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Old 09-29-2007, 09:46 PM   #15
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Bringing in the sheaves (reeling in the years) - tow caps, mileage, diesels, tow mode

Thanks for all the replies. It's been a couple of months since I did the figures, however, I think they still are meaningful. I really did like the Tundra. And it looked like it would pull the trailer. And if your data show that it will tow, that is good (but too late for me ). Here is how I came up with the figures.

* Looking at the specs on the Chevy web site, some 1/2 ton trucks (those with up to 16,000 CGVWR) appear to be able to tow the weight, but they have too low a GVW (last figure in the spreadsheet). So it appears that they will tow, but too much weight is on the truck.

* I got my CGVWR from the dealer. And it looks in line with the kind of truck a Tundra is (1/2 ton). Even if we factor in a larger tow value for the Tundra, the GVW is still that of a 1/2 ton truck and appears to be loaded up too much (last figure in the spreadsheet)

* I got the curb (dry weight) from the website. Though some definitions vary, it appears that curb weight is GVW - load capacity. Even if we take dry weight as curb weight - gasoline it still is overloaded.

* Looking at the rear springs, the Tundra (and other 1/2 ton trucks) have at least one less leaf than the 3/4 ton. This may explain the exceedance of the GVW.

* The preponderance of replies is in line with the need for a 3/4 ton. However, maybe those are the only persons who answered.

Thanks for the input!

More info on other subjects:

The whole rig is now 43.5 feet long. That's three feet longer than my former gross length. However, the stability of tow is worth it. On other topic comments:

* I was also surprised by the quick downshift on a steep grade coming downhill in tow mode! Like as to make me mess the leather! But then after reading about it, it made sense, and I have not had that emotional problem since.

* I get an average of 11 on a trip at 7500' elevation with a generally gently sloping highway.

* Diesels? Not for me. I had a Peugot diesel in 1985 and it was too "interesting" an experience, but that is another story...

* As a sidelight, I always thought the song by Steely Dan was "bringing in the sheaves", not "reeling in the years". Just found out last week... Shows old dawgs like me can learn new things, they just won't admit it...
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Old 09-29-2007, 10:03 PM   #16
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Hank - You are correct about the GVW and 1/2 ton trucks. Your trailer is a good 1000 pounds heavier then mine which also adds another 120 pounds to the hitch. I can run the numbers and not exceed any with my 75 Trade Wind and my 07 Tundra. With the increased weight of your newer trailer, I would have been force to reduce truck weight by moving stuff into the trailer (not a great solution). I am sure your 3/4 ton is the correct solution for you, just as I a sure the Tundra is the right solution for me. The only difference is mine looks better!
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Old 09-30-2007, 08:16 PM   #17
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az,
Don't rub it in!

Chevy makes a tough truck, but it sure ain't elegant...
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Old 09-30-2007, 09:48 PM   #18
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I haven't taken our 20' Argosy to the scales (yet), but I can say from experience that our 2000 GMC G2500 cargo van with 5.0L isn't a great TV choice when it comes to long grades.

Dropping her out of OD (had to keep it there most of the 700+ mile trip home), she was still very unhappy. Liz and I have been talking about a different TV, maybe a 3/4 ton 'Burb with a diesel, or a big-block gasser. Whatever it winds up being, it will double as my daily driver.
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Old 09-30-2007, 10:29 PM   #19
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Thumbs up Dura-max Burb??

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobfowler
I haven't taken our 20' Argosy to the scales (yet), but I can say from experience that our 2000 GMC G2500 cargo van with 5.0L isn't a great TV choice when it comes to long grades.

Dropping her out of OD (had to keep it there most of the 700+ mile trip home), she was still very unhappy. Liz and I have been talking about a different TV, maybe a 3/4 ton 'Burb with a diesel, or a big-block gasser. Whatever it winds up being, it will double as my daily driver.
I'd retire our 95 3/4, 7.4L, in a N.Y. minute if only G.M. would offer

the Dura-Max, Allison combo in the Suburban. It's in the rumor mill so

who knows, we can dream.....right
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Old 08-19-2017, 12:35 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hshovic View Post
I have had a moderately long journey in RV towing vehicles. My first rig was a 2000 Forerunner with a 3200’ trailer. The second was a 2007 Forerunner with a 4000’ trailer. Now I have a Safari 25 with loaded weight at 7200’. These were under rated maximum towing capacity for each vehicle, but not by much. They were uncomfortably close. The engines worked really hard, and even with sway and weight distribution I always felt I was on the edge. On the few occasions where I had to maneuver, there was a tendency for the trailer to drive the truck. I went on a search for a new vehicle. The wife specified this is the last one, so get a good one.

