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Old 01-16-2009, 11:33 PM   #29
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Don't want to interrup this thread, but, hey there Safari 28, did I just see you on hwy 30, between Scappoose and Linnton?, about 2:45 or so, today (fri, 16th), heading towards Portland.
Cheers......
You sure did, and it is a small world indeed. We cover this country 2 times /year out of Holland Michigan,mostly the west coast due to work. Currently sitting in a park in Pendelton. May I submit to you, your part of the world is as beautiful as any on the planet. We just stayed at Ft.Stevens for 4 days and it was very difficult to leave. Going to leave the streamer in Colorado near our daughter, and be back very soon. Take care. ap
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Old 01-19-2009, 07:29 PM   #30
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Speaking of which, the Hensley patent expired last year so anyone can now legally make and sell Hensley hitches (although they can't call them Hensleys). The original design patent is now in the public domain.

This may explain the drop in price.
Actually, it doesn't explain the drop in price. The ProPride DOES have patented components licensed from Jim Hensley. His orange design is out of patent as you stated.
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Old 01-19-2009, 08:39 PM   #31
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Hey Lia and Bob. I have towed our friends 2004 28 foot safari with my 08 Sequoia, not rated as much as the Tundra. Over the mountains to Zion NP from Colorado. With a basic resse sway control system, about $600. I've towed our 1968 one much further, though it is 2000 lbs lighter.

You have the right tow vehicle. Personally I have never used the more expensive tow
systems. I have never seen very many, even on other trailers, and AS is suppose to tow better than them.



Check this thread out. It is about TV and how if anyone hates theirs.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...cle-46809.html
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Old 01-19-2009, 08:59 PM   #32
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Over the past three years I've towed my 31' Sovereign (weighed at 7750#) over 30,000 miles with my Nissan Titan (which I believe is slightly less capable than the Tundra). Interstates, two lanes, mountains, flatlands, no problems.

Get a good weight distributing hitch (I personally believe the Hensley, while probably wonderful, is overkill), keep your running gear well maintained, drive with diligence and I believe you'll be fine.

My Brother in law pulls his 27'FB with a Tundra in New Mexico and loves it.

mike
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Old 01-20-2009, 11:35 AM   #33
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Ahhhh one question.. if the brakes go out on the trailer... you think the titan is going to stop it? Its not just about getting things moving down the road but mass weight also. You could pull a as with a mouse on a bike but getting it to stop is another story. While you lucked out with your mouses' one needs to be very careful about the tow vehicle weight vs the trailers wt. Loading is the key.. you want the tractor to have more ability than the pusher. So now what happens... well let say the trailers brakes on that 31 7900 lbs fail... a wire breaks... or the plug gets wet... you go to stop because the light suddenly changes... its wet roadway... you hit the truck brakes... and they start doing their job.. till suddenly you find the rear of the truck is being pushed by the trailer... it isn't pretty... the trailer pushes sideways and the truck starts to skid because it doesn't have the weight to match the trailer... suddenly you find your jackknifed... and now the trailer is pushing you sideways... the truck catches on the crack in the road.. flips.. trailer breaks loose and runs over the truck because the safety chain is still attached... KILLING ALL INSIDE. Ya a cheap truck is what one wants no doubt. The saving will Kill you...

So its not just about the pulling ... their are other factors one needs to consider... then again you notice that they don't promote the ability to pull any more on TV adds. Every wonder why? Their used to be a Utube site where Ford showed the difference between their truck and Fords... it was a test facility.. and again you don't see any of the foreighn adds showing how tough their fraim is. Again wonder why.. well the add at Utube clearly shows why... as the strenght just isn't their... compaired to what the big boys have. We have a friend who constantly was bragging about his toy truck and its ability to exceed over the US made ones... ahhh he found out when it broke.. and the dealer said.. he exceeded its capabilities. He now drives a US made 3/4 t truck. No problems in over 60,000 miles. But, hey the ones that buy the toys still try to stress theirs is better... and will do the job...

