Towing a 25 footer in the mountains with a Suburban

[terry & pat]

I have a 1969 25 ft Trade Wind with and empty weight of 4340 lb. I am considering buying a new Suburban with a 5.3 liter gas V8 to pull it. I would like comments on how well the Suburban will do while towing across the rockies. Will I be slowed to a 20 mph crawl or just down to 45 mph or so? Also, do you recommend that I get the 4.10 rear end or can I get by with the 3.42?

[uwe]

Originally Posted by terry & pat

I have a 1969 25 ft Trade Wind with and empty weight of 4340 lb. I am considering buying a new Suburban with a 5.3 liter gas V8 to pull it. I would like comments on how well the Suburban will do while towing across the rockies. Will I be slowed to a 20 mph crawl or just down to 45 mph or so? Also, do you recommend that I get the 4.10 rear end or can I get by with the 3.42?

If you tow regularly, then the 4:10 is a good idea.
You will slow way down, probably to 30-40mph or so.
I did, when I towed my TradeWind over Wolf creek pass in Colorado with my Suburban 5.7l, with 3.73 gears. 4.10's would have been more confidence inspiring. Your 5.3 l has more hp, and moer torque than my 5.7l has. I'd say if it does not happen once a week, you should be fine.
Actually, brakes were a bigger issue for me, coming down the other side. Your future truck has much better brakes than my 1997 has.

[SilverToy]

Welcome!

I have a 01 2500HD Burb with the 6L and 3.73 gears. I tow a 34'er. It does great but the high mountains can be a chore for my combo. Not horrible but definately slower than I would like. I do not however have the gas penalty that the 8.1L motor imposes when not towing - the majority of my driving.

I really wouldn't consider any motor smaller than the 6L for towing - it is a great motor! I would also not go with anything less than the HD option - bigger radiator, Trans cooler, HD brakes/shocks/etc.... Stopping is often MORE critical than getting it moving! The 4.10 gears are also a plus and do not seem to impose a big non towing penalty. Changing over later is not practical.

There are plenty of choices in new TV(tow vehicle) for your AS. Use the search function (upper right) and type in "Tow vehicle" you will be reading all night.

Hope that helps!

Axel

[alan]

I would go with the 3/4 ton Suburban with the 6.0. I tow a 25 ft Sovereign (about 5500 lb) and am quite satisfied with the combination. I considered the 1/2 ton at the time of purchase, but decided to go 3/4 ton for the extra towing margin.

The 4L80 transmission in the 3/4 t has more torque capacity than the 4L60 in the 1/2 t (basically the same transmission as used in the Astro van). The 4L80 stays in lockup at highway speeds without "hunting". This helps the fuel economy. Currently, I am averaging about 12 mpg towing at 55 - 60 mph. Almost all trips I take see mountain grades of 6% or greater.

As someone else mentioned, the fuel economy penalty for the greater capacity of the 8.1 isn't worth it considering the percentage of my driving that is towing.

[Silvertwinkie]

I'd have to agree. The 6.0L is an all around better engine. If you said you had a Bambi or smaller/lighter or if you were not mountain towing, I'd say sure, why not. But folks here as ususal are right on. 4.10 gears and a 6.0L 3/4 ton with a 4l80e transmission is really what the doctor ordered for towing in mountains with what you've got.

I have a 3/4 ton Burb with 4.10s and it does a great job towing our 2004 Safari (6300lbs GVWR).

[JStanley]

For what its worth here are my cryptic notes on my observation. I’m looking for a new tow vehicle. Still open minded in my data gathering but focusing on a Chevy van.
First thing to do is identify your requirements as best you can.
Then have you needs justify your wants. Good luck

Observations:
A 6.0L w/ 4.10s in a 3/4 ton truck is very good.
Chevy Avalanche P/U truck is too expensive vs. Express Van
A 8.1L is too much, burns lots of gas.
Best (?) 2400HD, 6L engine, 2WD w/ 4.10 axle, can pull 12,000lbs. max

Chevy's website:
1500 2WD w/ 3.42, can pull 7,300lbs, and 8,200lbs with a 4.10 axle.
1500 4WD w/ 3.42, can pull 7,100lbs, and 7,900lbs with a 4.10 axle.
2400 4WD w/ 3.73, can pull 10,200lbs and 12,000lbs with a 4.10 axle.

