Towing 30' 2018 Classic with 2019 Ram 1500 Limited

[VernDiesel]

Jeff very cool yes I still transport them. I will be at the plant on Monday but don't yet know where I will be going.

Wow he/she has that AS packed to 80 pounds over its GVWR. He also has the AS loading distributed to and WDH set to 15.10% tongue weight. One thing he could do would be to redistribute some of that weight to get his tongue weight down to 12% to take 240 pounds off of the truck. A still very safe stable setting. Aside from that he has done well at replacing most of his steer weight and transitioning weight off the drive axle back to the TT axles. I would bet with that loading and hitch that it tows stable.

One thing that strikes me as odd is that his truck was already at GVWR before attaching the trailer. Looks like both cab & bed are loaded. Seems they have both packed the truck and the trailer with a lot of weight. For that heavy of loading an HD might have been a more ideal tool for the job at least for easily meeting Mfg specs. Probably has full water & propane tanks a bed full of firewood etc. Pretty much a worse case scenario sans something like putting a golf cart or 4 wheeler in his bed. None the less if he could or would not unload any of said weight these are some things he could do.

Relocate his 60 pound spare from behind the truck drive axle to behind the trailer. This takes 60 pounds off his drive axle and additionally starts to bring some of that earlier referenced 240 pounds of unnecessary tongue weight down. Etrailer and perhaps AS both sell spare tire mounting hardware for the back of the camper. Another thing would be to use a net instead of the 60 pound tail gate again coming directly off the drive axle. Even sticking to a safe 12% tongue weight (240 pounds) and removing the 120 pounds from these two items almost completely removes the 400 difference between his current drive axle weight and the 4,100 axle rating. Just a little hitch adjustment and the other 40 pounds would be moved to the steer or AS axles.

All that said he may be quite satisfied with how stable it tows now as his steer weight is fine and his tongue weight is in range.


Jim "downhill mountain roads were a nightmare". Something is missing in that scenario. Been over and down 6% grades with a CVW of 15,800 with my ED. Never even have to touch the truck brakes to control speed. The trailer had proper working brakes, the ED had the optional TBC trailer brake controller, truck had a tune with software to operate the turbo/exhaust brake and it works in sync with the factory transmission brake using tow haul.

[kmayer]

Hello All,

I have a 1995 25’ excella classic and am thinking about a new Ram 1500 fully loaded. From what I’ve gathered, the payload will be between 1069- 1300, and can tow 11,250. My excella is 5500 dry with 700 tounge weight. Even this seems to be pushing payload just a bit:

Driver / passenger and four legged friend 400
Tongue weight 700
Hitch weight 50
Camp stuff 100
Total 1250

Does this seem ok?

Here are some numbers that may help others and show how much different options reduce payload:


Limited trim - 166lbs*
Bed utility group - 25
Level 1 - 86
Advanced safety group - 50
Sunroof - 70
Anti spin - 16
eLocker - 16
3.92 Axle ratio - 0
eTorque - 80
22" wheels - 0 (vs 20" standard wheels)
33 gallon fuel tank - 73
Offroad Group - 119
Ramboxes - 163

Kevin

[jdalrymple]

I will get flamed, and the usual tow vehicle debate will continue, but do yourself a favor and look at a 3/4 ton pickup from your favorite manufacturer.

No payload worries, no worries about the mountains, no worries about what you want to haul, no worries about braking.

NO WORRIES.



Regards,

JD

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by rmesfo

The dealers are really proud of their 3/4 and one ton HD's and it is reflected in the price. We went with a used F250 Powerstroke with 100K, one owner and well maintained for 20K. Works like a dream and you ALWAYS know you are not going to be skating on the edge. Worth a lot more than money.

Good luck on your search.

Actually, that is true! (most of the year....) But, right now many dealers still have new 18's, and I heard today some of the RAM's 2500 diesels with $20K discount...Jerry Reynolds, (the Car Guy) was talking about this is a great time to buy a new 2018 model...he especially talked about the diesel model on the 3/4T as being the best "investment" especially for resale...his logic was their value vs the gas 3/4T trucks, which apparently drop off. There are several articles on the net that support same logic...That's assuming anyone is concerned about getting great resale when the time comes.... Listen to the folks here who made the move up to a larger TV like a 3/4T or 1T TV....with the larger TT's...lots of experience to learn from.