You will always have some one who thinks that the toys are better pullers.. than the US made ones... and to them.. I say... don't get mad when you lose it because the thing comes apart... after all the smart ones don't

The proof is in the economy and bottom line at the end.

I personally won't pull a AS with less than a 3/4 t Truck or vehicle. I read the NTSB, Highway safety reports... and no thanks to the false economy of the toy trucks. I don't want any problems on the road.
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Old 01-20-2009, 02:13 PM   #34
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Apparently those of us with "toys" aren't smart enough to buy Fords, but the brakes on my Tundra are: front—13.9 diameter ventilated disc; rear—13.6 diameter ventilated disc. With traction and stability control the computer instantly adjusts braking, such as it is, to keep the truck straight.

My "mouse" curb weight is only 5,645 lbs. with the double cab. With people and lots of other stuff, actual weight is more than 6,000 lbs and may approach 7,000.

The frame tests on YouTube appear to have been commissioned and paid for by Ford, so they may not be objective.

Everybody is entitled to their own viewpoint and I think it better to avoid questioning people's intelligence and stating you are the only one who is correct.

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Old 01-21-2009, 03:12 AM   #35
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Ahh not me... by the way Toys is short for toyota... Check out what the ford F250 has for brakes... way bigger... moucho super sized along with the running gear that will pull 16,000 ALL DAY LONG if we ask it to...

Hmmm how do you get from 6000 to 7000 with people again??? oh ya the other stuff.. go figure fer shure.

Well the frame test that they show is real and true.. or else you know toy would have sued them for slander... but, I also have my doubts about the toys engine putting out its rated power for very long from our experiances' Seems that when we had one after 40,000 miles... 3 transmissions and some minor running gears replaced... new brake pads and rotors .. (even the dealer after we bought it... said it was not the right vehicle for pulling our AS) the thing burped the trans fluid going... down a hill... after struggling up the grade in 115 deg temps in mexico ((without air on.. I might add and with two dealer installed trans coolers) ) we got to the side of the road and lucky got the trailer un-hooked just in time to have the toy go up in flames... proper ending for a truck that the dealer said should.. that didn't.

Thanks for good insurance... we then got smart and listend to the others who pull in our group... and went out and got a good old made in USA truck that was not only rated to pull our AS but could stop it too. (rated for 16,000 lbs) lets see the toy do that.
No its not I that questions peoples intelligence... I to was dumb for getting the toy.. a maintenance nighmare .. not because it was a toy but rather because we were expecting too much out of the little mouse... hard as it tried... it just didn't make the cut. Now when we got our present F250 truck in part from the insurance money from the toasted toy... we found that it was rated to pull... and with lots of extra to spare... so if your only got 7,000 lbs worth of mouse... what you going to pull? Not a 7,000 lb trailer (which is what the 25 is ) loaded. YOu got 14,000 lbs of vehicle to stop using them tiney 13 inch diameter ventilated disks... my ford f250 has a 16,000 lb rating... so we have stopping power to spare.. but hey its not me ... its the truck that is doing all of this... so don't go saying I am questioning intelligence and are the only one who is correct ford builds millions of these here trucks.. and people buy them.. because they are GOOD... go figure... oh and we have all that traction crap too... with 4x4 to boot. bigger tires that when you clamp the binders down won't slide due to their massive coeficent of friction and grip weight.

No I too was misguided and dumb.. when we got the toy... but then I was enlightened and got smart... with a tow vehicle which has that extra reserve for them extras one might want to haul home... but, as you say my viewpoint... not really.. good old facts and figures don't lie.

As I said ... I won't pull any trailer with less than a 3/4t vehicle... and with over 85,000 miles on this one.. (normal maintenance) if and when it wears out... I would consider getting another because it just keeps going and going and going...

