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Old 06-27-2004, 03:24 PM   #1
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tow vehicle question

I'm looking @ 1991 Suburban V2500, 5.7L, efi, as a possible tow vehicle for my 1977 31ft Land Yacht. My question is whether this vehicle has what it takes to pull my trailer. All comments welcome. Thanks, Wayne
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Old 06-27-2004, 03:46 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laurandwayne
I'm looking @ 1991 Suburban V2500, 5.7L, efi, as a possible tow vehicle for my 1977 31ft Land Yacht. My question is whether this vehicle has what it takes to pull my trailer. All comments welcome. Thanks, Wayne

Wayne:

Look on the door pillar of the 'burb - it should give you the GVRW and the max tow allowable. Weigh your trailer (normally loaded), and give yourself a good safety factor (don't load the Tow Vehicle to more than 75% to 80% of the GVWR, or max allowable tow weight, whichever limit (the most conservative) you get to first).

Remember, the main thing about towing is stopping and control - not brute horsepower for a straight line pull.

Slow and easy does it, but towing an RV (ANY RV) is definitely a case where more (tow vehicle) is better.
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Old 06-27-2004, 03:46 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laurandwayne
I'm looking @ 1991 Suburban V2500, 5.7L, efi, as a possible tow vehicle for my 1977 31ft Land Yacht. My question is whether this vehicle has what it takes to pull my trailer. All comments welcome. Thanks, Wayne
Your trailer depending on layout weights in about 5005 to 5070 pounds dry with a tongue weight of 620 to 725, look at the tag on front panel behind propane tanks to the lower right and it will give you maximum weight loaded.
I do not know your trucks towing capacity, but I have to say no problem at all, as you could tow this with a smaller truck than that.
Acually I think that tow vehicle is capable of towing any Airstream trailer ever made!
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Old 06-27-2004, 04:01 PM   #4
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I tow with a 99 Suburban Vortec 2500 with a 454 CI eng & 4:10 rear end. Its a good tower & does well in the mountions here in the west. The 350 eng will probably do fine in flat areas, but lacking if you try big mtns. Do you know what rear end it has? That can make a difference. Would the seller let you try towing with it to check it out? Your TT will weigh in at about 7200 LBS loaded for a trip. Have you checked what the tow rating is? Mine is about 10K rating, so that one is probably around 7500, I'm guessing & that might work. You see a a few 31' being towed with 1/2 ton pick ups. I wouldn't recommend that, but they get by.
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Old 06-27-2004, 04:02 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laurandwayne
I'm looking @ 1991 Suburban V2500, 5.7L, efi, as a possible tow vehicle for my 1977 31ft Land Yacht. My question is whether this vehicle has what it takes to pull my trailer. All comments welcome. Thanks, Wayne

Couldn't find the specs on a '91 burb, but the '93 and '94 3/4 ton were rated at 10,000lbs.

6,000 lbs of trailer, plus 1,500 to 2,000 lbs of water, food, clothes, and equipment works out to the 3/4 ton 'burb with a 10,000 lb rating being an ideal tow vehicle with an appropriate safety factor.

Sometimes the "advertised" rating is decreased for various reasons.

I purchased a new 1/2 ton Chevy PU in 2001 - a 'commuter cheapie' -- it had a ridiculously low tow rating - about 2,000 lbs. Always estimate on the conservative side if you can't find the exact numbers for the vehicle you are considering. The sales people will tell you anything you want to hear. -- ...bet they won't visit you in the hospital or testify for you in court though.
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Old 06-27-2004, 05:15 PM   #6
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'91burb questions
thanks guys for the input. I know the spec on that model suburban show a payload of 7500 lbs. the owner doesn't know the rear end gear ratio but said he will find out. I aske d if I could take it for a test pull he said ok. I looked under the chasis but could not determine if it had a transmission cooler, Is this a requirement?
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Old 06-27-2004, 10:58 PM   #7
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If you want that transmission to last then a trans. cooler is something you will need. If the rear end ratio is lower numerically than a 3.73 i.e. 3.42 then I would pass on this vehicle. I towed a '77 Excella 500 from AZ to TN with a '92 Z71 1500 shortbed Chevy truck with the 3.42 rear end and it was a killer on hills. The 2500 should have better brakes and better rear suspension but the throttle body EFI engine could use a boost. I think a 2500 Burb with the 6.0 is a better towing vehicle due to engine power and torque. If you never plan on hitting mountains and you travel light then the combination you are looking at now might make it but will labor when pushed.
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Old 06-28-2004, 02:48 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laurandwayne
I'm looking @ 1991 Suburban V2500, 5.7L, efi, as a possible tow vehicle for my 1977 31ft Land Yacht. My question is whether this vehicle has what it takes to pull my trailer. All comments welcome. Thanks, Wayne
I have a 3/4 ton van, "SHERA" is her name and she has no problem pulling my 1986 31ft Sovreign, regardless of the powerplant the gears are more important then the latter. I would certainly run a tranny cooler and a deeper pan, I have used my van for thousands of miles and she has done wonderfully. We take it easy on the hills and I pay attention to how she is loaded. That includes through the Catskills in NY and PA--I have real high gears that just require a lot of time to get up to speed
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Old 09-07-2004, 10:09 PM   #9
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I finally bought one. Not the tow vehicle that I mentioned above. Instead I found a '90 suburban 350ci w/ tbi and a 1ton rearend kit added by the previous owner. After driving it, I couldn't pass it up. The miles are high, 175k, but it has been well taken care of. I put my first 500mile trip on it over the labor day weekend. Went off without a hitch. no pun intended. She rides a little rough but I reallly didn't feel the trailer much. Except for going up some steeper grades she pulled great at around 60-65mph. Questions. Can I do anything to get more horsepower? Engine temp was around 200-210 is this okay? Can I get better gas mileage than 8.5 mpg?
Thanks wayne
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Old 09-07-2004, 10:16 PM   #10
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There are lots of things you can do to get more HP out of that smallblock. HP costs $$$ If you got the $$$ you can have almost any HP you want. I don't mean to sound like a smart a$$, but I just went through that whole thing on my Impala SS. First I modded the engine and got it up to about 50hp more, then found that a few mods I did lowered the torque a bit (like the free flowing exhaust) even though in the end it was up over stock. Then I found a chain reaction. More HP and better gears made me have to mod the driveshaft and the posi unit, then better cooling since I reprogrammed the computer for more HP and the timing curve and fuel to air mixture program made it run a bit hotter which then I had to install a 160 degree thermostat, extra trans cooler items, and another computer reprogram for the 160 stat and secondary fan turn on times...and on and on and on and on.....

