Towing with Chrysler 300 AWD

[Road Ruler]

Originally Posted by Roxy

I have read several posts on people towing with sedans, small vans, Suv's Etc, as well read Andys ( Can-Am RV) reports on sedans he has used and tested and the 300 comes highly recommended. I have never been a truck lover for several reasons, so we are hoping to make the switch to an A/S and smaller tow vehicle in the next year or so, hoping to here from owners using sedans to tow in order to make an informed decision.

Thanks all for your comments!

We have been very happy with our mid sized sedan/Can Am set up. No problems worth talking about in 200hrs/seven years of towing. Our G35 has 210,000 klm's on it and it still drives like a new car.

PS.... on Tuesday it will be getting a rear wheel bearing replaced. No need to set off any alarm bells though. The Infiniti line of vehicles has been hard on rear wheel bearing since the get go whether used as a TV or not.

The bearing will cost $200. but the money we have saved by driving and towing with a vehicle that gets over 25 IMP MPG solo has saved us 1,000's of $$$'s in the 7 years we have had the car.

[aircooled4]

With physics and common sense aside, a county deputy in WI told me they dont look at vehicles and towing from a weight perspective... they dont have the equipment to weigh said vehicles...apparently WI has 'Motor Vehicle Inspection' officers..most of whom are looking for tractor/trailers who are over weight...thats where revenue id generated.

[Road Ruler]

Originally Posted by Phoenix

I would not want to be driving a passenger car with brakes designed only to stop that vehicle alone, going down I-70 either way from the Eisenhower tunnel, and have the trailer brakes fail.

Braking efficiency can be a complex subject. There is no doubt in my mind that our modern car's high tech braking system (with trailer in tow) would out perform the brakes/braking system on lets say these 70's/80's Chev Impala's....

[carl2591]

neat old stuff for sure.. I remember my mom had a impala just like that one. We used it to pull a coleman popup camper for several years. If i remember that car had a 350 engine aka 5.7L and built like a tank.

I was wondering about a chev s-10 blazer or the GMC jimmy for a tow vehicle of something in the 29 to 31 ft range.

I was on the hensley website and ordered the DVD they send out.. its a classic, and was showing a '97? Lincoln towncar pulling a 3 axle AS i suspect was the 34 ft unit. also there was chev astro van, which is same frame etc as s-10, that was used for pulling a SOB type unit not sure the brand.


SO my question is any one using these type vehicles, 4.3L s-10/jimmy to pull SOB or AS of what size, weight and how is it working out.. any issues or problems you have experienced.??

[mstephens]

It would be great to have sensible sedans available for towing again. Airstream designed its trailers to be towed easily by the family sedan, and they built a big reputation on that. But to hear many people talk, they don't believe the Airstream design, and instead insist that a massive truck is needed to safely tow an Airstream. I think the company knew what it was talking about in spite of the naysayers.

Big trucks are far more profitable than any sedans. Selling more trucks is the key goal of all the big car companies because of this much better profit. Maybe they reduce tow ratings on sedans to help move more trucks?

As to safety, it would be interesting to look at all the breakdown. I know there certainly are plenty of accidents involving big trucks, just like there are involving cars. I see a lot of comments that warn people wanting to tow with a sedan (like Airstream used to recommend) being 'painted' as irresponsible people risking the lives of everyone. I think it's a bit of a reach. Looking at that picture of the blue Impala hauling a three axle Airstream is delightful.

Super big, super high, monster-style big wheel trucks are popular as pizza and the country is hooked on them. People get them to just drive to work. That's cool - to each his own. But I don't think that fad or style should be conflated with, "how to tow an Airstream." I'm glad people are spending more time looking into how to tow with sedans. People like Andy Thompson. I think it just might lead to an economical way to tow.

[MrUKToad]

Originally Posted by mstephens

It would be great to have sensible sedans available for towing again. Airstream designed its trailers to be towed easily by the family sedan, and they built a big reputation on that. But to hear many people talk, they don't believe the Airstream design, and instead insist that a massive truck is needed to safely tow an Airstream. I think the company knew what it was talking about in spite of the naysayers.

Big trucks are far more profitable than any sedans. Selling more trucks is the key goal of all the big car companies because of this much better profit. Maybe they reduce tow ratings on sedans to help move more trucks?

As to safety, it would be interesting to look at all the breakdown. I know there certainly are plenty of accidents involving big trucks, just like there are involving cars. I see a lot of comments that warn people wanting to tow with a sedan (like Airstream used to recommend) being 'painted' as irresponsible people risking the lives of everyone. I think it's a bit of a reach. Looking at that picture of the blue Impala hauling a three axle Airstream is delightful.

Super big, super high, monster-style big wheel trucks are popular as pizza and the country is hooked on them. People get them to just drive to work. That's cool - to each his own. But I don't think that fad or style should be conflated with, "how to tow an Airstream." I'm glad people are spending more time looking into how to tow with sedans. People like Andy Thompson. I think it just might lead to an economical way to tow.