When I got mine... I didn't look at even the F150's... but from what others that do have the new ones that out do the toys in their class (of which toy said they were the highest payload and pull.. ahhh ford just changed the numbers without doing anything to the truck.. suppose its way under rated) they seem to be doing a great job also. With the factory trailer tow package from the manufacture who HAS tested it ... you get a great deal. Nothing to add.. just hook up and go.. best value for the bux so we have seen.

naw I am happy with the 3/4 t truck pulling our AS. Hey will toot as we pass you along side the road with your toy Gene... remember CB channel 9 is the one you need for the tow truck (smile)
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Old 01-21-2009, 07:53 AM   #36
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Another part is the axle ratio. There is big differences in towing capacity with a high numerical axle ratio than a lower one. Which can explain towing differences.

Having a "towing package" usually means HD turn signal flasher, bigger alternator & radiator if you didn't get A/C, wiring for a trailer and other option that make hooking up the trailer easier. Almost never does a "towing package" mean bigger engine, transmission or rear axle.

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Old 01-21-2009, 08:04 AM   #37
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I had some doubts about Toyota's towing capacity claims also, but I did some research and found they have some things going for them no other manufacturer does that I know of.

First they have a good 5.7 liter engine, but others offer good gasoline engines also. However, the two things that I took notice of is their towing package rear end gear ratio of 4.30:1, and a six speed automatic transmission.

Now that's how you get a mouse to pull an Airstream! However, stopping it, and handling the weight???? I think in those catogories, it's another 1/2 ton truck, but then that's just my opinion from looking at the specs and never having owned one.
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Old 01-21-2009, 09:26 AM   #38
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Ahh not me... by the way Toys is short for toyota... Check out what the ford F250 has for brakes... way bigger... moucho super sized along with the running gear that will pull 16,000 ALL DAY LONG if we ask it to...

Hmmm how do you get from 6000 to 7000 with people again??? oh ya the other stuff.. go figure fer shure.

Well the frame test that they show is real and true.. or else you know toy would have sued them for slander... (smile)

Tell What that frame test proves. That the toyota flexes. So what does it mean. My engineer freind said it means nothing. It's only rated for a 1/2 ton not a 3/4 so you can't compare the two. It's just silly.

Now the test with the truck roll around conners is interesting to see, but then a sway control takes care of that doesn't it.



And I wouldn't worry about it stopping an AS. Even A Titan, I towed mine without the trailer brakes over a pass in colorado before I had the trailer brakes hooked up. With being able to manually downshift the gears I hardly used the brakes and when I did There was no problem what so ever. Now my trailer only weighs 4300 dry, and I do have the brakes hook up now and use them. I'm Not dumb, they help a ton.

Either way you look at it if your trailer brakes fail and you need to stop fast, your brakes are going to lock up no matter what size they are, or antilock brakes will kick in. And it will be the battle of friction with your TV and the road not the size of your brakes.

Some of us don't like the bounce down the road in a 3/4 ton.

But which is going to stop the trailer first once the brakes lock up.

3/4 ton truck or a 3/4 ton Suburban. My money is on the Suburban it's heavier than the truck, and won't get pushed as much. Just like my 1/2 ton Sequoia is heavier than the Tundra.
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Old 01-21-2009, 09:29 AM   #39
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Arrived into Loveland yesterday. The run from Oregon to here was a challenge, lots of ice fog and cold temps and then very strong cross winds. A good part of the run was a guy we passed a few times with a 30 SOB with a slide, he was using a new Toyota Tundra. We finally met up at rest stop, i was doing conference calls big time the whole day and easier to stop vs driving.

He commented on my speed of over 65 up long grades and how the a/s was so steady and level behind our truck. However, this boy was towing a small home, weight of over 9k and the tundra was doing it. So, my weight of say 6500k and change, and the shape of of the a/s was not even close to his load. Plus, the thing he was towing looks like a sail catching wind. It was high off the ground and I was proud of how the streamer sat low and mean.

He did look overloaded, trailer was not level and the truck was sagging, but he was out of Alberta, and the Tundra took it. He was using a reese dual cam like mine and I gave him some advice to get things working better. So, each his own, but the TOY was hanging in there and doing much more than it was designed to. I was impressed, but would not trade him. He did however have 2-3 inches of travel when I jumped on his rear bumper, so I let him know he will not have much appliance or trailer damage from a too stiff of rear suspension.

