Towing Vehicles: smiting by the numbers.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

I'd retire our 95 3/4, 7.4L, in a N.Y. minute if only G.M. would offer

the Dura-Max, Allison combo in the Suburban. It's in the rumor mill so

who knows, we can dream.....right

You can buy a Duramax conversion Burb right now.

[slowmover]

Tow ratings, etc are designed to sell pickups. That's their sole function.

7200# was about what than the Silver Streak my father (and the Streamline my grandfather) pulled all over North America. With cars. That stayed in service well past 100 or 200 thousand miles.

A WD hitch leverages 20-25% of TW from the tow vehicle onto the trailer. A 12.5% TW of a 7200-lb TT is 900-lbs. 675-lbs on TV, or less than roughly 340-lbs per axle. That's minivan territory.

There are few sights on the Interstate as comical as a one ton pulling a 25'. That the owner still DID NOT set the lash-up correctly is seen with the poor TT bouncing along on the front axle. Almost a direct relationship. Can't even get the TT level. I see it weekly. Possibly more Airstreams on the road than anyone else around here.

That a pickup can't maneuver or stop worth beans at 60-mph and up, and that the heavier the pickup (especially with 4WD) the more rollover-prone. Why isn't this risk considered? It's statistically valid. (Those pesky numbers). You don't honestly think the amen corner around here has tested 65-0 emergency braking distances do you?

Someone who runs along towing AND solo with the truck bed heavily loaded apparently has a "need". Someone who doesn't is fooling themselves.

OP, what's the front/rear weight bias of the pickups of your choice? Why does that ratio portend unsafe handling and braking when combined a high center of gravity? These numbers mean more than what's on that spreadsheet above.

The pickup isn't better. It's a vehicle compromised in its design. Why would one want something that will roll over at speeds where the this trailer design will skid sideways, and a car spin around? That is itself the likely CAUSE of loss of control accidents.

And what percentage of annual miles will be in daily driver, solo use compared to towing? THAT number has precedence over the others. All of them.

You want the numbers that matter? Here are the first two:

1] An ideal tow vehicle is one that best suits daily solo needs (not little boy ego),

2] AND that can tow an Airstream.

Why would one increase the chance of a serious injury accident in the majority of annual miles? Run that computation a few times.

The ones who state other vehicles "can't" have no applicable experience. Some others of us have decades worth.

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

Then and now, it's the wrong question. It's tells us nothing about angels nor why they may be important.

You want what you want, fine. Same for everyone. But the numbers you're running aren't first order of importance. They're second, even third in getting a stable tow vehicle that is otherwise BY DEFINITION family transportation.

Throw that out the window, don't care. (Yeah, we know).

Luck and skill aren't the thing. Yesterday isn't today. Anyone can be tired, distracted, injured or ill.

Take your time. There are far more comfortable and better-designed vehicles suitable for the job. Find out what matters. It won't be in a glossy sales brochure or in the typical RV forum echo chamber.

The Internet makes easy what we had to learn in experience forty or fifty years ago. Make it your friend.

Good luck.

.

[jcl]

A ten year old thread.

With discussion of 17 and 22 year old vehicles.

Why?

[FCStreamer]

Originally Posted by jcl

A ten year old thread.

With discussion of 17 and 22 year old vehicles.

Why?

Good catch.

[dznf0g]

Oops, I've done that once.

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by jcl

A ten year old thread.

With discussion of 17 and 22 year old vehicles.

Why?

Time flies...diesel Burb still runs like a new one.

[Wayward]

Originally Posted by jcl

A ten year old thread.

With discussion of 17 and 22 year old vehicles.

Why?

[emoji846] It is comforting to know some things, like this debate, never change.

[KK4YZ]

Originally Posted by slowmover

Tow ratings, etc are designed to sell pickups. That's their sole function.

7200# was about what than the Silver Streak my father (and the Streamline my grandfather) pulled all over North America. With cars. That stayed in service well past 100 or 200 thousand miles.

A WD hitch leverages 20-25% of TW from the tow vehicle onto the trailer. A 12.5% TW of a 7200-lb TT is 900-lbs. 675-lbs on TV, or less than roughly 340-lbs per axle. That's minivan territory.