Spot on. I wish I'd written that.

I've seen both the 300 and the Charger hooked up to some big Airstreams and they really do work. If I didn't have my Sienna, I'd have gone for a Charger myself because not only do they work, they look good out in front. It'll be a few years before I need to replace the Sienna but I'll be looking at sedans when the time comes.

[polarlyse]

Not to put myself into the middle of this debate but I would like to make a comment on the new sedans vs. the older ones regarding towing. The older sedans, like shown in the Hensley video, were based on a structural chassis. New designs are based on the
uni-body construction. Multiple layers of sheet metal welded and shaped with suspension parts attached front & rear. Trailer hitches used to be attached to the chassis now they are attached to layered sheet metal. So older designs using the heavy steel chassis with the body bolted down to it were able to tow with the stresses distributed throughout the frame. Newer designs may be re-inforced to handle the stress of hitches bolted on but I find it useless to compare todays mid & larger sedans to what was seen in those older advertisements. They are, simply put, not the same. The engineers can argue the safety/structural, issues I am not going there but just look at each for what it is.

See ya on the road sometime.

[vswingfield]

Originally Posted by polarlyse

Not to put myself into the middle of this debate but I would like to make a comment on the new sedans vs. the older ones regarding towing. The older sedans, like shown in the Hensley video, were based on a structural chassis. New designs are based on the
uni-body construction. Multiple layers of sheet metal welded and shaped with suspension parts attached front & rear. Trailer hitches used to be attached to the chassis now they are attached to layered sheet metal. So older designs using the heavy steel chassis with the body bolted down to it were able to tow with the stresses distributed throughout the frame. Newer designs may be re-inforced to handle the stress of hitches bolted on but I find it useless to compare todays mid & larger sedans to what was seen in those older advertisements. They are, simply put, not the same. The engineers can argue the safety/structural, issues I am not going there but just look at each for what it is.

See ya on the road sometime.

I agree. The older sedans have more in common with trucks than today's sedans.

[slowmover]

Except that unitized structure (unibody) cars are built more strongly than body-on-frame. A Chrysler product car of the 1950's - 1970's was a great deal lighter and stronger -- and a better tow vehicle -- than any Ford or GM. Plenty of other advantages to them as well (brakes, transmission, engine). They were disproportionally represented among TV's of that era due to this.

Hitches were custom-built. Better than the off-the-shelf stuff of today. And the OEM's provided basics for installers on the how-to. A unibody car -- with a reasonably sized TT -- still did not weigh as much as a BOF car even with WD hitch and WD applied in some instances.

The current Charger/300 is based on the Mercedes W123 . . hardly a "weak" vehicle.

This is not the first time we've covered this. Nor is it at all in line with historical experience.

And todays cars are just flat better built.

The correctly-made hitch is the question to cover.



.

[Ganaraska]

You have to go back to the early thirties to find a car with a real strong, bridge like frame. Back then the bodies were made out of a wooden framework with metal panels tacked on, and all the strength was in the frame. A typical frame had a 7" deep C channel side rail.

As soon as the all steel bodies became popular, from the mid thirties on, they depended more on the strength of the body and less on the frame. Frames became skimpier, 3 or 4" deep, made of metal half as thick as the old ones. But tied to the body with many rubber insulated mounts.

The strength was in the body, not the frame. The frame was only there to hold the engine, trans, front suspension and rear axle, and isolate road noise and engine vibration from the body.

Unitized construction just finished the job of integrating the body and frame. In fact most unit construction designs had a front sub frame rubber mounted to the body, to isolate engine and suspension vibrations and for no other reason.

Strength of body on frame vs unitized construction is a function of the design, either can be equally strong.

One time I was in a junk yard and asked the guy who operated the crusher, what car was strongest and hardest to squash. He answered without hesitating, "an old Dodge".

Dodges and other Chrysler products featured unitized construction since 1960.

[slowmover]

Unibody Imperials of the 1960's & '70's were/are banned from many demo derbys due to being indestructible. They'd literally just tear through the opposition and circle around for more.

.

[RUMSHIP]

So when is one of you ( supporters of this thread ) going to open this type of business in the states and rake in the cash setting up these type of towing setups?

