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Old 05-05-2013, 07:13 PM   #15
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Rivet, do you mean the hitch receiver when you say hitch on a Titan? The hitch is that thing that attaches to the hitch receiver and the tongue. The hitch head is the part of the hitch with the ball on it.

Hitch receiver assembles can be welded or bolted on, sometimes both. Mine has a part welded to the frame and the rest of the assembly is bolted to that part.

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Old 05-05-2013, 07:36 PM   #16
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Steve

I think I recall that you wanted to avoid suicide doors. Is there a practical reason, or is it just personal preference?
Personal preference....had one, did not like it, don't want another one. I was wanting to go to a shorter overall truck, 1/2 ton, but with a bigger cab than the standard, so extended cab.

End result was I could not find a 1/2 ton that met all my requirements and had the capacity to haul the weight that I knew I would be carrying, so I bought a 3/4 ton Cummins equipped Ram.
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Old 05-05-2013, 08:51 PM   #17
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I have read a lot of posts for and against going to trailer sizes longer than 25' and towing with a regular full size SUV such as Expedition or Suburban (1500), or 1/2 ton truck such as F150 or Tundra.
I'm unclear on the connection between length and the tow vehicle. If it's simply the relationship between length and other parameters such as GVWR, tongue weight, etc., then this should be the focus rather than length.

I tow a 30' Safari (8400 GVWR) with a '12 Ford F150 Ecoboost. So far pulling in eastern Canada (pretty flat) it has been excellent. Lots of reserve power on the highway to keep up and pass when required.

When decked out with all the towing/payload options, the F150 is very capable. By the numbers, when fully loaded (2150 lbs payload) the towing capacity is 8900 lbs. But at the other end of scale, a minimally equipped F150 barely has enough payload capacity for 4 guys and their golf clubs.

So one needs to do their homework.

I purchased a Propride 3D with 1400lb spring bars as recommended. Towing the Airstream with this combination is stress free.

As for mountains - I'll report back in August. We have a 10k km trip planned that will take us through the Rockies, the Grand Canyon and Yellowstone.
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Old 05-06-2013, 10:08 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by MaxTow View Post
I'm unclear on the connection between length and the tow vehicle. If it's simply the relationship between length and other parameters such as GVWR, tongue weight, etc., then this should be the focus rather than length.

~snip~

So one needs to do their homework.
~snip~
The length thing has to do with a short wheel base vehicle being levered around by a longer wheel base trailer. Some people also have concern with the trailer weighing more than the vehicle controlling it. There is a lot of physics involved. But a lot of common sense too.

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Old 05-06-2013, 10:22 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxTow View Post
I'm unclear on the connection between length and the tow vehicle. If it's simply the relationship between length and other parameters such as GVWR, tongue weight, etc., then this should be the focus rather than length.


I purchased a Propride 3D with 1400lb spring bars as recommended. Towing the Airstream with this combination is stress free.
It's not about trailer length, but weight, and tongue weight. And, don't forget about the 200+ pounds of weight for the ProPride hitch.

When I added all the weight of the tongue, hitch, and everything I frequently carry in/on the truck, I could not find a 1/2 ton truck that I wanted that would comfortably carry the weight.

When I added the 1100+ pounds of tongue weight, camper top, bed liner, bicycles, bar-b-q, chairs, tools, kayaks, us and the dog, every 1/2 ton truck that I looked at was over weight.
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Old 05-06-2013, 10:57 AM   #20
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I brought our new 2013 25FB International home behind a 2007 Mercedes ML320 CDI diesel that had a CanAm modified frame receiver to support the Hensley Hitch. Being both new and empty, the rig was completely legal weight wise per the CAT scales at a Love's truck stop. However, the empty weight was more than the Mercedes service manager's recommended maximum trailer weight of 5,000 pounds. (Note that newer models of the Mercedes ML class are allowed to tow 7,200 pounds)

Since I was leaving Los Angles for the Phoenix area, I was driving the notorious 55 mph CA speed limit for vehicles towing. The diesel was turning 1,650 rpms in 7th gear as I hit the mountain grade east of Palm Springs on I-10. As the engine came under load, I down shifted to 6th gear (1,850 rpms) and at the steepest area downshifted to 5th gear (2,150 rpms) and still maintained 55 mph. I was tickled pink on how all was working. When I hit the Arizona border, the trucks resumed 75+ speeds and I cruised along at 55 mph. There was no sway action from trucks passing at a 20+ mph speed differential.