[Darol Ingalls]

I don't give manufacturer's specs much credibility. They were created by sales engineers who sit at desks with computers. I doubt many of them have actually towed anything. A weak tow vehicle is like an underpowered speedboat - NO FUN.

[hookedonclassic]

We pulled our 1992 29' with a dry weight of 5600lbs this last summer up through Eisenhower tunnel west of Denver at about 10,000 ft. Glad I had the TV I had. Wouldn't want to it with anything less. Going up AND coming down. You and your vehicle will both last longer.

[Silvertwinkie]

Originally Posted by JStanley

Still open minded in my data gathering but focusing on a Chevy van.

jcanavera has a 3/4 ton GMC van (same as the Chevy). He started with a 1/2 ton, and upgraded to the 3/4 ton after he got his 2004 30' Classic slide out.

From what I can tell he loves the van and he also told me it tows the 30' slide out (note very heavy coach) very well.

[Silvertwinkie]

Originally Posted by hookedonclassic

We pulled our 1992 29' with a dry weight of 5600lbs this last summer up through Eisenhower tunnel west of Denver at about 10,000 ft. Glad I had the TV I had. Wouldn't want to it with anything less. Going up AND coming down. You and your vehicle will both last longer.

With a 34' I'd have to agree!

[air19]

I read these towing posts all the time and I am not sure why the response is always get a 3/4 ton with the bigger V8 or diesel. Going gas vs. diesel is a whole different discussion that I'm not going to get into here.

The poster is asking about a vintage 25 footer with a dry weight of 4300 lbs. That's a very different animal than a new Safari 25 footer (dry weight around 5400), a new Classic (6000), let alone the 30 to 34 footers that most of the responders are towing.

I had a 1975 Tradewind 25 footer and I towed it for four years with a 1998 Suburban 5.7L and 3.73 rear end. We went over 30,000 miles crossing the rockies a couple times every year. We weren't the fastest ones over the rockies, but we weren't the slowest.

I was always much more concerned about coming down the back side. Rule of thumb I always used was don't crest the mountain any faster than you wanted to go back down. So I didn't mind cresting at 50 MPH, cause that was my target speed going back down. Another consideration was my engine braking and where it was the strongest. The Suburban did a better job holding my speed between 40 and 50 MPH down the big grades. I had a much harder time with engine braking near 60 MPH. This varied slightly based on the grade, but it was mostly a gearing issue. And I certainly didn't want to fly down any of those grades faster than that. So hitting the top at 50 MPH was just fine.

One of my best investments was a $15 Mountain Pass book that documents all the steep grades. After a while I learned what grades I was comfortable with and I tried to avoid anything over 10%.

So my rule of thumb has been a Vintage 25 footer or less will work with a half ton Suburban. A Vintage 28 footer or more will be better served with first a long wheel based pickup, and second a re-evaluation of the weight to see if it pushes you to a 3/4 ton and bigger engine. I'm on the fence with Vintage 26 footers.

We don't talk much about the disadvantages of a 3/4 ton. The stiffer suspension will be harder on the trailer. The stiffer suspension is there all the time and when you are driving around town with the spouse it will not be as cushy as a half ton Suburban - worth considering.

When it comes to newer Airstream units, I respect all the good arguments that have been presented for 3/4 tons big blocks and I don't have a good feeling where the cutoff is 19/22 footers or 22/25 footers - it depends on many factors and I'll defer to others.

I'm just interested in more discussion about these towing recommendations before immediately jumping to the big hammer (3/4 ton big block).