[jeffmc306]

Originally Posted by jdalrymple

I will get flamed, and the usual tow vehicle debate will continue, but do yourself a favor and look at a 3/4 ton pickup from your favorite manufacturer.

No payload worries, no worries about the mountains, no worries about what you want to haul, no worries about braking.

NO WORRIES.



Regards,

JD

Jeff, no flame here... You’re stating a fact. The safe bet is to go 3/4 with higher rated axles and payload. Most of the new Ford F-150’s have better payloads due to the aluminum body. For those with 25’ or less Airstreams the half ton would do the job - packed and WDH set up right AND conservatively loaded.

That’s where the trouble starts... Folks want a larger trailer or pack more gear and they’re over the limits. Gypsydad figured it out a while ago, sounds like you did as well.

VernDiesel makes a good point about how you can make the most of a 1/2 ton when set up correctly. Same for Andy at Can Am. I guess it comes down to how much work you want to put into the setup and watch your loading.

All good here!

[slowmover]

What determines that the worst class of TV is necessary here?

One chooses a pickup ONLY when the items which CANNOT be safely transported in the TT or the TV passenger compartment must be kept outside. What is the dimension and the weight of that?

4WD isn’t necessary, and adds a high degree of instability. These are in no fashion off-road trailers. (I’ve paid or Dad paid for a tow 4-5 times over our combined miles).

Among trucks is better to worst.

1) Straight axle is worst. IFS is almost mandatory.

2). Rack & pinion Steering? (It’s equivalent?). Other is unacceptable.

3). Payload? Here’s where it gets funny. TW & Payload have no correlation. Higher is worse, not better.

Ready to hitch, what is the weight at each corner of the TV? No big discrepancies, what about the Steer & Drive Axle Weight’s? What is the overall percentage change from the empty weight as purchased? The Front to Rear Weight Bias change? . A car already is far closer to a 50/50 FR-RR bias when empty.

That last is where the lie comes in. Load sufficiency.

Being unable to transfer significant TW back to the trailer (due to a still light rear axle per load limits) means there was insufficient reason to have used a farm vehicle to tow an Airstream. The hitch rigging will be worse than on the appropriate car. (That’s before you yahoos screw that up, too: nose-down and bouncing on the TT front axle).

200-HP is more than any of them need. (Or why is it my 21,000-lb Peterbilt needs but twice that much to pull a 60,000-lb trailer?). It ain’t the TT weight (every AS is a pipsqueak for weight) it’s the TT shape. It’s aero efficiency and ESPECIALLY in cross-wind handling.

What is being carried in the pickup bed solo & towing is the specification needs clarification. (A few items while camping? Empty when solo? Sorry you don’t value you or your family’s safety very highly). There’s one clown around here claims he can properly spec a pickup. BUT ITS THE SOLO MILES THAT DETERMINE THE TV CHOICE. Period.

An 1,100-lb TW on a car will place a little over 400-lbs on each axle. And leverage over 250-lbs onto the TT axles (where MORE is BETTER). At the end, the TV Drive Axle weight will ideally be 10% greater than the Steer. Easily accomplished with a car.

This ain’t rocket science.

Nor is it the TV advertising all of you cite as authoritative. Their profit versus your life and well-being. Not a choice, to them.

Drive something decent, EVEN ONCE, and this patented foolishness is gone for good.

On another thread we can have fun with how badly most of you drive (include yourself). Again, solo or towing. Gigantic BASIC mistakes. Which are compounded by wrong TV choice, plus WRONG hitch design and WRONG rigging

The right rig (as TV, Hitch Rigging & TT are EACH of EQUAL IMPORTANCE) and then operated in a statistically safe manner makes for an easy day on the road. Not all the extra work you create AND the risk I then see you putting into the drive.

Is there a statistical risk of injury or death with stupid, drunken teenagers and loaded fully automatic weapons?

That’s you.

It’s confounding as hell, ain’t it?

.

[bickp]

The prior ram 1500 (DS) maxed out at 8790 max trailer weight and our new 2019 30' FC came in at 8800. Have no idea what the classic is but guessing higher.

In our situation if I didn't load the trailer to the max, I would have been within my limits but operating at the upper end. Loved the eco diesel, but decided that I don't want to operate at the upper end and have to watch TT load and TV load.

Went with a 2018 2500 Ram Mega with cummins. I'm no expert because at this point I've only had a maiden voyage from Michigan to Tampa and back.

