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Old 01-23-2009, 11:16 AM   #61
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Old 01-23-2009, 11:19 AM   #62
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Why don't we talk about religion instead? I'm just waiting for the first post on Zoroastrianism.

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Old 01-23-2009, 11:20 AM   #63
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1/2 Ton to 3/4 Back to 1/2 Ton

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I don’t know of anyone who started with a ľ and went to a ˝, so it really is a question of experience.
Bill
Bill, As I have stated in the past I switched to the 2008 Tundra, 5.7 after pulling for 3 years or so with the 3/4 Suburban with the 8.1. Sure I don't have the 8.1 power anymore but what I do have is a truck that is able to pull safely any trailer I own everywhere I want to go inlcuding out to the west coast. The power with the 6 speed allows me to get out into traffic without a problem, the frame questions and stuff on the websites is not a problem, the truck will take the weight, either GVWR or GCWR and the ride is good regardless of if I'm hooked or not. The other big part of the picture is the stopping distances and the Toyota out performs the 3/4 Suburban. (IMHO). I think the big plus here is that the Toyota stays out of the shop, the 3 Suburbans I have before it could not, I no longer sit on the side of the road waiting for the tow truck!

So I guess here is a post from a guy who did go from a 1/2 to 3/4 and back to the 1/2.

As I have stated before I like my Tundra and glad I have it.
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Old 01-23-2009, 12:00 PM   #64
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OK, here goes my 2 cents in the 1/2 ton vs. 3/4 ton debate.

We have a 2005 25FB, named Lucy, who tips the scales for travel at or near 7,300#. During the past two years, we have towed Lucy over 40,000 miles all over the United States.

We are probably some of the very few people who have towed the same Airstream with both 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton tow vehicles of the same make alternately during the same time period.

When we bought Lucy in June of 2006, we owned a 2004 Chevrolet Tahoe two-wheel drive with the 5.3 liter V-8. This is a 1/2 vehicle with coil spring rear suspension. We also owned a 2005 GMC Yukon XL 2500 four-wheel drive Quadrasteer with the 6.0 liter V-8. This is a 3/4 vehicle with leaf spring rear suspension.

We pulled Lucy with both of these tow vehicles, and these are my assessments after this side-by-side comparison.

- Both the Tahoe and the Yukon XL could pull Lucy at highway speeds on fairly level ground without hesitation. On grades above 3%, the Tahoe started to strain. The Yukon XL had no trouble with until it hit about 6% grade. The Tahoe did not do very well at all up the really steep grades.

- Both tow vehicles did not show any evidence of sway with the Hensley hitch system.

- The most noticeable difference between the two TVs was in the braking department. The Tahoe just didn't have the braking power of the Yukon XL to the point that it slightly scared me a couple of times. I found myself using the manual trailer brake control very often with the Tahoe. The Yukon XL's brakes were much more confidence inspiring.

- While not towing, I really didn't notice any appreciable difference in the ride. The longer wheel base of the Yukon XL probably helped in that area.

- Gas mileage of the Tahoe while not towing was 16 mpg; towing Lucy made it 10 mpg. The Yukon XL did 13 mpg while running solo; while pulling Lucy, it dropped to 11 mpg. I was surprised that the 3/4 ton actually did better than the 1/2 ton in the gas mileage department while towing.

The bottom line is that last March I replaced the Tahoe with a 2004 Chevrolet Suburban 2500 (3/4 ton) two-wheel drive Quadrasteer with the 6.0 liter V-8. We tow so much that we like having a back-up tow vehicle. The 1/2 ton Tahoe was just not deep enough into my comfort zone.

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Old 01-23-2009, 12:19 PM   #65
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OK, here goes my 2 cents in the 1/2 ton vs. 3/4 ton debate.

- Gas mileage of the Tahoe while not towing was 16 mpg; towing Lucy made it 10 mpg. The Yukon XL did 13 mpg while running solo; while pulling Lucy, it dropped to 11 mpg. I was surprised that the 3/4 ton actually did better than the 1/2 ton in the gas mileage department while towing.

