Towing and Hauling

[kscherzi]

The idea of loading a Harley into a pickup bed is a accident waiting to happen, likely a bad one. I suggest skipping the Airstream and buying a toy hauler.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by kscherzi

The idea of loading a Harley into a pickup bed is a accident waiting to happen, likely a bad one. I suggest skipping the Airstream and buying a toy hauler.

Why is that????? Assuming proper tie downs and proper CA dimension....and payload capacity.

[xrvr]

It's getting the bike into the bed that is hard, up the ramps. Jim

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by zigzagguzzi

It's getting the bike into the bed that is hard, up the ramps. Jim

I used a modified ATV winch.....even with my 200 lb scooter with no clutch and with variators. Sooner or later, I will trip while loading and unloading...just a matter of time. The winch keeps everything slow and easy and I can stop half way up or down and adjust stuff if needed.

[xrvr]

Good idea, but the winch just adds more weight. I may try a winch next tine we take the Vespas. Peace,jim

[dznf0g]

Yup, more weight, but running it up started to give me the same feeling as I get when I am one rung too high up at the end of a ladder.....if that makes sense.
Mine is a cheap 2000lb ATV winch from Farm and Fleet. I fabbed a wooden platform for the winch that fits down into the front bed rail corner pocket. The opposite pocket has a quick mount pocket tie down. I have a soft strap on the bike and a snatch pulley, so the line is in a vee from the bike to the pockets.

[featherbedder]

Originally Posted by kscherzi

The idea of loading a Harley into a pickup bed is a accident waiting to happen, likely a bad one. I suggest skipping the Airstream and buying a toy hauler.

I differ as to mc in bed of pick up. When my 2 sons pro. motorcycle raced we put 1 750 harley 1 600 single cyl. race bike & 1 500 single cyl. yamaha race bike plus tools, gear, tires etc. in bed of pu. w/no prob. also sandwiched mini bike in to. Pulled 31 AS with 4 door chev. 3500 w/454 gas eng. not dually and never prob. except gas mileage. Yes they will fit in 8 ft. bed. only items placed in AS were race clothing plus usual camping stuff etc. At that time they raced all over US on dirt tracks.

[Bill M.]

How much are you going to move around? How far each leg? Time to spare? I would get a 250 something. In fact I pull a 25' with a diesel. gets 20 empty and 15 pulling. But if you would rather have the 150 you could make two trips each time you move the whole outfit. Maybe pull the bike on a trailer so you could still have a bed cover. Probably be a lot cheaper in the long run to do it that way.

[kscherzi]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

Why is that????? Assuming proper tie downs and proper CA dimension....and payload capacity.

Getting a 600 lb bike up and down a steep ramp on tailgate without it tipping over. Expecially if alone. My guess it would be too heavy to push so (1) ride it up or (2) stand next to it while slipping the clutch and walking it up. Both options scare me.

[dznf0g]

Originally Posted by kscherzi

Getting a 600 lb bike up and down a steep ramp on tailgate without it tipping over. Expecially if alone. My guess it would be too heavy to push so (1) ride it up or (2) stand next to it while slipping the clutch and walking it up. Both options scare me.

That's what the small winch is for!
(But I really thought you meant it is unsafe to drive with a bike in the bed)

[cwf]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

That's what the small winch is for!
(But I really thought you meant it is unsafe to drive with a bike in the bed)

One of these

http://www.motorcycletrailer.com/rampage/

[cwf]

Regarding "overloading... Here is one instance you can read about.

05 F350 + 14K trailer = $3,400 fine in PA - Page 2 - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums

Now, if someone has access to actual court databases, I bet you will find instances... Perhaps not widespread, where officers "enforce" at discretion... They are usually very good at it. But they, too, are flawed human beings.

I have heard that our society is quite "litigious"... It is one reason we have almost run General Aviation out of the country. It is why Ford had issues with the "Explorers" and "pinto".. Not to pick on Ford, GM had their "Corvair" and others....

The point being, the engineers and LAWYERS set the limits.... If we operate outside the design limits, we own it.

[Lance M]

Originally Posted by cwf

Regarding "overloading... Here is one instance you can read about.

05 F350 + 14K trailer = $3,400 fine in PA - Page 2 - Ford Truck Enthusiasts Forums

Not an RV. They were fined because they were a commercial business using their F350 and horse trailer to attend horse shows.

A far cry from an F150 or F250 towing an Airstream with a motorcycle in the bed for personal recreation.

[Silverfan]

I have loaded my Harley plenty. That is not a worry. I have a fat bob. Full wet weight 706. I will be moving unloading and staying for a couple weeks per location. Then driving all over. I drive about 40k a year. There may only be a few trips with the Harley. Not every time will I have that. I know it complicates things.
I don't want a toy hauler with a nasty graphics on the side. I like clean.

[featherbedder]

Originally Posted by dznf0g

No question,, Ruler, but OP states "Harley". That beckons other "stuff" comes along.
First, is it really 700#s? He doesn't say what model, but 700#s seems light.
Ramps?
Wheel fixture hold down device?
Accessories, leathers, helmets. stuff in MC trunks?

