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Old 03-23-2006, 09:18 PM   #15
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hey canoe str' welcome back.....

broadband siberia huh?......bummer.....

the i.v. is open now......ahhhhhhhhh, better.

i was just surprised to read you down on gcwr....
since it seems to be the one big/all everything figure...
that we don't want to exceed....and really at 80% or so...

and we now need read the towing figures differently for vw, honda and some others...
because they are figured after loading the t.v.....the touareg for example is 7000+lbs after being maxed out inside/on top of the beast....

i think we are going to see many more models rated for towing....with the t.v. full of stuff.

which brings us back to gcwr....the full load, everything the real deal.

welcome back to hi speed digital dialog

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Old 03-23-2006, 10:08 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by chuck
Personally, I think these "ratings" are nothing more than arbitrary numbers that indicate more what the factory is willing to absorb in terms of liability than anything resembling the vehicle's true capabilities. They're not based on anything concrete; if you exceed them, you won't turn into a pumpkin.
Arbitrary Ratings: Tell that to the judge who is hearing the case when you are being sued for killing or injuring someone as you tried to avoid an accident that you did not even cause and I bet the outcome would be the same as if you drove the family car around knowing the brakes did not work; that being you will more than likely be found guilty of gross/criminal negligence or worse.

It seems to me that driving a rig that is over the vehicle's gross weight, (knowingly or unknowingly), combined or otherwise, and being involved in an accident would leave you open to major liability in a court of law. Even if the accident/incident is not your fault, it would be a hard position to defend.

You may not even have to hurt someone outside of your vehicle to be brought before the judge. Injure or kill a family member in your own car through ciminal negligence, (driving without brakes; driving under the influence; driving over gross), and the state might prosecute criminally.

All the legal hassles aside, what's your family worth?
What's your peace of mind worth?

We all take risks every day all the time. The object is to manage the risk and bring it down to an acceptable level that makes the activity's outcome to safely end in our favor. It is probably safer for me to stay home and watch Jerry Springer on the television than to pull my 31' travel trailer down I-80. However, Springer doesn't interest me as much as western Montana, so I have a tow vehicle which is designed to safely handle the task of towing in the Rocky Mountains and TiVo Springer for when I get back home.

Do the research and do what's right. Get the tow vehicle that will safely and legally handle the trailer you hope to buy, or buy a lighter trailer that your current tow vehicle is safely designed to tow.

86' 31' Sovereign
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Old 05-15-2006, 01:44 PM   #17
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Thank you for the informative responses.

I too have a Pilot (2004) and have been wondering if towing any size of Airstream was a realistic proposition. The Pilot's weakness is the Aisin transmission, which makes for smooth shifts but can be overheated long before the engine is working hard.

To make matters worse we need to sleep 6, and although my 4 kids range from 10 months to 7 years, they are only going to get bigger. So it seems an impossible combo to find a large enough Airstream of any vintage that doesn't outweigh the Pilot's abilities.

Thanks all for giving me some insight.
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Old 05-15-2006, 07:02 PM   #18
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Sleepy brought up a good point. It might could do it, but it doesn't mean it would be good for it. I think this is really an irrelevent point considering the liability issues that have been brought up. You know we have the highest per capita number of lawyers in the world. If that doesn't scare you into getting a proper sized tow vehicle, I have some beach front property in AZ I'd like to sell you over the phone.
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Old 05-15-2006, 08:47 PM   #19
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A few links were given in the March posts in this thread, none of which contained any real load capacity info (curb/empty weight + load capacity = GVWR). I googled and found this on MSN. It clearly says that the Pilot maximum payload is 1323 pounds. For the purposes of normal handling, anticipated mechanical wear, design of the suspension, emergency maneuvering, and maximum braking you cannot exceed this load on or in the tow vehicle.

What makes up this load? For starters the weight of any vehicle option not a part of the base model. If a 2" hitch receiver isn't standard you just about have to begin with the 150-175# this will add. But we hardly have to go there... Sleepy, add the weights of all family members. To that add the advertised trailer hitch weight plus after-market front end trailer weight (hitch bar, weight distribution gear, LP in the tanks, spare tire if ordered -- all at least 200-300# minimum). All these weights added together are borne by your tow vehicle alone -- weight distribution gear does not throw any of that weight back to the trailer axles. The basic premise is to drive with your tow vehicle below or approaching specified load capacity (payload or whatever you call it). Let's not even talk about tow capacity when a Pilot would be so heavily overloaded before you even turn the key.

The current F150 or F250 thread has some good considerations to look at. Read between the lines because there is info that goes beyond Ford trucks. There are many members very satisfied with larger capacity vans. Your kids will grow up rapidly and I suspect you'll consider at least a 25' before you're done. Just let me say that 1/2-ton trucks/vans/Suburbans also have a very hard time fitting within TV load capacity with 6 people and a trailer that big.

You may not go any of these directions at all but please understand the first hurdle is to always fit within TV load capacity. Therein lies safety.

Tow capacity and GCWR are nothing but fluff if you aren't within TV load capacity specs! When looked at closely, it is evident manufacturers must figure tow capacity with only one thoroughbred jockey and a gallon of gas on board.... There are many Forums jokes about a certain dealer in the vicinity of our northern border that misleads people to believe that even an AMC Gremlin has enough oomph to pull an Airstream.


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