Brian
Brian - we noticed the same thing. When we were towing with our F-150 (1/2 ton gas) we averaged around 10 mpg. On our first trip with our new F-250 (3/4 ton diesel) we averaged almost 13 mpg towing - and the F-250 is nowhere near broken in yet.

We also noticed that the breaking was much better with the F-250.
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Old 01-23-2009, 01:03 PM   #66
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How about comparisons of Chevy to Ford to Dodge to Toyota to Nissan. It's possible a 1/2 ton Brand A could be superior in some or many regards to a 3/4 ton Brand B. And comparing 1/2 ton to 3/4 ton with a 28' Safari is different than a 25' because the Safari weights are different. I realize Brian, Jim and Rod's experiences are valid for their situations, but making comparisons is difficult because they can't be generalized.

There are so many variables that making decisions based solely on 1/2 vs. 3/4 ton is simplistic. For example, a '96 Ford may have bigger brakes than my '07 Tundra, but does the Ford have 4 wheel discs? Even then, how sophisticated is a '96 braking system compared to an '07? Can a 3/4 ton be too much truck for a Bambi?

A better way to decide what vehicle meets specific needs is to decide what it takes to tow a specific trailer. Some of that can be reduced to numbers, some cannot. Then either figure out what truck fits the trailer, or what trailer fits the truck. Part of that analysis has to be what's important to you—if you have to have a diesel, that eliminates a lot of vehicles; if you have to have a Classic, likewise for trailers. If there's no good match, change something. Part of decisions are not just GVWR, etc., but what you like. That part can really confuse things.

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Old 01-23-2009, 01:43 PM   #67
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It's not nice to post threats (sic)
But they work so well, Don't they? Opps.
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Old 01-23-2009, 02:01 PM   #68
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A better way to decide what vehicle meets specific needs is to decide what it takes to tow a specific trailer. Some of that can be reduced to numbers, some cannot. Then either figure out what truck fits the trailer, or what trailer fits the truck. Part of that analysis has to be what's important to you....

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Old 01-23-2009, 02:15 PM   #69
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How about comparisons of Chevy to Ford to Dodge to Toyota to Nissan. It's possible a 1/2 ton Brand A could be superior in some or many regards to a 3/4 ton Brand B. And comparing 1/2 ton to 3/4 ton with a 28' Safari is different than a 25' because the Safari weights are different. I realize Brian, Jim and Rod's experiences are valid for their situations, but making comparisons is difficult because they can't be generalized.

There are so many variables that making decisions based solely on 1/2 vs. 3/4 ton is simplistic. For example, a '96 Ford may have bigger brakes than my '07 Tundra, but does the Ford have 4 wheel discs? Even then, how sophisticated is a '96 braking system compared to an '07? Can a 3/4 ton be too much truck for a Bambi?

A better way to decide what vehicle meets specific needs is to decide what it takes to tow a specific trailer. Some of that can be reduced to numbers, some cannot. Then either figure out what truck fits the trailer, or what trailer fits the truck. Part of that analysis has to be what's important to you—if you have to have a diesel, that eliminates a lot of vehicles; if you have to have a Classic, likewise for trailers. If there's no good match, change something. Part of decisions are not just GVWR, etc., but what you like. That part can really confuse things.

Gene
Gene - as usual - you've made some really good points. There have been some attempts on this thread to compare a lot of different things and it does tend to confuse the issue. Yes, you can cross compare vehicles, it's done all the time in the industry. It just requires applying a set of measurement standards consistently across the board. (Not frequently done here!!)

I've been only comparing the 1/2 ton Ford to the 3/4 ton Ford because that's all I've owned and towed with. Comparing those two trucks together based solely on 1/2 vs 3/4 may appear to be simplistic but in reality it's a valid comparison because they are from the same line and have many of the same features - but - very different driving and towing characteristics.