With the 2500 when big rigs blew by me at night in the pouring rain on Tennessee highways under construction with barrels everywhere I was so thankful to have the 2500. In my case I am happy to have built the church for Easter.

Your salesman has access to all of the spec's on the new trucks. If he does not, get a new salesman. You've got a car guy, not a truck guy. I could be wrong assuming that capacities are similar because you are talking about the new DT ram, and my experience is with the DS 1500 ram and the DJ 2500. But you need solid info.

There is no question that all the specs are available. You've got to be careful with the trim package. The 8790 capacity I mentioned was not with the expensive package. With more equipment the capacity falls, and the eco diesel starts out with much lower capacity than non diesel. It is a bit complex but a good truck guy can get you all the information for the truck you want to order.

Big decision but I can't tell you how happy I am not to have gone 1500 and how comfortable I am with the 2500 Cummins. I plan to keep both for 29 years till I croak at 94.

[slowmover]

OP, download the CAT SCALE app and get a TARE weight. At that travel stop with a scale, top off the fuel, and with only the items kept permanently aboard until you sell it, get a reading. The paper copies are inside at the fuel desk. They’ll ask you for info we need in trucking, just tell them it’s your private vehicle. We get reimbursed.

Take a pic of the door sticker showing axle limits. Do the subtraction and find the amount of capacity remaining at each axle.

Look up The Three Pass Scale Method. I borrowed it from a post by Ron Gratz on RV.net back about 2010. Here, both “Robert Cross” and “SteveSueMac” both have posts and threads showing the use thereof.

Your TT will need full fresh water & propane. Ideally loaded for camping. Same with TV. All passengers aboard and fuel topped off. All three passes.

Pics of the rig while on the dead level surface of the scale are good. A distance and angle that show each equally well.

Before going to do the 3P, rough-in the hitch while at home with contributor and towing expert Andrew Thomsons article re-printed on his dealer website: How to Set Your Torsion Bars. This is a great rough-in and will get you close.

Tire pressure is the other item. Put TT tires to max sidewall pressure. TV tires will be according to Scale values (and inside truck builder range). TV tires need to be dead-on.

From here (assuming all is well after a tweak or two) experimenting with hitch settings a bit higher or lower to get that “tracks on rails” performance.

You’d be best with a Hensley or Pro Pride hitch. Dirt cheap for what they do. No other is comparable, others are literally obsolete.

Antilock TT disc brakes are the other. See those threads. (“Guskmg”)

Get the info.

.

[jeffmc306]

Originally Posted by kmayer

Hello All,

I have a 1995 25’ excella classic and am thinking about a new Ram 1500 fully loaded. From what I’ve gathered, the payload will be between 1069- 1300, and can tow 11,250. My excella is 5500 dry with 700 tounge weight. Even this seems to be pushing payload just a bit:

Driver / passenger and four legged friend 400
Tongue weight 700
Hitch weight 50
Camp stuff 100
Total 1250

Does this seem ok?



Here are some numbers that may help others and show how much different options reduce payload:


Limited trim - 166lbs*
Bed utility group - 25
Level 1 - 86
Advanced safety group - 50
Sunroof - 70
Anti spin - 16
eLocker - 16
3.92 Axle ratio - 0
eTorque - 80
22" wheels - 0 (vs 20" standard wheels)
33 gallon fuel tank - 73
Offroad Group - 119
Ramboxes - 163

Kevin

Hi Kevin,

Is your tongue weight measured or estimated? Your math looks good but the actual door sticker will likely be different. I’ve got a ‘19 Ram 1500 Laramie Sport Hemi (without eTorque), loaded with trailer options - sticker attached and my payload is 1220 (pretty low). Head on over the 5th Gen Ram Forums and look under their Towing subgroup. You’ll find door stickers for all different new 1500’s.

Also, I have the complete list of option weights in a PDF. PM me with your email if you want it.

The truck is a great ride and I’m sure will tow fine. I'm just concerned we’re going to be over the max axle ratings.

Good luck!

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by out of sight

One of the big arguments against a 3/4 or 1 ton truck is that they make lousy daily drivers. But I have found that my 2500 Ram quadcab shortbed with 149" wheelbase is much easier to get into a supermarket parking space than I expected. A lot has to do with turning the circle. The RAM has one of the best turning circles at 47'.