Then we loaded the trailer with our "stuff" and a full tank of water, put a jack and some other stuff in the back of the Mercedes and we drove over the scales at the local Love's truck stop. The front axle was overloaded by 58 pounds and the GVW was exceeded by nearly 300 pounds.

I realized there was no way we could bring generators with gas cans in the ML nor additional water or any other gear. We were past maxed out weight wise.

Thus the search for an adequate tow vehicle began with looking at the Ford 150 series. I quickly discovered, using several Ford factory reference materials, that only a stripped down base model could barely have the necessary load capacity to tow our trailer, which had a 1,175 pound tongue weight, and some capacity for generators and other heavy gear.

Thus my search moved to the 3/4 ton diesel arena and the Dodge was the best choice for me as I know the engine and it's components (the original turbochargers for the first generation Cummins engine in the Dodge trucks were made by my family's first licensee in England). The current Cummins engine is American designed and built in Columbus, Indiana.

I have been pleased with the drivability, stoping ability with engine braking, cargo capacity (if it fits it ships ) and power when towing the trailer. It has the reserves to handle even a 31' Airstream if that were to be in our future.
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Old 05-06-2013, 10:09 PM   #21
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Switz - I thought I was reading my own post there for a bit and was surprised when I found out my Touareg TDI actually had more payload capcaity than my F-150 EcoBoost that I purchased for a week...

Heck - my new daily driver "2014 Grand Cherokee SRT" has more max payload than that F-150 Crew Cab 4x4 EcoBoost had...

The funny world we live in....
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Old 05-06-2013, 10:33 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by switz View Post
I brought our new 2013 25FB International home behind a 2007 Mercedes ML320 CDI diesel that had a CanAm modified frame receiver to support the Hensley Hitch. Being both new and empty, the rig was completely legal weight wise per the CAT scales at a Love's truck stop. However, the empty weight was more than the Mercedes service manager's recommended maximum trailer weight of 5,000 pounds. (Note that newer models of the Mercedes ML class are allowed to tow 7,200 pounds)

Since I was leaving Los Angles for the Phoenix area, I was driving the notorious 55 mph CA speed limit for vehicles towing. The diesel was turning 1,650 rpms in 7th gear as I hit the mountain grade east of Palm Springs on I-10. As the engine came under load, I down shifted to 6th gear (1,850 rpms) and at the steepest area downshifted to 5th gear (2,150 rpms) and still maintained 55 mph. I was tickled pink on how all was working. When I hit the Arizona border, the trucks resumed 75+ speeds and I cruised along at 55 mph. There was no sway action from trucks passing at a 20+ mph speed differential.

Then we loaded the trailer with our "stuff" and a full tank of water, put a jack and some other stuff in the back of the Mercedes and we drove over the scales at the local Love's truck stop. The front axle was overloaded by 58 pounds and the GVW was exceeded by nearly 300 pounds.

I realized there was no way we could bring generators with gas cans in the ML nor additional water or any other gear. We were past maxed out weight wise.

Thus the search for an adequate tow vehicle began with looking at the Ford 150 series. I quickly discovered, using several Ford factory reference materials, that only a stripped down base model could barely have the necessary load capacity to tow our trailer, which had a 1,175 pound tongue weight, and some capacity for generators and other heavy gear.

Thus my search moved to the 3/4 ton diesel arena and the Dodge was the best choice for me as I know the engine and it's components (the original turbochargers for the first generation Cummins engine in the Dodge trucks were made by my family's first licensee in England). The current Cummins engine is American designed and built in Columbus, Indiana.

I have been pleased with the drivability, stoping ability with engine braking, cargo capacity (if it fits it ships ) and power when towing the trailer. It has the reserves to handle even a 31' Airstream if that were to be in our future.
All I want to say is......."Ditto"
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:18 PM   #23
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Gene, thank you for the clarification. I was thinking that The Nissan Titan had the receiver replaced, but now I understand that the reese was his sway control. My mistake.

I think I read elsewhere that you have the Tundra and are pleased with the towing experience. The 25FB or 27FB are two of the floorplans we are considering. You are within the payload, which is around 1700 isn't it? (with the correct equipment) Is that just the towing package or is there more to it?


Switz,

Great info. Thank you. This payload thing is a challenge for those of use trying to stay with a gas engine that gets reasonable mileage. It is very helpful to read the real tongue weight of your airstream when equipped for camping as we will need our new tow vehicle prior to the new camper.