We did however leave him him in the fog, I hope he enjoys his new rig, not set up properly at all and his first trip into retirement. I worried about him for some strange reason!! Call it fellow RV concern.
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Old 01-21-2009, 12:22 PM   #40
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Tell What that frame test proves. That the toyota flexes. So what does it mean. My engineer freind said it means nothing. It's only rated for a 1/2 ton not a 3/4 so you can't compare the two. It's just silly.
Very true, 1/2 ton is a 1/2 ton and payload becomes the issue with larger TT's of any stripe. That more than anything, limits a 1/2 ton.


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3/4 ton truck or a 3/4 ton Suburban. My money is on the Suburban it's heavier than the truck, and won't get pushed as much. Just like my 1/2 ton Sequoia is heavier than the Tundra.
Ummmm...not likely. We luv Burbs...have owned and towed with 2. But there is no way a Burb comes even close to the mass of a deezul power pick me up. (Diesel not currently available in Burbs). Having said that; a 3/4 ton Burb is quite capable of pulling anything AS ever made (except 5er!).

safari28; post some pics of Loveland Pass in winter with your AS...that would be cool!
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Old 01-21-2009, 01:03 PM   #41
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Tell What that frame test proves. That the toyota flexes. So what does it mean. My engineer freind said it means nothing. It's only rated for a 1/2 ton not a 3/4 so you can't compare the two. It's just silly.

Now the test with the truck roll around conners is interesting to see, but then a sway control takes care of that doesn't it.


Well I can only tell you MY experiance with the Toy... first and last one

As to the fraim flexing.. yes it does tell you something... when the shocks can't control the hopping up and down... its not as strong or as ridged. When the trailer starts flexing things... how do you control it? no electronic device is on the truck to stop the hopping up and down the truck starts doing... things then change (how far can you go before the bending becomes perminate) in the alignment section and poof your out of control... We also experianced the bed rail hitting and leaving a dent into the back of the cab from all this flexing.. not good... and this was on normal highways. Ya it gives a softer ride but at what cost to loss of control? the bigger the brake the less you have to squeeze it to get it to stop... thus less wear also... I think the PU has massive 16-1/2 inch disks on all 4. We also have the factory auto sway control that works off the anti skid section... can't say its good or bad.. never needed it so far...

Look its not good to overload any vehicle... the engineers didn't design for it.... but, as the gent said.. the sub is much heavier.. and a better tractor pulling as well as it is set up (engineered ) to stop the same load it can pull... I still contend that if your going to pull anything 25 ft and over you need to step up one notch and get a heavier PU thus the 3/4 over 1/2 t. ... when we got ours from the dealer.. the trailer tow came with the 3.73 limited rear ... bigger tires 10 ply and as others said lots of extra goodies like the brake controller and sway control built in.. its now considered one of the best out their...

Will the mouse pull a 25 ft'er.. yes as others have said.. we can confirm that also... from our expericance... but then again we also are telling you about the problems we had with ours... and how we tried to make it work... just didn't happen is what I am trying to say... but, with the 3/4 Ford its one heck of a good rig...and a pleasure to get down the road with... oh and the bouncing.. well... I dont' know what ford did but these new ones are much softer than the old ones... like riding in a car... unless you get the super duity high carrying weight load one... which you really don't need in the 3/4 t class...
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Old 01-21-2009, 01:15 PM   #42
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but, with the 3/4 Ford its one heck of a good rig...and a pleasure to get down the road with... oh and the bouncing.. well... I dont' know what ford did but these new ones are much softer than the old ones... like riding in a car...
The rear leaf springs on the new Super Duty's are 8 inches longer than prevously, there are less leaves in the spring pack, and the leaves are progressive( tappered).Thus the improved ride on the 2008 and newer Super Duty's. Adios, John
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