Towing Large With A 1/2 Ton Truck?

[noreen&sal]

My DW made these "Christmas cookies". She's not fooling me. And you think you know somebody after 49 years. Sal

[SteveH]

OK, back on topic, sort of....I've worn out two calculators and cannot make the numbers work out with a 1/2 ton truck. The payload capacity is just not there when you start out with 1100 lbs of tongue weight.

Found a deal on a '12 Ram 2500 Crew cab with the Cummins, and might be able to get it the end of this coming week. It's not what I started out searching for, but at least I don't have to worry if it will carry the weight, or pull the load.

[BillTex]

Originally Posted by SteveH

OK, back on topic, sort of....I've worn out two calculators and cannot make the numbers work out with a 1/2 ton truck. The payload capacity is just not there when you start out with 1100 lbs of tongue weight.

Found a deal on a '12 Ram 2500 Crew cab with the Cummins, and might be able to get it the end of this coming week. It's not what I started out searching for, but at least I don't have to worry if it will carry the weight, or pull the load.

Yes...that is one reason Folks end up with HD trucks. Payload (TW, etc) becomes a big issue.
I still can't figure out why you are getting rid of the 08?
Me thinks you just want a new truck...

Good luck.

B

[SteveH]

Originally Posted by BillTex

Yes...that is one reason Folks end up with HD trucks. Payload (TW, etc) becomes a big issue.
I still can't figure out why you are getting rid of the 08?
Me thinks you just want a new truck...

Good luck.

B

Bill,

I know lots of folks would not understand my reasons, but some are 112,000 miles, urea, steering gearbox play, and yes, I want to enjoy a new truck with more features and creature comforts.

And last, usually no one trades vehicles unless they MUST, or they believe they are getting a good deal. I prefer to trade before I MUST.

Regards,
Steve

[BillTex]

Originally Posted by SteveH

Bill,

I know lots of folks would not understand my reasons, but some are 112,000 miles, urea, steering gearbox play, and yes, I want to enjoy a new truck with more features and creature comforts.

And last, usually no one trades vehicles unless they MUST, or they believe they are getting a good deal. I prefer to trade before I MUST.

Regards,
Steve

Is Cummins still urea free?
Funny how they could figure it out but GM and Ford still use urea absorbtion/burn off to meet emmission standard.
I never did understand that...

The "infamous" GM steering knock...your dealer should be familiar with this...have them tighten it up.

Good luck, let us know how you like towing with the Dodge tranny versus the Alli.

B

[SteveH]

Yes, the 2012 Cummins is urea free, but not the 13's when they come out.

I don't have the "knock", but play in the gear box, and it cannot be removed, only replaced. And, a new gear box is either not available, or too expensive for the dealers to sell, so you can only get a rebuilt one, which many on the Diesel forum say will probably have even more play than the one I have. But, that was only a minor issue in the decision.

Regards,
Steve

[bwoodtx]

And I thought you just wanted to haul more popcorn!!!

[crisen]

Originally Posted by BillTex

Is Cummins still urea free?
Funny how they could figure it out but GM and Ford still use urea absorbtion/burn off to meet emmission standard.
I never did understand that...

B

The 2007.5 thru 2012 Dodge/Cummins system is really a Mercedes design, remember Chrysler was owned by Daimler-Benz at the time this truck was developed. At least the first trucks with this system had a BLUETec badge on the tailgate to identify the system. My understanding of the basis of the system is a DPF, or diesel particulate filter, it filters out the particulate emissions and when the computer senses that the filter needs cleaning it regenerates. This process involves dumping more fuel to increase the temp in the DPF and burning off the particulates. When these trucks first came out they had lots of issues with trucks that spent a lot of the time in city driving/idling/not towing. The filters needed regenerating a lot in these conditions and the turbos were prone to issues requiring them to be cleaned also O2 sensors were sooting up. My 2008 has had one update to the software on this. I have never had any of the above problems with 66,000 on odometer, but probably at least 40 percent of those miles have been towing. We towed over 18,000 in the last year alone.

[SteveH]

Originally Posted by bwoodtx

And I thought you just wanted to haul more popcorn!!!

Dang, Bruce! You're wise to my madness!

Actually, I've found out that popcorn produces a gas that is lighter than air and would actully help with the weight problem.

[SteveH]

Originally Posted by crisen

The 2007.5 thru 2012 Dodge/Cummins system is really a Mercedes design, remember Chrysler was owned by Daimler-Benz at the time this truck was developed. At least the first trucks with this system had a BLUETec badge on the tailgate to identify the system. My understanding of the basis of the system is a DPF, or diesel particulate filter, it filters out the particulate emissions and when the computer senses that the filter needs cleaning it regenerates. This process involves dumping more fuel to increase the temp in the DPF and burning off the particulates. When these trucks first came out they had lots of issues with trucks that spent a lot of the time in city driving/idling/not towing. The filters needed regenerating a lot in these conditions and the turbos were prone to issues requiring them to be cleaned also O2 sensors were sooting up. My 2008 has had one update to the software on this. I have never had any of the above problems with 66,000 on odometer, but probably at least 40 percent of those miles have been towing. We towed over 18,000 in the last year alone.

All of the 2007.5-ON Diesel trucks have the DPF system.

[Gene]

Originally Posted by SteveH

However, there seems to be a lot of folks today that feel the late model 1/2 ton trucks have capabilities not seen in the past below the 3/4 ton level, and it's a fact the newer trucks do have higher tow ratings than in the past.

