinmetz story. He fixed a large industrial power generator with a shorted coil for Henry Ford and sent him a bill for $10,000.
Ford balked at paying and asked for a detailed invoice.
Steinemtz sent a detailed invoice:

Placing chalkmark on generator $1.00
Knowing where to place chalkmark $9999.00
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Old 01-08-2017, 10:51 AM   #108
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tevake View Post
I'm going to look into that Ford / Edison issue, sounds interesting.
My son feels that Edison snaked Tesla pretty badly over some inventions they were working on at the time.

But a little history of the electric car is interesting.
Ferdinand Porsche developed the first practical hub motor, that ended up being used in a successful hybrid car, around 1900.

http://press.porsche.com/news/release.php?id=642

It is true that the ICE did take over in those early days and has carried us unimaginably far in transport and convience. But times and numbers of population are changing and it's time to be developing an alternative that can help, a long side ICE, to carry us into the future.

Cheers Richard

PS don't take my support of the development of alternitive transport as a sign that I'm ready to give up bombing around the mountains in my old Porsche. Or that I'm planning on parking my classic motor home. Just happy to see us moving in new directions too.
Back in 2006 I read a great analytical piece on this subject in the Scientific American. The trust of it was that as the way we produce and use energy in the future will be diverse and not one means becoming dominant over another. The government needs to stop picking winners an losers and let the market evolve as it surely will when the individual investors money is at risk.
The longer I live the more convinced I become that the author was right on the mark.
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Old 01-08-2017, 11:01 AM   #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by franklyfrank View Post
Back in 2006 I read a great analytical piece on this subject in the Scientific American. The trust of it was that as the way we produce and use energy in the future will be diverse and not one means becoming dominant over another. The government needs to stop picking winners an losers and let the market evolve as it surely will when the individual investors money is at risk.
The longer I live the more convinced I become that the author was right on the mark.
The government always has and always will subsidize energy, manufacturing, and transportation infrastructure. Whether it's taxes to build roads, tax breaks or transit taxes it's a fact of life, always was.
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Old 01-08-2017, 12:14 PM   #110
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So.. back on topic..

I have been paying attention to some of the minutiae and their potential impact on aerodynamics. I added a bumper (and segment protectors) to my 22' Sport at delivery. I noticed the bumper extends beyond where I would expect the air to flow, and that it is concave - facing the travel direction. Ideas to mitigate potential aerodynamic detriment there? The thoughts I've had so far are to fill the bumper segment with some sort of formed plastic, to create a connection with the body of the trailer with a similar material, or to cut off the bumper ends where they extend beyond the solid portion that connects to the trailer.

Sorry I don't have a photo to include. It's pouring rain right now. I'm assuming that most of you with bumpers know what I'm talking about, though.

The other thing that is going to impact me is towing mirrors. I'm looking at the Dometic Milenco Aero3 mirrors. They have a pretty large frontal area. I plan on installing a rear camera on the trailer but realize the limitations there. Would a camera+hotspot stick-on be enough for my 22' Sport? Remember that it is the only narrow body Airstream, so it doesn't stick out much past the sides of my TV.

Clearly I don't want to sacrifice safety for range, but if I can approximate the same result with less aerodynamic effect, I'm all over it.
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Old 01-08-2017, 01:16 PM   #111
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Maybe ping the folks at Tessla about aerodynamic towing mirrors? They are sorta kinda pushing the idea, so it would be fun to get them on board.
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Old 01-08-2017, 03:43 PM   #112
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Aero 2s

Try the Aero 2s. They are smaller and therefore present less frontal area.

A form fitting configuration would be best if you can get someone to build them. The mirrors on the Tesla were not by chance lifted from another platform. If so, the sales forecast might be more interesting to the manufacturer.

In the interim, check out the Aero 2s. They have served us well. Pat
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Old 01-08-2017, 06:29 PM   #113
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Towing with Electricity and a Model X

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Originally Posted by ohmman View Post
So.. back on topic..



I have been paying attention to some of the minutiae and their potential impact on aerodynamics. I added a bumper (and segment protectors) to my 22' Sport at delivery. I noticed the bumper extends beyond where I would expect the air to flow, and that it is concave - facing the travel direction. Ideas to mitigate potential aerodynamic detriment there? The thoughts I've had so far are to fill the bumper segment with some sort of formed plastic, to create a connection with the body of the trailer with a similar material, or to cut off the bumper ends where they extend beyond the solid portion that connects to the trailer.