The 25' and the 28' Flying Cloud / Safaris both weigh in at a GWVR of 7300# - it's pretty safe to compare the two interchangeably. Any differences as to how they feel behind a TV would probably be negligible .

Another point you raised that I've wondered about is when you said "It's possible a 1/2 ton Brand A could be superior in some or many regards to a 3/4 ton Brand B." It makes me wonder how the 1/2 ton Brand A (Tundra) stacks up to the 3/4 ton Brand B (F-250). I'd love to know how the Tundra would perform (compared to the 250) hauling our 28' Safari through the Rockies.

I'm intrigued with the Tundra. I recently rode in AZflycaster's Tundra (not towing) and it was a really nice truck. I wonder if we got a Tundra instead of the F-150 for our first TV if we would have traded it up. Since 1981 at least one of our vehicles has been a Toyota or a Toyota product (Lexus). They have ALL been great cars! For the last 16 years we've had Fords as a second vehicle (also very good).

We ended up with the F-250 this time because of 3 things:
1 - price (incredible end-of-year closeouts),
2 - having had good luck with Fords in the past, and
3 - not being sure if going to a Tundra from the F-150 was a big enough step up.

All in all we're very pleased with the new F-250. It's towing capabilities are amazing!

As for towing a Bambi with a 3/4 ton - yup, it's like killing a fly with a shotgun!

Anyhow... I've rambled on enough.
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Old 01-23-2009, 04:07 PM   #70
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Thanks for the compliment on my truck. Since my trailer is vintage and only tips the scale at around 5,000 pounds, I do not know how it would work with a much larger trailer but it tows mine with little or no effort. It's a sweet ride. Plenty of go when I want it and plenty of stop when I need it.
I towed with a 1st generation Tundra (2003) before I bought the 07. It was a good truck, but was a little light on power on the big uphills and the back seat was a little small for the two big dogs. I traded it in after four trouble free years and got back over 60% of what I paid on the trade. The new Tundra is a much different truck and is a lot more fun to drive. The pull over Wolf's Head Pass would not have been as much fun in the old Tundra. I've had this truck for 1 1/2 years and it has only been in the shop for fluids and filters.
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Old 01-23-2009, 04:29 PM   #71
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The 25' and the 28' Flying Cloud / Safaris both weigh in at a GWVR of 7300# - it's pretty safe to compare the two interchangeably. Any differences as to how they feel behind a TV would probably be negligible .

Another point you raised that I've wondered about is when you said "It's possible a 1/2 ton Brand A could be superior in some or many regards to a 3/4 ton Brand B." It makes me wonder how the 1/2 ton Brand A (Tundra) stacks up to the 3/4 ton Brand B (F-250). I'd love to know how the Tundra would perform (compared to the 250) hauling our 28' Safari through the Rockies.

All in all we're very pleased with the new F-250. It's towing capabilities are amazing!
The difference between the 25' and the 28' depends on which 25'. Tongue wt. on the 25 FB is 720#, 25 is 860#, 25 SS 750#, 28, 830#. That was important to me because of the limits on payload for the Tundra. GVWR for the 25 FB, 25 SS and 28 are all 7,300# and the 25 is 7,000#. Of course we never fill our FB to the brim, or think we don't. I tend to agree there's not much difference, but tongue wt. on the 28' is about 15% more than the 25 FB, and maybe that does make a difference. Another variable is how much each person loads into their trailer.

Glad to hear your combo works for you.


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Old 01-23-2009, 04:43 PM   #72
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hi and wlcome.. i have 2007 tundra and tow 31ft excella it is the best tv. brakes are the best of any truck..tranny the best ..payload 1495 not 1/2 ton 3/4 ton..you can drive it all day long and never mget tired..if you have a crew max like i do up-grade the tires. this truck turns the mountains into prairie.
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Old 01-23-2009, 06:19 PM   #73
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...and we Toyota owners generally boast of reliability (with a few recent and notable exceptions)....Gene
Gene - as I mentioned in a previous post, IMHO the Toyota cars that I've had have been the best that I've ever driven or owned. What are the notable exceptions that you're speaking of???
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Old 01-23-2009, 08:15 PM   #74
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Jim & Rod, what I meant was not that recent Toyotas were bad, but two people who have posted here recently state they had bad experiences with Toyotas. Sorry for the vagueness in language.