[panheaddale]

Everybody thinks that the weight ratings from the factory are a descretionary figure you can just ignore. All I can say is tell the D.O.T officer that when you get pulled over and get a substantial fine or they even park you beside the road until you get a vehicle that is rated to tow your camper. I tow for a living from the manufactures to the dealers ( yes they are sob) but D.O.T. doesn't mess around. You can try to stand and tell him such and such set your TV up or you have all this high end weight hitch and every other trick in the book and he won't care. Also if you are involved in a wreck even without injuries you could be sued and all this guessing and debating will get you nowhere in court. Hope this gives you something to think about. Just remember "BECAUSE YOU CAN PULL DOESN'T MEAN YOU CAN STOP IT OR CONTROL IT"

[dkottum]

Originally Posted by Roxy

Hi all, back on the subject of towing a 31' A/S with a 300 or Charger, I have read several posts about the legalities of towing over the tow rating, my question is are there any members that have had issues with being stopped and checked as well with the proper hitch (hensley) and modification to the mounted hitch on the tow vehicle is the vehicle considered legal to tow the 31' A/S?

Same old stuff, 32 replies and no one answered the op's question. So if there has been no one stopped, is the o.p. breaking a law towing a 31' Airstream with Chrysler 300 or Charger (aside from commercial operators)?

doug k

[Road Ruler]

Originally Posted by panheaddale

Just remember "BECAUSE YOU CAN PULL DOESN'T MEAN YOU CAN STOP IT OR CONTROL IT"

A good point that is brought up many times.

If you do some research you will find that many/most of the talked about pro set up TV's/Airstreams excel when it comes to braking and control.

[SteveH]

The law in these states is "manufactured stated gross weight":

Arizona
California
Connecticut
Florida
Kentucky
Louisiana
Nebraska
New Mexico
North Dakota
Utah
Quebec
Yukon

It appears to me there is a trend towards this because this is the first time I've been able to find it, and obviously you will be illegal in these states if you exceed "manufacturerd stated gross weight".

Now, the question is, will you be stopped and weighed, or will you only be weighed after an incident or accident on the road, but in any event if you are found towing over weight, you are violating the law at least in the states noted above.

If you want to know the laws in the other states, or my source, here it is:
http://www.towingworld.com/articles/TowingLaws.htm

[panheaddale]

YES, you are breaking the law.D.O.T. weight rules don,t just apply to commercial vehicles. That being said you generally don,t see them after anyone other than commercially driven vehicles. Yes the 300 or the charger will tow the airstream down the road, and with good trailer brake set up it will stop it,but if you have a failure in the system somwhere you are going to be putting your life, your families life, and possibly my life (if I happened to be on the road near you)or someone elses life in harms way. IMHO that risk is not worth it. The airstream were towed by big sedans back in the day. The FRAMES WERE THE STRENGTH OF THE CAR. They were as bullet proof then as a pickup was, but you had cars weighing 4,000 pounds and built like a tank. You could wreck one of them and repair it now day the cars and small suv everyone wants to tow with if you wreck one they just crumple up and the insurance company totals them.

[panheaddale]

Originally Posted by MrUKToad

I'd agree with pretty much all that Bill M says so I don't think that the OP needs to have any concerns regarding legality.

Manufacturers' tow ratings are such nebulous figures that would never stand up to any scrutiny in a court. Even the new SAE towing standards don't measure up because they cannot take account of any modifications you may make to your tow vehicle to improve its towing performance.

Where ratings are simple measures of force, such as a weight on an axle or tire then there might be some room for enforcement but tow ratings? No, not enforceable until someone documents exactly how said rating was both derived and tested.

Weight rating in Canada might be just some magical number that is pulled out of a hat and written down on whatever whim the manufacturer wanted to write down that day but down here in the good ole USA manufacture weight rating are used and enforced on a daily basis. They are used so people will know whether a vehicle is capable or and is legal to tow the load you are going to be towing

[MrUKToad]

Originally Posted by SteveH

The law in these states is "manufactured stated gross weight":

Arizona
California
Connecticut
Florida
Kentucky
Louisiana
Nebraska
New Mexico
North Dakota
Utah
Quebec
Yukon

It appears to me there is a trend towards this because this is the first time I've been able to find it, and obviously you will be illegal in these states if you exceed "manufacturerd stated gross weight".

Now, the question is, will you be stopped and weighed, or will you only be weighed after an incident or accident on the road, but in any event if you are found towing over weight, you are violating the law at least in the states noted above.

If you want to know the laws in the other states, or my source, here it is:
http://www.towingworld.com/articles/TowingLaws.htm

Steve,

You're absolutely right, the stated gross weight as indicated on your door pillar sticker is indeed a finite measure and one easily enforced (if those in authority wish to). I trust that you're not confusing the stated gross weight with the manufacturer's tow rating, though, as the two are not the same thing.

[SteveH]

Originally Posted by MrUKToad

Steve,

You're absolutely right, the stated gross weight as indicated on your door pillar sticker is indeed a finite measure and one easily enforced (if those in authority wish to). I trust that you're not confusing the stated gross weight with the manufacturer's tow rating, though, as the two are not the same thing.

I'm not confusing the two.

I've asked you this before, and you never responded.....have you actually weighed your minivan loaded and hooked to the Airstream, and was it under the manufacurer's gross weight?