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Old 09-25-2015, 03:36 PM   #15
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I'm still trying to understand the idiot in VW who thought they could do this emission "defeat device" AND get away with it.

I was always curious as to why the 2.0 Liter TDI's did not have DEF tanks, but figured because of the smaller displacement, maybe they do not produce as much emissions as the 3.0 liter engines.

This is very bad for the future of diesel vehicles in North America.
The engine was promoted as being clean enough to meet emissions standards by the use of EGR and other technologies, without SCR.

It did meet the published emissions standards, as shown by the EPA pass.

It just had an additional mode when the engine computer went to a non-compliant map, whether for fuel efficiency, torque, engine life, or a combination of the above, we don't know.

Agree that it will be very bad for the future of passenger car diesels in North America. Hybrids will likely be the beneficiary, and full electrics.

It won't just be VW diesels that take a depreciation hit, that could extend to non-VW diesels too, IMO.
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Old 09-25-2015, 03:38 PM   #16
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The engine was promoted as being clean enough to meet standards by the use of EGR and other technologies, without SCR.

It did meet the emissions standards, as shown by the EPA pass.

It just had an additional mode when the engine computer went to a non-compliant map, whether for fuel efficiency, torque, or engine life, we don't know.

Agree that it will be very bad for the future of passenger car diesels in North America. Hybrids will likely be the beneficiary.

It won't just be VW diesels that take a depreciation hit, that could extend to non-VW diesels IMO.
Why? People aren't that stupid anymore.
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Old 09-25-2015, 03:46 PM   #17
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Why? People aren't that stupid anymore.
Why will the passenger car diesel market in general, and other passenger diesel vehicles take a depreciation hit? Because of the black cloud of mistrust. Because manufacturers will pull back, due to the risk. Because Asian manufacturers have already pulled back from diesels, focusing on hybrids and electrics. Because the main promoters of small diesels were European manufacturers, enjoying lower taxes on diesel fuel, and lax emissions standards for NOx, a situation that is changing as European cities begin to tackle their smog issues.

It took a lot of years for North Americans to get over what little they knew of the Oldsmobile diesel disaster. This is bigger.

A BMW X3 20d was tested independently in the last few days, and found to exceed the Euro 6 emission results by 11 times. There is no claim that BMW rigged the test with a defeat device, but something isn't right. BMW stock promptly dropped 10%.

Audi and Porsche heads of development just announced to be leaving. So it isn't just VW, it seems.

All of this will add up to a big mess. And small diesels could be seen as more trouble than they are worth by the manufacturers. I don't think this necessarily applies to large pickup trucks, but it will spread across small diesel passenger vehicles. Next electric vehicle advertisement to watch for: "Not a diesel"
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Old 09-25-2015, 03:51 PM   #18
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VW will recover just fine - it really is no big deal in the long run.

Me, I do not have a TDI but will buying VW stock at a bargain!

For those who own them....Congratulations. You've got a fine diesel that has not been crippled by ridiculous, premature EPA mandates. And no blue DEF goop to mess with!

Enjoy the power every time you put the pedal to the metal. .
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Old 09-25-2015, 03:59 PM   #19
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This is unfortunate and I agree it will slow down diesel market a lot. I always drove BMW. Always diesel... Anyway, the choice of diesels in the US is very poor: the new version of Mercedes ML comes with 2 liter diesel, BMW downgraded 3 liter bi-turbo diesel to a single turbo diesel (fooling customers with the badge 35d)... When changing E70 35d to F15 I would go for a gas version, since the gas version is more powerful twin-scroll engine.
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Old 09-25-2015, 04:08 PM   #20
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For those who own them....Congratulations. You've got a fine diesel that has not been crippled by ridiculous, premature EPA mandates. And no blue DEF goop to mess with!

Enjoy the power every time you put the pedal to the metal. .
Exactly. While i am not thrilled at the environmental impact, as a VW owner I think I would be happy with my defeater for the extra power, mileage and fewer engine problems.
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Old 09-25-2015, 04:10 PM   #21
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I'm still trying to understand the idiot in VW who thought they could do this emission "defeat device" AND get away with it.
I've a guess. It is age old. VW "arranged monetary favors" for a government EPA official in return for the testing software interfaces.

Someone figured it out. So a VW exec falls on his sword.
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Old 09-25-2015, 04:12 PM   #22
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There is a Consumer Reports "Talking Cars" video on this subject out today as a video podcast, or on youtube:
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Old 09-25-2015, 04:14 PM   #23
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It wasn't the EPA that figured it out.

http://www.npr.org/2015/09/24/443053...ntent=20150925
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Old 09-25-2015, 04:21 PM   #24
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No, it does not have that role, or budget. It has to depend on self-reporting by auto manufacturers. Regulation it seems is unpopular.
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Old 09-25-2015, 04:28 PM   #25
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Hooray for VW for defeating our unnecessary standards. Time will show all these standards are not needed. It's a hoax. No I'm not trying to be funny, it will all become apparent once objective people go over all the research done in the last decade or two. Just my opinions and those of a growing number of ignored skeptics.
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Old 09-25-2015, 04:35 PM   #26
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Why would the EPA turn itself in?

The aftermarket tuner companies have been under full blown assault by the Feds and car company attorneys lately, Good for them!

(thanks for the link Top)
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Old 09-25-2015, 04:38 PM   #27
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. Time will show all these standards are not needed. It's a hoax. No I'm not trying to be funny, it will all become apparent once objective people go over all the research done in the last decade or two. .
You are correct. It has gotten out of control to the point of criminal. Its like VHS vs Betamax except these days EPA picks the winners and the losers by simply writing the regulations.
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Old 09-25-2015, 04:41 PM   #28
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Question Really......

Yep...time fixes all hoaxes.

A little more time and Wally World will be under water.

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