Of course, the early V-6 engines in the '90's had problems and many people got new engines. That's the biggest problem I can remember. When Toyota has a recall, it's so rare it becomes big news. More and more manufacturers are adopting Toyota's system of QC, so the room at the top of reliability is becoming crowded. Generally all manufacturers are much better than they used to be and we can thank Toyota for leading the way. Now if Airstream could adopt the same QC methods, wouldn't that be great?

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Old 01-23-2009, 11:06 PM   #75
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Ahhh I knew I had it somewhere... bury'ed in the computers vast memory... sometime back someone did a study... on vehicle lengths (trailers) to wheel bases. I.e short wheelbase and the vehicle becomes unstable... Longer wheel bases and the stability returns... They did a mathmatical analysis of which length should be used for what lengths of trailers... and here it is... of course you also have to take into account the weight of the vehicle vs the towed vehicle... but they went with just the wheel base lengths paramiters because most that have longer wheelbases also have higher vehicle weights which then require also heaver breaks and running gear also... .

Check it out.... and see if you agree.

For the first 110" of wheelbase, this allows you 20' of trailer.
For each additional 4" of wheelbase, this gets you 1' more of trailer.

Here is a chart: Wheelbase Length Wheelbase Length 110" 20' 150" 30' 114" 21' 154" 31' 118" 22' 158" 32' 122" 23' 162" 33' 126" 24' 166" 34' 130" 25' 170" 35' 134" 26' 174" 36' 138" 27' 178" 37' 142" 28' 182" 38' 146" 29' 186" 39' (This guideline was first used by the RV Consumers FHSA and NTSB Group)


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Old 01-23-2009, 11:09 PM   #76
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Sorry but I couldn't get the chart to print out in collums... but as you can see the WB relates to the Trailer lenght by picking through it.
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Old 01-24-2009, 09:20 AM   #77
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GMAs,

Thanks for confirming with the wheelbase chart that Tundras can pull long trailers. The double cab or crew cab short bed is 145.7"=26'. The double cab long bed is 164.6=33.5'.

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Old 01-24-2009, 12:57 PM   #78
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Your Welcome... oh by the way.... did I mention that the WB chart was only done for US manufactured Vehicles ONLY.. back then. (guess who participated in the study.. yep good old AS at the research facality set up by the Fed DOT, FHWA At the time it was done most Toys and Dats and Splats.. were still built over in Japan...

Just to clairify it a little... but I would think even today it might hold out true... except for the fact that OURS is probably now being used as parts for some mexicans tractor down in Baja... or who knows... they may have recycled it into your new truck fraim. Just think.. you may be driving around on my old steel... Now thats fitting and conforting to know. (smile)
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Old 01-24-2009, 01:18 PM   #79
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So Libo, ain't 'ya glad 'ya started this thread?Hope you're enjoying your new Airstream

We all have good intentions, really we do.

Hey 'fella's this thread ended at post #25
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Old 01-24-2009, 02:04 PM   #80
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OK, it's official. Before I even got a chance to read all of your posts we had made a deal on a 28' Safari. So, I guess I will be your test case. I will be towing a 28' with a Toyota Tundra 5.7 V8. I guess my next step is to look in to this famous hitch system everyone is talking about, Hensley. I want to outfit my truck ASAP so that I can pick up my new Airstream. Thanks for all your replies. Lia & Bob
Congratulations! Welcome to the world of Airstreaming! You'll love it.

The 28' Safari is the best layout in the line - but that's my personal bias. We're thrilled with ours.

Let us know how the Tundra goes and make sure you post lots of pictures.
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