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Old 03-19-2015, 12:05 AM   #15
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The ciiiiiiiiiirle of liiiiiiiiiiiiife!

Seriously though, I've read some of Andy's articles and I can tell you that he doesn't seem like the quack he's made out to be and the notion that some of these CUVs, mini-vans and sedans can be upgraded to tow isn't totally insane. That said, I wouldn't be comfortable doing it myself. Frankly, the notion that a mechanic, no matter how skilled and how much experience he has, can more accurately determine a vehicles "true" towing capacity than the engineers that put the vehicle together. That's my choice, OP's gotta decide who he's going to listen to.
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Old 03-19-2015, 12:59 AM   #16
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Towing Capacity Questions

That is a bit simplified.

The Hyundai engineers build for the masses, the "mechanic" logically designs a package to modify a combination to meet a specific end.

Actual experience tackling issues and problems may be frowned upon some, but in the end this is where the rubber meets the road. Besides, who designed GM's ignition switches? Mechanics or engineers?


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Old 03-19-2015, 07:37 AM   #17
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I am with Wingeezer on this one. I've towed with all sorts of vehicles. Recently a 1/2 Ton F150, then an F250 Diesel and now an F350 Diesel. Bigger as you can tell each time. The F350 does a much better job than the F250. The only change I've made was to replace the OEM 26 Gallon fuel tank with a Titam 50 Gallon while we were in Florida vising friends without the AS. Nations Ford did it in St Petersburg, have put 2,000 miles on her since then, performs great - 900 miles between fill ups, NOT TOWING. Only problem now is fill ups take longer and are much more expensive, but we do have the luxury of picking our fuel stops.

I would not tow with a Sante Fe. Friends have one, they do not tow, nice car, but as noted for us, it's so much more relaxing to not have to worry about payloads, sway, braking etc. Just go and enjoy.
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Old 03-19-2015, 10:55 AM   #18
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I'm sure someone can build a better hitch and attach it more securely to the vehicle. But can that person upgrade bearings, engine cooling, transmission cooling to handle loads and duty cycles well beyond what they were designed for.
An analogous example: in the 1980s VW came out with a new 4-cylinder Diesel engine for the Golf/Rabbit. It was very light for its output and spun at a high rpm (for a diesel). A company called Pathfinder got the bright idea of "marinizing" this engine and selling it as an auxiliary powerplant for sailboats above 40'. "Marinizing" consisted of replacing the air cooled radiator with a water cooled heat exchanger. On paper, this looked great: 50 hp from an engine that was lighter and more compact than traditional marine diesels of the era. In practice, it was a disaster. Whereas the typical automotive engine uses a small fraction of its output 90% of the time, a marine engine, not even running at WOT uses a much greater percentage of its output on a sustained basis. The VW diesel simply wasn't designed for that level of service. Or, put differently, a 350 hp gas engine designed to be put in a car is not the same as a 350 hp gas engine designed to be put in a truck. An example: Ford's 6.2 liter gas engine was, until this year, available in both the F-150 and F-250 trucks. But the F-250 version was rated at less hp than the F-150 version, no doubt on the assumption of a higher duty cycle in the heavier truck and consequent modification to the internals of the engine. Similarly, the reason for the relatively larger radiators on trucks vs. cars with the same hp engine is the expectation of a higher duty cycle for the engine in truck service necessitating the greater heat dissipation of the larger radiator.
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Old 03-19-2015, 11:36 AM   #19
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That is a bit simplified.
...Besides, who designed GM's ignition switches? Mechanics or engineers?
Neither - it was either the accountants or the lawyers....
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Old 03-19-2015, 11:54 AM   #20
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I'm sure someone can build a better hitch and attach it more securely to the vehicle. But can that person upgrade bearings, engine cooling, transmission cooling to handle loads and duty cycles well beyond what they were designed for.
An analogous example: in the 1980s VW came out with a new 4-cylinder Diesel engine for the Golf/Rabbit. It was very light for its output and spun at a high rpm (for a diesel). A company called Pathfinder got the bright idea of "marinizing" this engine and selling it as an auxiliary powerplant for sailboats above 40'. "Marinizing" consisted of replacing the air cooled radiator with a water cooled heat exchanger. On paper, this looked great: 50 hp from an engine that was lighter and more compact than traditional marine diesels of the era. In practice, it was a disaster. Whereas the typical automotive engine uses a small fraction of its output 90% of the time, a marine engine, not even running at WOT uses a much greater percentage of its output on a sustained basis. The VW diesel simply wasn't designed for that level of service.
Yes, it is reasonably straightforward to design and construct a more robust hitch, particularly for a supplier that has been doing it for decades, and that is usually the first step.