I was smitten by the new Tundra. What a beauty! When I suggested a ½ ton PU as a TV to the Airstream community, I was smitten again. This time by a variety of comments, with many paraphrased as “I towed a … with a …. And it seemed to work fine”, “don’t do that”, and the like for a variety of vehicles. But who knows? And what about the rare, but unpleasant potential events that happen to so few of us that they don't get reported.


This time I had to do it by the numbers. Thanks to GMGAZ for a link to a spreadsheet. I had to do a bit of digging to find all the weights and capacities. Those spreadsheets are attached.

The numbers say: Doesn’t look like a Tundra will do it, nor will similar trucks. Not even close. A ¾ ton PU is the only way to go, at least to my watery, numbery, and smitten eyes. This puts some numbers on my decision to buy the ¾ Chevy PU ww 4.10 rear end as a TV for my FB.

I don’t purport to smite others’ opinions, since we all have different experiences. But now there’s mine to add to the mix.

Not Smitingly,
Hank
I call it the tail wagging the dog. I pulled our 30' As for 3 years with an F-150 and it was a job. More often than not we were two or three hundred lbs over loaded, which wasn't hard since the tongue weight was 1,000. Last year I decided I had enough and traded the it for a F-250. I thought I died and went to heaven. The difference is day and night and we travel a lot safer now. I also need to admit that for a while I bought into the smaller TV just get a better hitch argument however deep down a I always new better so I did get that bigger truck with a diesel :-). I spent my working life around diesels, I love them.
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Old 08-19-2017, 12:53 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
I'd retire our 95 3/4, 7.4L, in a N.Y. minute if only G.M. would offer

the Dura-Max, Allison combo in the Suburban. It's in the rumor mill so

who knows, we can dream.....right
You can buy a Duramax conversion Burb right now.
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Old 08-19-2017, 07:59 PM   #22
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Tow ratings, etc are designed to sell pickups. That's their sole function.

7200# was about what than the Silver Streak my father (and the Streamline my grandfather) pulled all over North America. With cars. That stayed in service well past 100 or 200 thousand miles.

A WD hitch leverages 20-25% of TW from the tow vehicle onto the trailer. A 12.5% TW of a 7200-lb TT is 900-lbs. 675-lbs on TV, or less than roughly 340-lbs per axle. That's minivan territory.

There are few sights on the Interstate as comical as a one ton pulling a 25'. That the owner still DID NOT set the lash-up correctly is seen with the poor TT bouncing along on the front axle. Almost a direct relationship. Can't even get the TT level. I see it weekly. Possibly more Airstreams on the road than anyone else around here.

That a pickup can't maneuver or stop worth beans at 60-mph and up, and that the heavier the pickup (especially with 4WD) the more rollover-prone. Why isn't this risk considered? It's statistically valid. (Those pesky numbers). You don't honestly think the amen corner around here has tested 65-0 emergency braking distances do you?

Someone who runs along towing AND solo with the truck bed heavily loaded apparently has a "need". Someone who doesn't is fooling themselves.

OP, what's the front/rear weight bias of the pickups of your choice? Why does that ratio portend unsafe handling and braking when combined a high center of gravity? These numbers mean more than what's on that spreadsheet above.

The pickup isn't better. It's a vehicle compromised in its design. Why would one want something that will roll over at speeds where the this trailer design will skid sideways, and a car spin around? That is itself the likely CAUSE of loss of control accidents.

And what percentage of annual miles will be in daily driver, solo use compared to towing? THAT number has precedence over the others. All of them.

You want the numbers that matter? Here are the first two:

1] An ideal tow vehicle is one that best suits daily solo needs (not little boy ego),

2] AND that can tow an Airstream.

Why would one increase the chance of a serious injury accident in the majority of annual miles? Run that computation a few times.

The ones who state other vehicles "can't" have no applicable experience. Some others of us have decades worth.