Steve

Yes, the newer 1/2 tons can do more, but other than towing a space shuttle (I wonder what the tongue wt. of a space shuttle is?), there is a limit and you are correct.

Can you hold out for another year? Trucks are going to have to have better gas mileage and that may be worth waiting for. The new Tundras apparently are coming out for the 2014 models and maybe they will have a 3/4 ton or better capacity for the 1/2 ton. Our double cab has the 6/5' bed and between 1,500 and 1,600 cargo capacity. The payload differs a lot according to the specific model. Gas tank is small, but it makes us stop more and exercise our legs and backs, so that is a mixed thing. When in remote areas, we carry a couple of gas cans and rarely need them. I understand that the Tundra would be living on the edge of capacity, but maybe it will get better with the 2014 redesign.

Among other things, we buy for reliability and it is hard to beat Toyota at that. After several years where they were slipping on reliability, it seems they realized reliability is what got them where they are.

Gene

[crisen]

Originally Posted by SteveH

All of the 2007.5-ON Diesel trucks have the DPF system.

I don't believe the 2013 will have a DPF and Urea but haven't read up on the changes with the '13 models.

[SteveH]

Originally Posted by crisen

I don't believe the 2013 will have a DPF and Urea but haven't read up on the changes with the '13 models.

I am told the '13 Ram Diesels WILL have urea.

[SteveH]

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

Yes, the newer 1/2 tons can do more, but other than towing a space shuttle (I wonder what the tongue wt. of a space shuttle is?), there is a limit and you are correct.

Can you hold out for another year? Trucks are going to have to have better gas mileage and that may be worth waiting for. The new Tundras apparently are coming out for the 2014 models and maybe they will have a 3/4 ton or better capacity for the 1/2 ton. Our double cab has the 6/5' bed and between 1,500 and 1,600 cargo capacity. The payload differs a lot according to the specific model. Gas tank is small, but it makes us stop more and exercise our legs and backs, so that is a mixed thing. When in remote areas, we carry a couple of gas cans and rarely need them. I understand that the Tundra would be living on the edge of capacity, but maybe it will get better with the 2014 redesign.

Gene

Gene, any way I figure it we have a payload of 1600 to 1800 lbs in the truck whenever we have the trailer in tow. Yes, a 1/2 ton would do it IF you changed the tires to heavier ones, did some suspension "upgrades", but what about all the rest of the truck, and it's reliablity with that kind of constant load?

Anyway, the decision has been made, and later this week I should have the Ram 2500.

Regards,
Steve

[bwoodtx]

Originally Posted by SteveH

Dang, Bruce! You're wise to my madness!

Actually, I've found out that popcorn produces a gas that is lighter than air and would actully help with the weight problem.

I'm thinkin' that is the Shiner Bock

[SteveH]

Originally Posted by bwoodtx

I'm thinkin' that is the Shiner Bock

Maybe the combo, but the SB never did it before.

[Gene]

Originally Posted by SteveH

Gene, any way I figure it we have a payload of 1600 to 1800 lbs in the truck whenever we have the trailer in tow. Yes, a 1/2 ton would do it IF you changed the tires to heavier ones, did some suspension "upgrades", but what about all the rest of the truck, and it's reliablity with that kind of constant load?

Anyway, the decision has been made, and later this week I should have the Ram 2500.

Regards,
Steve

The decision has been made and I understand it. I put better tires on the Tundra, but don't want to do any suspension changes. The driveline components look like they could handle big loads, but I can't prove it. We have enough in the truck when we travel that we are maxed out and have had no problems with 80,000+ miles, but you take a chance that wear is going to catch up with you eventually.

Good luck with your Dodge.

Gene

[switz]

At the stroke of midnight tonight, 31dec2012, Dpdge can no longer make diesel trucks without urea. That is why they are still making 2012 models until the bell rings in Times Square tonight. Get a 2012 diesel before they are gone!

[SteveH]

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

The decision has been made and I understand it. I put better tires on the Tundra, but don't want to do any suspension changes. The driveline components look like they could handle big loads, but I can't prove it. We have enough in the truck when we travel that we are maxed out and have had no problems with 80,000+ miles, but you take a chance that wear is going to catch up with you eventually.

Good luck with your Dodge.

Gene

Keep in mind, Gene, you are towing a 7300 GVW trailer, and I a 10,000.

[TouringDan]

Originally Posted by CrawfordGene

Can you hold out for another year? Trucks are going to have to have better gas mileage and that may be worth waiting for. The new Tundras apparently are coming out for the 2014 models and maybe they will have a 3/4 ton or better capacity for the 1/2 ton. Our double cab has the 6/5' bed and between 1,500 and 1,600 cargo capacity. The payload differs a lot according to the specific model.

Gene

Gene

I hope you are correct in your hope that the payload will increase, but I seriously doubt it. The average consumer/TT owner is clueless about payload and GVWR. He is only concerned about the max weight trailer that the manufacturer says the truck will tow. The max trailer weight for my Tundra is 10,000 lbs, but I am exceeding the Tundra GVWR when fully loaded pulling my 5,000 lb Tradewind.

I think that only some suspension upgrades and rear axle and wheel upgrades would be required to increase the payload significantly. Other than that I am quite happy with the truck as is (oh, and please provide a locker rear end).

Steve

Good luck on your Dodge 2500 TD. This is a good thread. Thanks for starting it.

Dan