No need to worry about axle bearings if you stay within the design axle load limits.

If you are referring to engine and drivetrain bearings, then the enemy is heat. There are a wide range of additional coolers available if they are required. It is the same approach the pickup truck manufacturers take, adding in additional coolers.

I don't think your VW diesel story is analogous. Today, VW offers a complete line of marine diesels based on their TDI engines. They were distributed by Cummins, but now by Mercury Marine. The difference with your example is that now they have appropriately sized heat exchangers. Heat exchanger sizing isn't based on duty cycle, but rather peak load heat rejection.

It is precisely because the duty cycle is so low for a passenger vehicle or light truck that towing isn't generally limited by engine or drivetrain wear.

For the OP, checking transmission temperatures or adding an additional transmission cooler for insurance purposes would be a reasonable approach. And probably cheaper than buying a large pickup truck.

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Old 03-19-2015, 11:55 AM   #21
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I see the advice to go bigger bigger bigger is from people towing 30ft Airstreams. I have a 17ft Airstream and we actually went down in size, because our 1/2T van seemed like overkill. We've been very happy, and Andrew at CanAm was really helpful in my research to pick out a vehicle. We have some issues with this particular vehicle's quality control, but it has been towing great. I would second the advice to talk to Andrew, he is really helpful, and I am convinced he knows his stuff better than just about anyone else around.
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Old 03-19-2015, 12:21 PM   #22
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That is a bit simplified.

Besides, who designed GM's ignition switches? Mechanics or engineers?


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Ah, probably Engineers, but the real applicable question is, who hung all the heavy dongles on the key ring that causes the switch to fail?

Users. Granted, the Engineers should have calculated that, but still....
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Old 03-19-2015, 01:14 PM   #23
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I sometimes wonder if the bean counters have more power than quality control.
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Old 03-19-2015, 01:49 PM   #24
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Ah, probably Engineers, but the real applicable question is, who hung all the heavy dongles on the key ring that causes the switch to fail?

Users. Granted, the Engineers should have calculated that, but still....

Not to mention the 1000s of other parts they designed for the vehicles that haven't failed. The fact that the ignition switch failure is a big deal is partly because these guys don't screw up most of the time.
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Old 03-19-2015, 02:15 PM   #25
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Towing Capacity Questions

I guess I have a problem with the way Andy and CanAm are frequently dog piled on by people who are not their customers while every one of their customers I have seen post are very satisfied.

It is kind of like rational explanation and reason is set aside by a kind of "mob rule".

The result is that where Andy and CanAm could provide input to people who could use it, it is just too much of a hassle and battle for him to participate.

Too bad.


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Old 03-19-2015, 03:08 PM   #26
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Hi, Brian; Are you sure you're from Canada?
Heheh!

Well, actually UK a long time ago!


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Old 03-19-2015, 05:14 PM   #27
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And meaning absolutely no disrespect whatsoever to Andy, whereas Canadians seem to have a reputation for towing with smaller vehicles, I am one Canadian who is firmly in the opposite camp!

I have progressively towed with larger and larger vehicles, moving from a Safari AWD minivan to a 1/2 ton truck to a 3/4 ton diesel truck

With each move, I have found the towing experience to be much more relaxing. I also now tow with a Hensley hitch - no doubt that, or a similar Pro-pride hitch designed on a similar basis further enhance the towing experience.

Apart from the physical increased comfort in towing, to me there is also a mental aspect!

From a possible liability aspect, I like to know that my tow vehicle is rated by the manufacturer to be capable of towing what I do in fact tow by a considerable margin - just in case.

For me, the peace of mind is worth it! Others may feel that this is meaningless.

You "Pays your money and takes your choice" as the expression goes! Not saying anyone is wrong! This can be a rather contentious subject!

The other thing for our style of camping is that we tend to take a lot of "stuff" with us on or trips. I have a Leer cap on the bed of our truck, so the truck as well as the back seat area (It is a crew cab) serves as the "basement" for our trailer and keeps the trailer relatively clutter-free on our trips.

Brian.
Do you really think this is relevant to the OP when you're towing a 30 foot classic?
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Old 03-20-2015, 06:47 AM   #28
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Do you really think this is relevant to the OP when you're towing a 30 foot classic?
If he will be towing at over the rated capacity of his tow vehicle - then yes, otherwise I wouldn't have offered the comment!

I have also towed 20' and 27' trailers with both smaller/shorter wheelbase as well as larger/longer wheelbase vehicles and every time, found the latter be much more enjoyable in every resect and offering a greater feeling of safety.

Maybe just my perception but that's me!

I also use a Hensley hitch for the same reason.

There certainly are some disadvantages to the larger vehicles, but on balance, I'm ok with that!

Brian.
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