The other big argument is that it can't fit into a standard garage. But that can free up the garage for a workshop.

The third argument is that it's too high to get into. Solved with a $35 ladder from Home Depot.

The Ram 2500 I have is the same length as a half ton crew cab. Under 20’, it fits in a standard garage. I would never spend that much money on something and leave it outside.

[majorairhead]

Originally Posted by jdalrymple

I will get flamed, and the usual tow vehicle debate will continue, but do yourself a favor and look at a 3/4 ton pickup from your favorite manufacturer.

No payload worries, no worries about the mountains, no worries about what you want to haul, no worries about braking.

NO WORRIES.



Regards,

JD

Agreed. F250 4x4 towing 30 ft. International, no worries, no regrets.

[tjdonahoe]

Originally Posted by Tom Lawn

Just picked up our 2018 -30' Classic. Replaced our 25' safari so have to step up to a bigger towing vehicle with for 10,000 # and 886 #hitch weight.
Been doing the research and narrowed in on the new 2019 Ram 1500 Limited
4x4 with 5'7" box. 5.7L Hemi V8 with E-Torque/8 speed , 3.92 axle and 4 corner Air Suspension system capable of 11,250# towing and 1,750 payload.
We like the 1500 due to its size and e-Torque. We realize the 2500 would be the best but trying to keep the truck as small as we can for a number of reasons.
Any input or experience within new design pulling 10,000# would really help.
Ram factory and dealer said should be OK but they sell trucks.
Thanks

......I would go with a 3/4 ton......Coast to coast....with a 13 31’ Classic...

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by Tom Lawn

Just picked up our 2018 -30' Classic. Replaced our 25' safari so have to step up to a bigger towing vehicle with for 10,000 # and 886 #hitch weight.
Been doing the research and narrowed in on the new 2019 Ram 1500 Limited
4x4 with 5'7" box. 5.7L Hemi V8 with E-Torque/8 speed , 3.92 axle and 4 corner Air Suspension system capable of 11,250# towing and 1,750 payload.
We like the 1500 due to its size and e-Torque. We realize the 2500 would be the best but trying to keep the truck as small as we can for a number of reasons.
Any input or experience within new design pulling 10,000# would really help.
Ram factory and dealer said should be OK but they sell trucks.
Thanks

To begin with the actual tongue weight of a 30' Classic is north of 1,000 Lbs. Ours is at 1,040. Add two adults, dogs generator, tools camping stuff and camper top and we are at 1,800 lbs without any margin for safety. That is one reason I went to a F-250 and had to give up the 1/2 ton. If you marginalise yourself at this stage I guarantee that you will be looking for a heavier TV after the first season on the road. A stripped down 1/2 ton with the midrange wheelbase might work but I have my doubts.

[kmayer]

Hi Jeff,

Originally Posted by jeffmc306

Is your tongue weight measured or estimated?

It’s from the Airstream owners manual. I have posted on the fifth gen forum as well, and someone said their limited equipped as I want has 1146 payload, so I will likely be 150 or so over.

Thanks. Kevin.

[dcineb]

I can't tell you about all the specs but I can tell you that the feel of towing with a Ram 2500 diesel far exceeds anything smaller. We have had 2 30' Classics and had 3 trucks, the current one is a 2014 Ram 2500 Diesel 4x4. As the passenger most of the time I can tell you I am extremely comfortable with the power and stability. It can climb any hill like its nothing, pass or be passed and no sway at all. The weight of the truck matters. I don't like the feeling of hanging on for dear life. Just my 2 cents worth, undeducated but secure.

[turk123]

Verndiesel's reply saying "Towing the 30 Classic is for likely weight distribution reasons more difficult to get to tow really well than say a 30 International that does not have all the heavy options or even the longer 33 Classic that despite more weight and length tows better. Not to knock the 30 Classic its an excellent AS to camp in. "

This is spot on. The Classic 30 does not tow like the 27 international I owned. I had a lot of problems with the setup and even asked Sean from ProPride to help. Sean's response from the many Airstreams he has helped set up was "The Classic 30 is the worst towing trailer out of the whole fleet of models".

I own a ProPride hitch and an F-250 ford diesel. I spent a lot of time at the Cat scales getting this set up. We eventually got the right settings and it tows pretty well, but it still has a "drift" that I now have learned to ignore.

