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Old 11-20-2006, 07:44 PM   #15
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The other interesting thing to note on the highlander is the gas only v6
verses the hybrid v6 gets better mileage on the road mostly .A customer of mine bought both and the gas only gets better mileage all around than the hybrid .This is becoming common knowledge these days as the hybrids are not getting near the claimed mileage as they are said to. they are great in town ,the highway mileage is not ,this is a known fact .all the extra weight
with the electric motors and battery pack and the special cvt trans all take
away from fuel mileage on the highway because your then just carring all of
the extra weight,in town the electric systems do more and the mileage goes up .Ive been involved in good hybrid tech classes and continue the education thru each manafacturers hybrid offerings as the technician classes come up.I agree also that moving weight behind the trailer axle to offset the
tongue weight is not recommended ,it worked in this case ,but the ideal
scenario is to have the TV be capable of handling the tongue weight thats
designed into the trailer in the first place.It would be interesting to know what effect the WD has on the weight distribution with the hybrid and what
the tongue weight is when the weight becomes distributed across the axles

Scott
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Old 11-20-2006, 08:23 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickcrowhurst
I certainly agree that the thread doesn't address (or solve) the problem faced by a 16' Bambi owner.
As a fellow enthusiast for careful measurement and calculation, you might like to look at this thread:
http://www.airforums.com/forum...sis-19236.html?
It's not directly related to this issue, but it might be of interest.
Nick.
It is a GREAT post (and thread)....thanks. I had read the 'Weight Distribution (WD) Hitch --- How it Works' post on rv.net and did the calculations to find the relative proportions of the WD hitch lift/loads...but did not know how to figure out what the actual load was. Plugging in my numbers into your equations I find that my WD hitch front axle load is 202 lbs, my trailer axle load is 119 lbs, and my rear axle lift is 321 lbs - changing the load from the Bambi on my rear axle from 602 lbs to 281 lbs. Very cool.
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Old 11-20-2006, 08:27 PM   #17
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Excellent! It's always rewarding to know one's work is not wasted.
Nick.
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Old 11-20-2006, 08:51 PM   #18
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The Wd definately does work well as shown by cutting the 600 # in half.
Im wondering what the load capacity is on the rear suspension /bearings etc.
How much weight can the vehical support on the rear end ?

Scott
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Old 11-20-2006, 08:54 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottanlily
I agree also that moving weight behind the trailer axle to offset the tongue weight is not recommended ,it worked in this case ,but the ideal scenario is to have the TV be capable of handling the tongue weight thats designed into the trailer in the first place.
The problem isn't that the 16' Bambi tongue weight is too big for the tow vehicle...it is that the tongue weight is too big for the trailer. Even if I was towing with a V10 diesel pickup I'd still be loading as much weight as I could to the rear of the Bambi's axle to counterbalance the excess weight the Bambi carries forward of its axle.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scottanlily
It would be interesting to know what effect the WD has on the weight distribution with the hybrid and what the tongue weight is when the weight becomes distributed across the axles
Scott
Thanks to nickcrowhurst I can now tell you - the load on my rear axle goes from 602 lbs to 281 lbs.
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Old 11-20-2006, 09:23 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottanlily
The Wd definately does work well as shown by cutting the 600 # in half. Im wondering what the load capacity is on the rear suspension /bearings etc. How much weight can the vehical support on the rear end ?
Scott
That I don't know. I know that when the WD bars are installed the front wheel well, rear wheel well, and hitch receiver height are exactly the same height as with no trailer attached. Without the WD bars installed the hitch receiver drops more than 3 inches.

I also know that the HiHy's payload is 1430lbs - more than sufficient for us, our luggage, our fuel/liquids, and our tongue weight.