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

Then and now, it's the wrong question. It's tells us nothing about angels nor why they may be important.

You want what you want, fine. Same for everyone. But the numbers you're running aren't first order of importance. They're second, even third in getting a stable tow vehicle that is otherwise BY DEFINITION family transportation.

Throw that out the window, don't care. (Yeah, we know).

Luck and skill aren't the thing. Yesterday isn't today. Anyone can be tired, distracted, injured or ill.

Take your time. There are far more comfortable and better-designed vehicles suitable for the job. Find out what matters. It won't be in a glossy sales brochure or in the typical RV forum echo chamber.

The Internet makes easy what we had to learn in experience forty or fifty years ago. Make it your friend.

Good luck.

.
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Old 08-19-2017, 08:36 PM   #23
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A ten year old thread.

With discussion of 17 and 22 year old vehicles.

Why?
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Old 08-19-2017, 08:41 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcl View Post
A ten year old thread.

With discussion of 17 and 22 year old vehicles.

Why?
Good catch.
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Old 08-19-2017, 09:34 PM   #25
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Oops, I've done that once.
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Old 08-20-2017, 07:10 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcl View Post
A ten year old thread.

With discussion of 17 and 22 year old vehicles.

Why?
Time flies...diesel Burb still runs like a new one.
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Old 08-20-2017, 07:16 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcl View Post
A ten year old thread.

With discussion of 17 and 22 year old vehicles.

Why?


It is comforting to know some things, like this debate, never change.
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Old 08-20-2017, 08:06 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmover View Post
Tow ratings, etc are designed to sell pickups. That's their sole function.

7200# was about what than the Silver Streak my father (and the Streamline my grandfather) pulled all over North America. With cars. That stayed in service well past 100 or 200 thousand miles.

A WD hitch leverages 20-25% of TW from the tow vehicle onto the trailer. A 12.5% TW of a 7200-lb TT is 900-lbs. 675-lbs on TV, or less than roughly 340-lbs per axle. That's minivan territory.

There are few sights on the Interstate as comical as a one ton pulling a 25'. That the owner still DID NOT set the lash-up correctly is seen with the poor TT bouncing along on the front axle. Almost a direct relationship. Can't even get the TT level. I see it weekly. Possibly more Airstreams on the road than anyone else around here.

That a pickup can't maneuver or stop worth beans at 60-mph and up, and that the heavier the pickup (especially with 4WD) the more rollover-prone. Why isn't this risk considered? It's statistically valid. (Those pesky numbers). You don't honestly think the amen corner around here has tested 65-0 emergency braking distances do you?

Someone who runs along towing AND solo with the truck bed heavily loaded apparently has a "need". Someone who doesn't is fooling themselves.

OP, what's the front/rear weight bias of the pickups of your choice? Why does that ratio portend unsafe handling and braking when combined a high center of gravity? These numbers mean more than what's on that spreadsheet above.

The pickup isn't better. It's a vehicle compromised in its design. Why would one want something that will roll over at speeds where the this trailer design will skid sideways, and a car spin around? That is itself the likely CAUSE of loss of control accidents.

And what percentage of annual miles will be in daily driver, solo use compared to towing? THAT number has precedence over the others. All of them.

You want the numbers that matter? Here are the first two:

1] An ideal tow vehicle is one that best suits daily solo needs (not little boy ego),

2] AND that can tow an Airstream.

Why would one increase the chance of a serious injury accident in the majority of annual miles? Run that computation a few times.

The ones who state other vehicles "can't" have no applicable experience. Some others of us have decades worth.

How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

Then and now, it's the wrong question. It's tells us nothing about angels nor why they may be important.

You want what you want, fine. Same for everyone. But the numbers you're running aren't first order of importance. They're second, even third in getting a stable tow vehicle that is otherwise BY DEFINITION family transportation.

Throw that out the window, don't care. (Yeah, we know).

Luck and skill aren't the thing. Yesterday isn't today. Anyone can be tired, distracted, injured or ill.

Take your time. There are far more comfortable and better-designed vehicles suitable for the job. Find out what matters. It won't be in a glossy sales brochure or in the typical RV forum echo chamber.

The Internet makes easy what we had to learn in experience forty or fifty years ago. Make it your friend.

Good luck.

.
All that lecturing and YOU drive a monster truck?😳
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