I've also owned 4 F-150's in the past. I would not like to tow a 30' Classic with one after owning the F-250. I actually regret not buying the 350!

[VernDiesel]

Over 5,000 pounds Ram recommends using a WDH. Theoretically a WDH can distribute 1/3 of the tongue to the steer axle 1/3 to the drive axle and a 1/3 back to the TT axles. So if you started with a TW of 1,140 via sherline at 2/3s you would only have roughly 700 pounds legal tongue weight on your weight slip steer & drive axle.

The more likely minimum tongue weight assuming your AS is 8k wet would be 10 percent or 800 pounds as seen by the scale slip. My experience with a light 1/2 ton truck and towing a flat box TT 65 even 70 mph with semis & wind is that 12.0 percent is safe stable and won’t wonder or sway. With an AS you might be able to get away with less but they also start out tongue heavy so to get less than 12.0 requires more hitch tension than I like to run. At any rate at 12 percent an 8k TT would show 960 pounds TW on your loaded truck axles over your unloaded truck axles leaving both room on your drive axle and GVWR pending what else you are loading into your truck.

So knowing this and working with this regularly it still strikes me how many people think tongue weight is largely fixed or that a WDH doesn’t affect it dramatically. Or people think stack up weight estimates towards a payload sticker and think it will give much of a relavent useable number when no auto manufacturer RV manufacturer or the SAE society of automotive engineers has ever endorsed such. In fact they provide max axle, tow, receiver, cvwr & gvwr. On top of that tripple scales they weight all 3 sets of axles at the same time such as CAT are all over every state are cheap even can be found by your phone gps by downloading their free app.

[Gondul]

I have a 2019 Limited, 4x4, 6'4" bed, payload is 1310.

[dechampion]

Originally Posted by jeffmc306

Dechampion, which way did you go on your Ram 2500 - gas or diesel? I assume it’s a 2018 due to the timing of your trip. That’s quite a lengthy first run :-)

Thanks for sharing your experiences!

I went with gas (6.4L Hemi) mostly because I do not know how to fix diesel engines. And yes it was a 2018. Very comfortable ride.

[Larry1492]

Originally Posted by VernDiesel

Hi Tom. Congrats on the new AS. I see 2 posts you are new to posting here at the forum so you may not know that this subjects gets beat up and debated pretty hard. IE long heavy AS and soft suspension half ton truck.

I transport AS with a Ram 1500 commercially. 540,000 miles taking them from Jackson Center to dealerships all over the country with my 8 speed Ecodiesel so I know the truck & AS. Towing the 30 Classic is for likely weight distribution reasons more difficult to get to tow really well than say a 30 International that does not have all the heavy options or even the longer 33 Classic that despite more weight and length tows better. Not to knock the 30 Classic its an excellent AS to camp in.

I'll tell you a camp ready 30 Classic with family is more stable and ideally towed with a HD but can also be done with a well set up 1/2 ton. By that I not only mean engine, gearing, factory trailer brake controller TBC, tow mirrors, and hitch camera. But more importantly a good WDH with built in sway control then set up one time to get it right taking advantage of a CAT scale to tell you IF you have replaced your unload steer weight and IF you have set the hitch and loaded the trailer for proper tongue weight range. This is the only way to know concretely that you will have the most safe stable and by the manufacturers numbers tow set up.

If you don't want to take an hour with your "wet" AS at a CAT scale to get it right you either hope the RV dealership guesses well enough using measurements to estimate what should be stable. (when semis pass and such or an emergency swerve around is needed) or you would be better off with a HD that is more forgiving. Last while the air suspension is nice and has benefits one downside is it can be a little more difficult to get the desired weight transfer from a WDH to get weight off the drive axle and put back onto the steer axle and also AS axles. Fan of the truck and it can do the job well but just a heads up that it may require a little more setup work to get it to be rock stable and a joy to tow with.

Just wanted to say thank you. I have an Airstream 23fb that I tow with a Ram 1500 Eco Diesel. I was concerned that I Maybe had a little to much tong weight for the truck. I love
the ride and mileage of the eco and did not want to give it up but some of the posts on towing I was reading were fueling my anxiety. If you can deliver a thirty with the ram than I can certainly make it form Ny to Florida with my 23 for vacation. You just saved me 50k I’m sure.

Is you ram eco diesel stock or have you added airbags or helper springs?

Thanks Again

Larry.