I also know that both the 6 cyl Highlander and the HiHy are officially rated at 3500lbs max towing capacity...even though the HiHy has an extra pair of electric motors with a combined 343 lb. ft. of torque. Which is probably why the HiHy was so pleasant to drive even though I am bumping up against it's 'max tow capacity'.
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Old 11-21-2006, 01:43 AM   #21
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The payload then is 1430 ,your good there ,but I wouldn't recommend loading
up the rear too much . As for the torque from the electric motors ,you are correct ,they have instant torque and right now ,one neat thing on the highlander .One of the motors starts the gas engine at 1000 rpm immediately
when required and no external starter motor like the gas only engines.its so fast all you know is its instantly running. One important hybrid thing to remember is ,especially on toyota hybrids you have only a few miles on the battery power alone 3 or 4 ,Yes thats right ,these aren't electric only so the
battery packs run down fast ,once depleated ,your done and its tow to the dealer for a 2 day recharge of the battery pack or exchange pack at 350.00
depending on the dealership .No plugging it in to the wall ,the electric motors
charge the battery pack continuousely as does the braking effort also .Did
you know that the first bit of braking your not braking ,the electric motor
is charging the batteries and it is designed to slow the car as if your braking
then your actually are applying the brakes as the car slows further.They give
you a false feel so that nothing seems unusuall when braking ,this is built in from the factory so you think your braking the car at first so you dont think
the brakes are not working correctly ,all in what we are used to on regular
braking systems ,called regenerative braking .Also,as per my earlier comment on the battery draining down ,only if you run the car out of gas
,some don't realize that and think if it runs out you can just drive on along till you get a chance for fuel ,not so and will cost you .there are some other
cautions to know ,like do not mess with anything under the hood ,orange
cable under the hood is high voltage in a hybrid (as in it will kill you)or the
battery pack in the trunk .Im required to wear 1000 volt saftey gloves to
even work on one ,and the rule is on a hybrid, one hand in your pocket if
you are touching anything under the trunk or hood (no path to ground).
Last thing to offer ,never ever leave the hybrid key or the newer key fob
in the ignition or ignition slot ,the car can start and drive off ,some models
don't have a park lever and it spells trouble,the car can auto start when the batterys are at 40 to 60% ,they don't have to be down too far as the
computer in the car will start it to charge them on its own if the key is in it .
careful of the 16ft away remote start in your pocket as well .Ive kinda went on here ,but some important things to watch for .

scott of scottanlily
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Old 11-21-2006, 08:14 AM   #22
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Another tid-bit. My golf cart has regenerative braking. It's not as new of a technology as the auto industry would have us think. My cart is a '03 and when researching I discovered this and wondered why couldn't they put this in electric cars. Not long after I read Toyota was going to put the technology to use in "hybrid" cars. E-Z-Go has had it in their golf carts as standard since the mid '90's.

Also, hybrids were pretty common or at least common for the day, in the early 20th century. Weight and limited battery life made them impractical so early cars became internal combustion only by the mid-teens.
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Old 11-21-2006, 11:52 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljmiii
That I don't know. I know that when the WD bars are installed the front wheel well, rear wheel well, and hitch receiver height are exactly the same height as with no trailer attached. Without the WD bars installed the hitch receiver drops more than 3 inches.
I have been watching this post with interest, pretty cool to tow with a small hybrid!
I do get a little concerned when someone comments that their "first tow experience" was a pleasant one, when they may not really know what an unpleasant one is...towing on the edge is not a great idea.

But any way, you did it, survived, and even enjoyed it. If you are within your limits then more power to you.

The above situation does trouble me. If you are experiencing no drop-front or rear-when hitched up, then you would have VERY minimal tongue weight (if any?). Even a 1/2 ton truck should experience some drop with this setup. Please be sure you have not shifted too much weight to the rear-this is asking for trouble(sway).
More than anything, we all want you to be safe-and have fun-on the road.

Best of luck and let us know how the hybrid holds up to tow duty!

Bill
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Old 11-21-2006, 12:34 PM   #24
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Uh... it's a SIXTEEN FOOTER...