- Mike

[basecamp]

I agree with air10, you don't need a 3/4 ton truck to pull your trailer. My 1/2 ton Avalanche 5.3 litre engine with a 4.10 pulled my 96 30' classic, no problem. Alot of people may not believe it but it was a great TV. I would never recommend a gear ratio less than a 3.73 The Burb is on the same frame and drive train as the Av. Don't go 3.42, you will enjoy the Burb with the 4.10 won't cost that much more in gas but you will love the performance. good luck.

[Steve Heywood]

Originally Posted by terry & pat

I have a 1969 25 ft Trade Wind with and empty weight of 4340 lb. I am considering buying a new Suburban with a 5.3 liter gas V8 to pull it. I would like comments on how well the Suburban will do while towing across the rockies. Will I be slowed to a 20 mph crawl or just down to 45 mph or so? Also, do you recommend that I get the 4.10 rear end or can I get by with the 3.42?

A 5.3 with 4.10 gears is PLENTY for your trailer. I used to tow a 19' Bambi with a 5.3 powered pickup with 3.73 gears and I had more than enough power for any situation, even when towing in The Rockies at over 10,000'.

3.42s would be marginally OK in the flatlands and miserable anywhere else.

[Silvertwinkie]

Yes, towing a Bambi is different than towing a loaded 25' coach.

When you're going into the mountains, with such a coach that is loaded, you will exceed 2.5 tons of rig behind you. A loaded Bambi is just slightly over 2 tons. True less than a new Safari, but still a good rig behind a person in the mountains. It is true that the 5.7L is a great engine. I have 2 copies of it, but I will tell you first hand that the 6.0L is a MUCH stronger engine. I agree in this particular case 8.1L or diesel is overkill, but if you have the funds and you want no question of issues going up or down mountains with 2.5 or more tons behind you, go for it. Too much tow vehicle is NOT a bad thing. In addition, the cost used or new between 1/2 ton and 3/4 is so minimal that it's hardly worth arguing about, so why not consider a better, more robust vehicle? The 5.3L will do the trick, but to compare the 5.3L 1/2 ton to the 6.0L 3/4 ton, there is just no comparison. The 6.0L is in a whole 'nuther league. BTW, the suspension in a 3/4 ton Suburban is not as still as the suspension in a 3/4 ton pickup, so the point of the 3/4 Burb being too rough is just plain untrue. Yes it's a bit stiffer than the 1/2 ton, but nothing like the pickups due to the heavier rear end.

BTW, talking GM, which we are here, when you go to 3/4 ton, you're getting upgraded axles, transmission, engine (in most cases), brakes, hubs, trans temp gauge, etc. The only GM truck that comes close is the 1500HD. Everything else is simply a 1/2 ton truck (downgraded axles, hubs, trans, brakes, no trans gauge).

There is more to the 3/4 ton than just an engine and gears.

I fully stand by my (and others recommendation) that you strongly consider a 3/4 ton w/4.10s. Will it be a bit more than you need, maybe, but I have never heard of someone that complained, man, I need to upgrade this 3/4 ton. I will again add I own 2 5.7L powered vehicles with 4l60es and the same driveline and one 6.0L 3/4 ton Suburban. I'm speaking from personal exp. having towed weights similar or greater than your situation. I fully disagree with Steve, Basecamp and Air19 here as most (note, not all) other members would also most likely disagree.

[Jim Jarzabek]

I towed over 25,000 miles last year.......

A 1500 or half ton has lighter brakes, coils, shocks, leaf springs, smaller tires, etc....

A 2500 is actually a one ton chassis with heavier brakes, coils, shocks, leaf springs, larger tires, etc....

The Chevy Suburban is the oldest continuously produced motor vehicle model IN THE WORLD!

Parts are plentiful, readily available, and reasonably priced. And they will be for a long time.

For towing, go no lighter than a 3/4 ton........

Take it from someone who knows from experience...

I tow a 94 25' Classic with a 2001 2500 Suburban with the 8.1l engine and 3.73 rear end and it is an excellent combination. In my opinion it's the best combinatin they make.Your never short on power and as for the gas milage, there's probably very little difference between it and the 6.0L. The quality of the ride when not towing is excellent, not truck like at all. i use it as my every day driver and love it.Buy what you want but try before you buy.

