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BearScream · 09-25-2015, 12:28 PM

Unless I missed a thread, there seems to be stunned silence here over the VW scandal.

The news has been saturated lately with the VW TDI diesel emissions cheat. Some of us, like me, are using one of these (Jetta, Passat, Golf....) as a TV. For me the Jetta TDI was perfect for my 20' AS, and yes, it was set up by CanAm.

If there isn't already, it seems there ought to be a discussion on what the affected are going to do as this unfolds: TV plans, alternatives, reactions to any future VW conpensation offers for a start, or maybe just to commiserate.

Ted S. · 09-25-2015, 12:39 PM

Buy one quick before they abandon the defeater.

Echelon73 · 09-25-2015, 12:41 PM

I have a 2011 Golf TDi. Mine clearly falls right in the middle of the "scandle." I do not tow with it, but I have been following the thread on the tdiclub forum. There is a ton of commiserating going on there. I'm very curious how all of this is going to shake out. Even though my car has 162K miles on it, I was planning on keeping it for a long time. I'm a bit nervous what their "fix" will do to the long term reliability of the car. The fix could steal power and fuel economy as well. That could be problematic if you use it for towing.

BearScream · 09-25-2015, 12:42 PM

Funny, but it raises the point. If they remove the defeat, will the vehicle have enough torque, hp and mileage to do the job.

cwf · 09-25-2015, 12:46 PM

Sorry this is happening... Heads are rolling, but that won't fix the problem. To me, those "involved" should clean up their mess. After all, they know where the skeletons are.

Rumor has it, VW is buying back all affected TDIs. Probably after deducting for mileage. They can sell them to China... After all, they breathe different air there than we do!!!

Hope it settles out, I hate to see the "working folks"'on the line who "followed orders" be impacted while the "management" gets fatter.

jcl · 09-25-2015, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BearScream

Funny, but it raises the point. If they remove the defeat, will the vehicle have enough torque, hp and mileage to do the job.

Largest likely impact will be on fuel efficiency.

The question becomes, does the new (clean) fuel efficiency meet the claimed figures, just not the real world numbers owners were getting while polluting? Or does it fail to meet those claims?

Jeff

jcl · 09-25-2015, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cwf

Rumor has it, VW is buying back all affected TDIs.

All 11 million of them?

BearScream · 09-25-2015, 01:37 PM

Tnanks for the thought, CWF.

Buyback, perhaps. It may take some time for VW to figure out how to get out of the mess with minimum damage.

papegardens · 09-25-2015, 01:44 PM

Right now we're sitting in a VW showroom awaiting what they'll give us in trade for our 2012 TDI. We tow with an Xterra but as LONGtime/multi-model VW owners trading to a gas version before no trades are taken, as is now the policy of the Temple, TX dealer we bought it from, is what we consider our best option.

Echelon73 · 09-25-2015, 01:50 PM

I'm not too worried if a software reflash steals a few miles per gallon. The car does so well that I probably wouldn't even notice that. Now, if it takes over a 5mpg hit I would be ticked. My big concern is the fix will cause excessive heat and soot in the engine and emission components and kill the life span of my car. Mine has 162,000 miles, but looks as clean as a new one on the lot. I doubt I would take their offer if they tried to buy if from me at some crazy low price.

ROBERT CROSS · 09-25-2015, 02:03 PM

Holy UREA Batman.......

Bob

rostam · 09-25-2015, 02:03 PM

I'm still trying to understand the idiot in VW who thought they could do this emission "defeat device" AND get away with it.

I was always curious as to why the 2.0 Liter TDI's did not have DEF tanks, but figured because of the smaller displacement, maybe they do not produce as much emissions as the 3.0 liter engines.

This is very bad for the future of diesel vehicles in North America.

Echelon73 · 09-25-2015, 02:06 PM

I believe it was only 2009 to 2012 that did not use DEF. Somewhere around 2013 or so they added it, but it seems they still had they defeat software loaded in the ECU's and used very little DEF from what I have been told. I know my 2011 does not use DEF.

jcl · 09-25-2015, 02:33 PM

SCR (DEF) was added for 2012, but only on the Passat.