... am I missing something or...? If it's a 16' A/S, there isn't that much space behind the axle!

I certainly agree that on a longer trailer, a heavy back end can get you the teeter-totter ride from hell, but on a 16 footer? Isn't Everything within a few feet of the axle?

Anyway enjoy your dinky twinky, and happy trails!
Paula Ford
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Old 11-21-2006, 07:16 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljmiii
Plugging in my numbers into your equations I find that my WD hitch front axle load is 202 lbs, my trailer axle load is 119 lbs, and my rear axle lift is 321 lbs - changing the load from the Bambi on my rear axle from 602 lbs to 281 lbs. Very cool.
After a bit of thought, I realized that this is probably not what is happening to my vehicle. With no weight distribution I have

Front Axle......Rear Axle.......Trailer Axle = Tongue Weight
....-202.............602................0..........= 400lbs

and nickcrowhurst's equations show what would happen if I balance the load on the front axle to 0

Front Axle......Rear Axle Trailer Axle = Tongue Weight
......0...............281...........119.....= 400lbs

But since I followed the instructions for my WD hitch - match hitch to trailer height, measure front wheel well, rear wheel well, and receiver hitch, attach trailer, and adjust until all three have dropped an equal amount - I'm probably tensioning my WD bars to distribute the weight equally between the front and rear axles.

It was easy enough to solve for an additional upward force Z on the rear axle such that the weights on the front axle and rear axle are equal:

starting Front Axle + C/(A+C) * Z = starting Rear Axle - Z
-202 + 202/321 * Z = 602 - Z
-202 + (1 + 202/321) * Z = 602
(1 + 202/321) * Z = 602 + 202
Z = (602 + 202) / (1 + 202/321)
Z = 493

THUS

Front Axle......Rear Axle.......Trailer Axle = Tongue Weight
....109..............109................182 = 400lbs

But finding a generalized equation for finding the solution for the equal front and rear axle problem has proven more difficult...and more properly belongs in nickcrowhurst's thread on load distribution hitches since I'm baseing my work on his. Follow along if you like...

http://www.airforums.com/forum...s-19236-4.html

(airstream community forums, on the road, towing, load-distribution-hitches-analysis) since my link keeps getting munched
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Old 11-21-2006, 10:44 PM   #26
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ljmiii, you know that unless you really weigh the rig and trailer hitched and tensioned on a public scale or cat scale you won't totally be certain of what
you have ,although equasions are good ,actual numbers are what you really need ,especially since your TV is on the lean edge of capacity for towing .
You do want the front and rear of the TV level ,not high in front or somehow up in the back ,due to the short wheelbase (very short) it should just go level
when hitched correctly .The whole idea is of course to distribute the tongue weight across all axles ,all will not be on the trailer or the rear or front of the TV but all the axles.when your TV is unhitched and level ,and the trailer behind it unhitched ,ball height check (correct ?)trailer also level the ball should be the same height as the tongue coupler ,so when hitched up and bars are tensioned ,the trailer and TV appear the same ,level .That ball height and coupler height need to be right within reason ,may not be exact but very close or some hitch head adjustment is needed ,lower or higher if needed.
It sounds like you have it right by your last post .But level is the key word.
You can't know weights unless its actually weighed however .But I think your
in there ok .

scott
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Old 11-22-2006, 08:20 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottanlily
ljmiii, you know that unless you really weigh the rig and trailer hitched and tensioned on a public scale or cat scale you won't totally be certain of what you have
Absolutely. I won't be able to get out to a CAT scale until after Thanksgiving weekend but I'm really looking forward to seeing the results.

Thesis and experiment...its the American way.

Having said that...more data points would be useful. Time for a new thread...;-)

thanks,
leo
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Old 11-22-2006, 08:51 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ljmiii
Having said that...more data points would be useful. Time for a new thread...;-)
New thread

http://www.airforums.com/forum...ler-28065.html
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