There are few sights on the Interstate as comical as a one ton pulling a 25'. That the owner still DID NOT set the lash-up correctly is seen with the poor TT bouncing along on the front axle. Almost a direct relationship. Can't even get the TT level. I see it weekly. Possibly more Airstreams on the road than anyone else around here.

That a pickup can't maneuver or stop worth beans at 60-mph and up, and that the heavier the pickup (especially with 4WD) the more rollover-prone. Why isn't this risk considered? It's statistically valid. (Those pesky numbers). You don't honestly think the amen corner around here has tested 65-0 emergency braking distances do you?

Someone who runs along towing AND solo with the truck bed heavily loaded apparently has a "need". Someone who doesn't is fooling themselves.

OP, what's the front/rear weight bias of the pickups of your choice? Why does that ratio portend unsafe handling and braking when combined a high center of gravity? These numbers mean more than what's on that spreadsheet above.

The pickup isn't better. It's a vehicle compromised in its design. Why would one want something that will roll over at speeds where the this trailer design will skid sideways, and a car spin around? That is itself the likely CAUSE of loss of control accidents.

And what percentage of annual miles will be in daily driver, solo use compared to towing? THAT number has precedence over the others. All of them.

You want the numbers that matter? Here are the first two:

1] An ideal tow vehicle is one that best suits daily solo needs (not little boy ego),

2] AND that can tow an Airstream.

Why would one increase the chance of a serious injury accident in the majority of annual miles? Run that computation a few times.

The ones who state other vehicles "can't" have no applicable experience. Some others of us have decades worth.

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

Then and now, it's the wrong question. It's tells us nothing about angels nor why they may be important.

You want what you want, fine. Same for everyone. But the numbers you're running aren't first order of importance. They're second, even third in getting a stable tow vehicle that is otherwise BY DEFINITION family transportation.

Throw that out the window, don't care. (Yeah, we know).

Luck and skill aren't the thing. Yesterday isn't today. Anyone can be tired, distracted, injured or ill.

Take your time. There are far more comfortable and better-designed vehicles suitable for the job. Find out what matters. It won't be in a glossy sales brochure or in the typical RV forum echo chamber.

The Internet makes easy what we had to learn in experience forty or fifty years ago. Make it your friend.

Good luck.

.

All that lecturing and YOU drive a monster truck?😳

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by KK4YZ

All that lecturing and YOU drive a monster truck?😳

Which is constantly loaded 1300-1700 lbs past ship weight when solo. 7,940-lbs TARE. Miss the part about solo use miles? It's also balanced out to within 40-lbs at all corners, is 2WD, features independent front suspension with rack & pinion steering and sits a good deal lower than today's trucks. And suspension is lightly modified for better handling.

Doesn't hurt that my annual average fuel burn -- all miles -- is 21-mpg.

When it's no longer needed, a car will be substituted. That 1100-lb TW will be about 400-lbs per TV axle. Just like the good old days. A superior vehicle solo, and a more stable TV.

.

[KK4YZ]

Originally Posted by slowmover

Which is constantly loaded 1300-1700 lbs past ship weight when solo. 7,940-lbs TARE. Miss the part about solo use miles? It's also balanced out to within 40-lbs at all corners, is 2WD, features independent front suspension with rack & pinion steering and sits a good deal lower than today's trucks. And suspension is lightly modified for better handling.

Doesn't hurt that my annual average fuel burn -- all miles -- is 21-mpg.

When it's no longer needed, a car will be substituted. That 1100-lb TW will be about 400-lbs per TV axle. Just like the good old days. A superior vehicle solo, and a more stable TV.

.

So when you ditch your truck what will you tow with, a Crown Vic?

[sheriff1]

Originally Posted by KK4YZ

So when you ditch your truck what will you tow with, a Crown Vic?

Fiat 500 with the magic PPP hitch.

[slowmover]

Ha! I like you guys.

300/Charger

Mercedes design. 4-whl independent. Fleet car. Police choice. Vehicle wheelbase and ship weight both at point where weight and WB taper off in effectiveness. In production many years, so gremlins likely gone. Etc.

Short rear overhang. Unit body. Excellent power to weight ratio. Etc.