Other camping gear loaded in truck? He also states a 3/4 time lifestyle. That beckons weight gain as well.

My ONLY point, is to demonstrate the sneaky behavior of TV weight gain.
Borrow a truck, load it and scale it, is the only accurate answer here.

Rich is GMC fact. rep so he should no 3500 chev. is 1 ton not 3/4 model also Harley 750 is XR750 that Harley made for pro. racing not wght. of bike plus no camping gear in truck, so read carefully before you find fault. My sons very capable of loading bikes w/out ramps plus no saddle bags on race bikes.Ther are many things we do as to loading, to many to list here. My intention of post was you do not need fancy dually or other to haul bikes w/AS but spec truck for useage .......Bill

[Ampman]

Go for a 3/4 ton if your gonna haul all that weight in the bed. Will have all the capacity you need plus the heavier duty brakes, transmission, driveline etc. Better than running at max capacity of a 1/2 ton all the time. I've been using a 2012 F-250 CC 4x4 6.2L with an 05 25' Classic. Always load the truck to the max because I take too much junk every time. Pulls and stops great. Very comfortable ride.


Sent from my iPhone using Airstream Forums

[mikebee]

Originally Posted by AWCHIEF

To back up all these legal claims can anyone site actual case law where a judge has found that if a privately owned travel trailer owner overloaded said travel trailer or tow vehicle and was involved in an accident or had a warrenty claim and was found quilty or at fault of any crimes or that warrenty was voided?

Quoting Internet discussions or commercial vehicle statues does not count.

Unless the judge is the trier of fact, a jury is typically who would issue a verdict regarding disputed facts -- i.e. whether the overloading caused the accident or injuries. Since I have access to Westlaw (guess my profession), I thought I'd do a favor and post some exemplar California case law.

Attached as a PDF is a 2008 court of appeal opinion in California which indicates that a jury returned a verdict in favor of the defendant Michelin North America. The plaintiff claimed that the tire delaminated while he was driving, causing him to lose control and sustain a head trauma. Don't be distracted by the issues about a mistress -- the facts are there to show that one can lose a lawsuit if the payload rating is exceeded.

An engineer reconstructed the accident and determined that the payload for a failed tire exceeded the rating by 560 pounds. The engineer could not say that the weight, or any particular weight, caused the tire to fail. A tire expert opined that the tire failed because the vehicle was overloaded.

After two days of jury deliberations, the jury agreed and issued a verdict that there was no manufacturing or design defect in the failed tire. Obviously, the jury accepted the argument that the tire was overloaded and the plaintiff was himself negligent and/or caused the tire failure.

Hope this helps to settle the debate.

[Adam Geuss]

Originally Posted by mikebee

Unless the judge is the trier of fact, a jury is typically who would issue a verdict regarding disputed facts -- i.e. whether the overloading caused the accident or injuries. Since I have access to Westlaw (guess my profession), I thought I'd do a favor and post some exemplar California case law.

Attached as a PDF is a 2008 court of appeal opinion in California which indicates that a jury returned a verdict in favor of the defendant Michelin North America. The plaintiff claimed that the tire delaminated while he was driving, causing him to lose control and sustain a head trauma. Don't be distracted by the issues about a mistress -- the facts are there to show that one can lose a lawsuit if the payload rating is exceeded.

An engineer reconstructed the accident and determined that the payload for a failed tire exceeded the rating by 560 pounds. The engineer could not say that the weight, or any particular weight, caused the tire to fail. A tire expert opined that the tire failed because the vehicle was overloaded.

After two days of jury deliberations, the jury agreed and issued a verdict that there was no manufacturing or design defect in the failed tire. Obviously, the jury accepted the argument that the tire was overloaded and the plaintiff was himself negligent and/or caused the tire failure.

Hope this helps to settle the debate.

Thank you for the review and analysis. It fits my sense of logic regarding situations wherein a products design limits have been exceeded and an accident is involved. I would hope and I believe most folk would not and do not purposefully use their "possessions" to perform tasks outside the capability of the item as described by the product manufacturer. Why would one?


I can see someone not being aware of the "overloaded" TT tires for example...I admit to not checking myself but I also recognize that I am guilty if something were to happen. In Europe where we loved for 20 plus years I know for certain infractions such as these are prosecuted. Overload a trailer and cause an accident and you pay stiff penalties.


We try to buy and use "stuff" well within the expressed parameters established by the manufacturer. Overkill I admit as a means to protect ourselves from inadvertent misuse. Our way.

[FishinHatteras]

Thanks Mike for posting this. A good read for sure. Coming from a family of many lawyers, it never ceases to amaze me the level of stupidity that some folks drag into a court room. Glad to see the defendant won in this case. I feel bad that they had to spend thousands of dollars proving that, had the plaintiff followed the instructions on the tires usage, there would have been NO ACCIDENT. There are absolutely no limits to stupidity.
Sea ya down the road,
Gavin

[r carl]

Originally Posted by kscherzi

Getting a 600 lb bike up and down a steep ramp on tailgate without it tipping over. Expecially if alone. My guess it would be too heavy to push so (1) ride it up or (2) stand next to it while slipping the clutch and walking it up. Both options scare me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bME88ZoFmAA