Sorry I don't have a photo to include. It's pouring rain right now. I'm assuming that most of you with bumpers know what I'm talking about, though.



The other thing that is going to impact me is towing mirrors. I'm looking at the Dometic Milenco Aero3 mirrors. They have a pretty large frontal area. I plan on installing a rear camera on the trailer but realize the limitations there. Would a camera+hotspot stick-on be enough for my 22' Sport? Remember that it is the only narrow body Airstream, so it doesn't stick out much past the sides of my TV.



Clearly I don't want to sacrifice safety for range, but if I can approximate the same result with less aerodynamic effect, I'm all over it.

The aero improvement will in no way overcome the deficiency in safety.

In other words, there is no substitute for big glass. None. Bigger is always better.

A camera is handy, and "may" provide some extra info. But the format is different. The brain has to switch gears to interpret it vs mirrors (which itself is an interpretation).

Most big trucks I drive are shorter in OAL than my pickup & TT. But all the sightlines to rear are better with the semi due to all the mirrors.

I removed the factory towing mirrors on my Dodge and installed larger aftermarket CIPA. I'll probably add Grand Aero in convex. At this point there is no measurable aero penalty (they're far worse in shape even when retracted; the Dodge pieces were fairly aero to start with, unlike Ford or GM).

There are two problems to solve via the mirrors: who is next to you, and who is overtaking you. Proximity and distance. One needs big glass for both.

Not all towing is under daylight ideal conditions. But this problem is a damned good reason to never drive into the dark especially given RV mirrors.

When split seconds count . . . .
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Old 01-08-2017, 06:39 PM   #114
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I tow my 22FB with a Honda Ridgeline and stock mirrors. This Airstream is not much wider than the Ridgeline. I can't see who's tailgating me but I don't have any other problems.

I think the X is wider than the Ridgeline.
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Old 01-08-2017, 07:18 PM   #115
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Rear View Waggle

Quote:
Originally Posted by ohmman View Post
So.. back on topic..

Clearly I don't want to sacrifice safety for range, but if I can approximate the same result with less aerodynamic effect, I'm all over it.
Are you familiar with "The Waggle", a common technique with TT towing? It is a bit of a mild s-turn within your lane. Starting close to the left side of your lane and then steer to the right side and then back to the left. As you start the manoeuvre back to your left you can see who is close behind you in your driver's mirror who is otherwise not visible in your mirrors. It is safe, but may require some practice.
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Old 01-09-2017, 02:10 PM   #116
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Camera is also a very helpful tool. It is easy to install and options vary from cell phone solutions to dedicated hard wire configurations. We installed a camera with a rear window suction cup, wireless communication, and a dedicated battery for power. Took a couple of hours, mostly to find a suction cup. Wiring is not hidden and a dedicated install will replace in our future. Biggest problem is night use and condensation/rain drops on the window.

Do not use it all the time, but it's nice to check aft to back a few feet, to verify who is following, and how close. Don't use it for backing into sites - use a spotter.

Travel safe - Pat
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Old 01-11-2017, 02:02 PM   #117
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I have factory standard mirrors on our 2014 Tundra and installed a Voyager Wireless camera on the back of our 25' Airstream. I keep the wireless camera on when we are driving and find that between this and the Tundra mirrors there are no "blind spots". The camera also works very well at night.

And of course when at a campsite, either backing in or pulling out, I am at ease knowing that there are no children, pets, or obstructions to hit (though I still get out and check multiple times when backing in anywhere to make sure!). I also carry clip-on mirrors for the Tundra in case the Voyager Wireless camera ever stops functioning unexpectedly. I feel very safe towing with this setup.
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Old 01-11-2017, 05:22 PM   #118
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You can get OE style telescoping towing mirrors for $115 each on discountautomirrors.com.


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Old 01-14-2017, 11:04 PM   #119
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Finally - the first outing is tomorrow. It is a short trip without any charging requirements - 50 miles out and back, and we are only staying a single night. The location is a beach with dry camping, so there are no hookups for the trailer or for the Model X. If, for some bizarre reason, I find my state of charge to be worrisome, there is a Tesla Supercharger midway home from the beach. Generally speaking, that's just a distant Plan B. We are mostly focused on not forgetting anything imperative and just having a good time at the shore.

I'm hopeful my stock Group 24 battery will be able to keep the furnace running on low all night. We've got extra blankets anyway, just in case.

Wish me luck!
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Old 01-14-2017, 11:07 PM   #120
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Enjoy your trip and let us know how it goes!
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