Does anyone know if there is a thread where people have submitted their actual weights? That would make a great sticky.
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Old 05-08-2013, 09:54 PM   #24
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I hate to rain on the parade, but I think there is a large gap between what is possible and what is prudent. Weight ratings are put in place by the manufacturers of both trailers and tow vehicles for a variety of sound engineering reasons including, and importantly, legal liability. Since I am not an automotive engineer, I cannot argue with their rationale, but even a lay person can readily assess the legal liability situation.
So let's assume your vehicle is functionally effective at towing the larger trailer, but you have surpassed the towing weight rating of the tow vehicle and you subsequently are in an accident with a third party. Personal injury and property damage result...to you and the other party. Regardless of fault, you have compromised your position, whether you are plaintiff or defendant, when the attorney's investigators reveal that you were towing a trailer beyond the stated capacity of the tow vehicle. If you are comfortable with the foregoing scenario, putting yourself in a position of weakness through contributory negligence or practically defenseless if the occurrence is your fault, be certain you have a lot of primary and umbrella insurance as you will need it.



If the question is solely regarding length and the combined weight remains well under the tow vehicle rating, then I like a long wheelbase tow vehicle for the stability it affords.
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:11 AM   #25
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If you are in an accident the only citation youll likely receive is for failure to control the vehicle. Weight does not enter into it if one has not exceeded axle/tire ratings and if some agency were to expend the funds to investigate to that level (incredibly unlikely and nearly impossible given what happens to TT's in a bad accident).

Commerical use of private vehicles, usually pickup trucks, follows that law. And that is the FAWR and RAWR plus adequate tires. That's it.

GVWR, "tow ratings" and the rest are about what a private party is comfortable in recommending.

Someone who is worried over safety and liability would be a great deal more concerned over braking/steering capacity.

"Weight" is an argument designed to steer everyone to pickups . . a very high profit vehicle. But with the worst steering, braking and resistance to rollover.

Let's try some common sense: Avoid the accident in the first place.

.
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:59 AM   #26
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I hate to rain on the parade, but I think there is a large gap between what is possible and what is prudent. Weight ratings are put in place by the manufacturers of both trailers and tow vehicles for a variety of sound engineering reasons including, and importantly, legal liability. Since I am not an automotive engineer, I cannot argue with their rationale, but even a lay person can readily assess the legal liability situation.
So let's assume your vehicle is functionally effective at towing the larger trailer, but you have surpassed the towing weight rating of the tow vehicle and you subsequently are in an accident with a third party. Personal injury and property damage result...to you and the other party. Regardless of fault, you have compromised your position, whether you are plaintiff or defendant, when the attorney's investigators reveal that you were towing a trailer beyond the stated capacity of the tow vehicle. If you are comfortable with the foregoing scenario, putting yourself in a position of weakness through contributory negligence or practically defenseless if the occurrence is your fault, be certain you have a lot of primary and umbrella insurance as you will need it.
If the question is solely regarding length and the combined weight remains well under the tow vehicle rating, then I like a long wheelbase tow vehicle for the stability it affords.
Legal opinions offer nothing to towing discussions except to hijack them, yet most towing discussions receive them. When asked to substantiate the personal warning about a private party towing his recreational vehicle being cited or held legally responsible for the warnings stated, the poster is never able to do it. Because there is nothing to it.

I'm with slowmover on this. Better to keep the discussion towards a safe, dependable combination capable of meeting the particular individual's needs. The answer is not always in the charts. Common sense goes a long way.

doug k
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Old 05-09-2013, 07:59 AM   #27
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Slowmover, I won't argue your points because mostly they are true.

However, there are some major issues with staying within axle weight ratings towing larger Airstreams with smaller vehicles, and I know because I have recently researched the topic in an effort to go to a smaller tow vehicle.

The fact is most all of the smaller (1/2 ton trucks, and therefore all lesser vehicles) will have the rear axle overloaded as we load and use the trailer and truck.

The problem with overloading, or even getting to the point of being close to overloading, is not just one of exceeding some manufacturer's ratings, but when a vehicle is loaded to the point of max and beyond, handling problems increase.

An overloaded vehicle will not stop, turn, accelerate, or resist sway as well as when it is not overloaded. You of all people should know and understand this.

I'm frequently asked if I think such-and-such vehicle will pull a certain trailer, and my answer is, "yes it will pull it, but you probably won't enjoy it, or do it very long." I'm sure you are aware of threads where I have posted pictures of accidents that were at least contributed to by a less than ideal tow vehicle.
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Old 05-10-2013, 04:03 AM   #28
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