[grizzy]

We tow a 19' Bambi (around the same weight as yours) with our 02 Chevy Avalanche Z71, 4:10 gearing. Although there have been times when I could use a little more power going up steep grades, I would have to say I think it is one of the best overall combinations for our purposes. We tow about 12,000 miles per year, across mountains, through deserts, and over the plains. We get right at 12 mpg towing (checked over about 20,000 miles) and between 17 & 18 when not towing. I suppose you can always make a case for getting something bigger than what you need, but you do pay a price for that when not towing. Just my 2 cents worth.

[genearnold]

Never having pulled with a Suburban, I will defer to the people who know the vehicle. That being said, the question is about pulling a 25’ in the Colorado Rockies. I do have a lot of experience that can apply to this.

My opinion is, if it is only a very occasional pull and you don’t get embarrassed or intimidated when you are pokey going up a pass, I wouldn’t worry about it. I pulled a 31ft. ’69 International for fifteen years, three years with a 350 GMC ½ ton with a very weak gear ratio (can’t remember what it was but it was far less than a 3.76), and thirteen years with a Heavy ½ 6.2L Chevy diesel with a 4.10. I pulled Monarch several times, Rabbit Ears a couple, and many of our Idaho passes (not so high but some of them a very hard pull) as well as in Washington, Montana and Wyoming. Both trucks were less than optimum and either would have been totally unbearable if I’d been pulling more often than I did. In all those years I never got into trouble. I just hugged the slow lane, pulled over to let faster traffic pass, and enjoyed the journey. No matter what you end up with, install an extra, high capacity, transmission cooler!! I think if the majority of my use was solo I’d put up with the downside for the sake of the greater usage.

I now have what I’ve wanted for years, a twelve valve Cummins Dodge with a 5 speed standard shift. Not for everybody, but I sure am happy with it!

Gene

[JmesDean]

I have to graciously disagree with Jim... my 1500 GMC Yukon XL has towed my 25'er with no problems. After discussing trading up to a 2500 3/4 ton with several "old-schoolers" at the River and in the desert, the only reason I would do it is if I trade up in trailer size.

My gas mileage has been decent (roughly 12 MPG when towing), the power has been great on incline (there's a hardcore incline on the westbound 10 just outside of Indio) EVEN with the A/C on and no overheating and all this, with the wife, 2 kids, a dog and the back of the Yukon full of beer and food for the trip (OK, water too).

As for the Rockies, I can imagine most tow vehicles will be burdened as your average speed going around those curves will be <25 (right?) As I've mentioned before, I'm sure you'll get the same performance out of most full-size trucks (sans DuraMax diesel, et al). It's just a better way to remind you to slow down when navigating those windy roads...

[raybell27]

Having listened to the discussion about tow vehicles for some time I am reminded that i and a lot of others are into Airstream travel because you do not need a Huge tow vehicle to pull them. I have been towing Airstreams since 1972 when i purchased a 25 ft. Argosy and pulled with a 1972 Dodge Charger with a 318 cu inch engine. Then went to a 1983 Dodge Van with the same engine. I pulled all over the US and Canada with no problem. That does not mean that at times i would have liked to have more power but they served the purpose as an all around vehicle for both towing and every day use. I also had a 25 ft. Soverign which i pulled with the van and a 2000 Tahoe with 5.3 liter engine. It was fine just needed a longer wheel base. I presently have a 2002 27 Ft. Safari and a 2004 Chevy 1/2 ton truck with 5.3 Liter engine. I get 12.5 to 14 MPG when traveling 60 to 65MPG. It also serves as my only other vehicle. I have been very happy with these tow vehicles. I think that if you tow a lot out West in mts. and cannot stand to go up slopes at 45 mph or you only use the vehicle to tow you should consider a heavier tow vehicle. Thats my 2cs worth. Ray