That one failed too.

jcl · 09-25-2015, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rostam

I'm still trying to understand the idiot in VW who thought they could do this emission "defeat device" AND get away with it.

I was always curious as to why the 2.0 Liter TDI's did not have DEF tanks, but figured because of the smaller displacement, maybe they do not produce as much emissions as the 3.0 liter engines.

This is very bad for the future of diesel vehicles in North America.

The engine was promoted as being clean enough to meet emissions standards by the use of EGR and other technologies, without SCR.

It did meet the published emissions standards, as shown by the EPA pass.

It just had an additional mode when the engine computer went to a non-compliant map, whether for fuel efficiency, torque, engine life, or a combination of the above, we don't know.

Agree that it will be very bad for the future of passenger car diesels in North America. Hybrids will likely be the beneficiary, and full electrics.

It won't just be VW diesels that take a depreciation hit, that could extend to non-VW diesels too, IMO.

xrvr · 09-25-2015, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcl

The engine was promoted as being clean enough to meet standards by the use of EGR and other technologies, without SCR.

It did meet the emissions standards, as shown by the EPA pass.

It just had an additional mode when the engine computer went to a non-compliant map, whether for fuel efficiency, torque, or engine life, we don't know.

Agree that it will be very bad for the future of passenger car diesels in North America. Hybrids will likely be the beneficiary.

It won't just be VW diesels that take a depreciation hit, that could extend to non-VW diesels IMO.

Why? People aren't that stupid anymore.

jcl · 09-25-2015, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by avionstream

Why? People aren't that stupid anymore.

Why will the passenger car diesel market in general, and other passenger diesel vehicles take a depreciation hit? Because of the black cloud of mistrust. Because manufacturers will pull back, due to the risk. Because Asian manufacturers have already pulled back from diesels, focusing on hybrids and electrics. Because the main promoters of small diesels were European manufacturers, enjoying lower taxes on diesel fuel, and lax emissions standards for NOx, a situation that is changing as European cities begin to tackle their smog issues.

It took a lot of years for North Americans to get over what little they knew of the Oldsmobile diesel disaster. This is bigger.

A BMW X3 20d was tested independently in the last few days, and found to exceed the Euro 6 emission results by 11 times. There is no claim that BMW rigged the test with a defeat device, but something isn't right. BMW stock promptly dropped 10%.

Audi and Porsche heads of development just announced to be leaving. So it isn't just VW, it seems.

All of this will add up to a big mess. And small diesels could be seen as more trouble than they are worth by the manufacturers. I don't think this necessarily applies to large pickup trucks, but it will spread across small diesel passenger vehicles. Next electric vehicle advertisement to watch for: "Not a diesel"

Wayward · 09-25-2015, 02:51 PM

VW will recover just fine - it really is no big deal in the long run.

Me, I do not have a TDI but will buying VW stock at a bargain!

For those who own them....Congratulations. You've got a fine diesel that has not been crippled by ridiculous, premature EPA mandates. And no blue DEF goop to mess with!

Enjoy the power every time you put the pedal to the metal. .

bono · 09-25-2015, 02:59 PM

This is unfortunate and I agree it will slow down diesel market a lot. I always drove BMW. Always diesel... Anyway, the choice of diesels in the US is very poor: the new version of Mercedes ML comes with 2 liter diesel, BMW downgraded 3 liter bi-turbo diesel to a single turbo diesel (fooling customers with the badge 35d)... When changing E70 35d to F15 I would go for a gas version, since the gas version is more powerful twin-scroll engine.

Ted S. · 09-25-2015, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wayward

For those who own them....Congratulations. You've got a fine diesel that has not been crippled by ridiculous, premature EPA mandates. And no blue DEF goop to mess with!

Enjoy the power every time you put the pedal to the metal. .

Exactly. While i am not thrilled at the environmental impact, as a VW owner I think I would be happy with my defeater for the extra power, mileage and fewer engine problems.