A lot easier to live with than some cars I've dealt with (overhang, suspension design & tune, carbuerated, 3-speed with high gearing, etc), but I'll miss that Steer axle being way out forward on those older cars (ride quality).

Fuel mileage won't be what this truck will do in towing, but all else is easier to live with.

Fiat 500! Look up the UTube vid of the drag race between a Ferrari and a Smart Car. You'll forward it to your friends.
.

[EarlM]

Why do many airstream owners like to tow with small undersized tow vehicles and try to compensated with a expensive hitch???

[slowmover]

Can you define, "proper size"? With what limits? And, why?

Maybe it'd be easier to ask (though a reply isn't expected) why an Airstream is a superior design and how it fits the question to the answer?

The videos at the Can Am RV Centre website are a start.

No one in their right mind used a pickup to pull these trailers cross country fifty years ago. Why they insist on doing so now is advertising and herd mentality. There are options. Ignorance isn't necessarily a barrier.

And are you "sure" a VPP hitch is a bandaid?

.

[KK4YZ]

Originally Posted by slowmover

Can you define, "proper size"? With what limits? And, why?

Maybe it'd be easier to ask (though a reply isn't expected) why an Airstream is a superior design and how it fits the question to the answer?

The videos at the Can Am RV Centre website are a start.

No one in their right mind used a pickup to pull these trailers cross country fifty years ago. Why they insist on doing so now is advertising and herd mentality. There are options. Ignorance isn't necessarily a barrier.

And are you "sure" a VPP hitch is a bandaid?

.

All of us sheep who have gone astray in our nice, roomy, powerful trucks bow to your superior intellect.....in your Dodge Charger 😂

[sheriff1]

Originally Posted by KK4YZ

All of us sheep who have gone astray in our nice, roomy, powerful trucks bow to your superior intellect.....in your Dodge Charger [emoji23]

[emoji106]
Everyone has an opinion, some have opinions on EVERYTHING , 🤡s

[zapper]

Noticed not too many happy folks with Tundra's or Ford 150's have joined in. When I was in the market I looked at both trucks closely and really liked both. Decided on a Tundra. Why? Because at the time ,and this is silly, the Tundra had a better back-up camera.

I pull a 30' FC. Never had a power problem going up any of the grades in this discussion including Hwy 89 out of Page Az to Zion or Hwy 80 west bound out of Cheyenne or Hwy 70 westbound from Denver to Grand Junction. All had steep grades. The question is how fast? We traveled up these grades between 50-60 MPH. A comfortable pace. Any faster on these grades, which the truck was more than capable, my gas mileage would drop from 10 mpg to 6 mpg or less making it iffy getting to the next gas station. Which leads me to one of the two things I don't like about the Tundra, gas mileage and the 26 gallon gas tank on this model year. Range while towing on the flat is about 200 miles+\-. The other limiting factor on this Tundra I don't like is the tendency for the front disks to warp after 6k miles while towing. Until they warp stopping power is adequate.

Over all after 73k miles on a 2010 we never had a break down that would side line our travels. Very reliable.

In all would I consider buying another? Yes

[KK4YZ]

Well, I'm a happy Tundra owner. Nothing is perfect, however. I wish mine (2015) had the 38 gal tank that the new ones have, but that would take away from available load capacity. It's all a trade off. We pull a 23' FC and will get 11 mpg even through the mountains.... although we haven't tackled the Rockies yet. I've always had good experience with Toyota; that's why I went straight for the Tundra. If I had a 30' AS I might consider a F-250 or something, however.

[KK4YZ]

Originally Posted by sheriff1

[emoji106]
Everyone has an opinion, some have opinions on EVERYTHING , 🤡s

Hey. This is the internet. We're ALL experts. Dontcha know?[emoji57]

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by KK4YZ

All of us sheep who have gone astray in our nice, roomy, powerful trucks bow to your superior intellect.....in your Dodge Charger 😂

Choices aren't easy for you, are they?

What's the constant weight of the truck over ship-weight when solo? FF/RR balance? And what percent are those miles of the annual total?

That's sixth grade.

You've got what you want: heightened risk with lowered performance. Make the compromise worthwhile.

And have fun.