A few things to consider. If you plan on keeping the truck for a long time, by all means spend the $$ doing some mods, but you have to be careful since adding some HP mods could hurt torque and torque is what gets you going and helps get you up hills.

210 is pretty standard. Our '85 Suburban with a 454 hit 210 on the nose all the time (towing or not). Our new 2004 Suburban with a 6.0L hits 210 just like our old '85 did....more things change, the more they stay the same!

As for getting better than 8.5 mpg....go down hill more often! Our '85 got between 8 and 10mpg and nothing changed that. The 6.0L and even the newer 8.1s are a bit better on fuel, but as I've said before, we folks that buy these trucks are not gonna get a Greenpeace sticker for them anytime soon.

BTW, congrats on your Suburban. Good choice...me, it was either the 3/4 Suburban or I was gonna travel to Canada and get that Can-Am Dodge Intrepid.
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Old 09-07-2004, 10:28 PM   #11
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The truck is way too cool to part with any time soon, so I know I will spend the $ on it sooner or later, probably later. Laura said if I don't start selling some vehicles soon we will need to sell the house and move into one of them. I am going for the sovereign. About that torque thing? I am clueless. I thought it was all about horses.
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Old 09-07-2004, 11:07 PM   #12
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Towing performance

Our 94 Suburban 1500 with 200hp 5.7L engine averaged 10.1 mpg pulling an Excella 25 for 6,000+ miles across western US and back this summer. Mileage for previous Nomad trailer was 8.2mpg, and Airstream is 500# heavier, so drag really is reduced. We only get 15mpg highway solo (14 if I forget and leave ski rack installed..), so yours is about average...

You may have 205 or 210 degree thermostat, designed for compatibility with engine computers and to keep smog system happy. It may be possible to lower to 190 degrees, though dealer might discourage... It'll mostly run where thermostat is happy. May actually have transmission cooler as integrated part of radiator, since many with factory tow pkg (included chevy installed hitch receiver..), but if you don't, it's a necessity...

Suburbans are sensitive to shocks and tire pressures as well, and handling gets better as tires get firmer and spring bars help with hitch load.

Good luck, and keep putting money in the "Oh #^*!" jar, so when something breaks, you can just reach in the jar, pay for the repairs and drive on with a happy attitude... Keep tracking how much you saved v. a new Suburban including taxes and fees and stiff insurance charges and so on... Even a new air conditioner compressor seems like a bargain if viewed through that logic...

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Old 09-07-2004, 11:07 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laurandwayne
I finally bought one. Not the tow vehicle that I mentioned above. Instead I found a '90 suburban 350ci w/ tbi and a 1ton rearend kit added by the previous owner.
Hi Wayne,

The 87-95 truck 350s are a good base engine, but the TBI system is very much the limiting factor. Early TBIs are quite unsophisticated, and don't take well to modifications as they stand. Certainly, any engine would benefit from a free flowing exhaust and a set of high quality headers like Hedman Elites or Thorleys. Computer mods such as a chip replacement don't benifit this vehicle much, as the computer doesn't control many functions and doesn't take well to mods like the 96 and later OBD II sytems. A good K&N air filter (probably part# E1500), good spiral wound plug wires (MSD# 31419) and an MSD box (#6200) can all help, but the big gains just won't come with the intake setup you have.

A couple of options;
#1 A Throttle Body spacer (a small, inexpensive modification, still limited by manifold.
#2 Edelbrock TBI Performer manifold #3704 (a bigger improvement, more noticable power, but still a TBI system. You would 'not' use the spacer in conjunction with this manifold).
#3 Edelbrock Multi-Point fuel injection kit (part# 3702 and fuel pump kit part# 3581 for single gas tank or 3580 for dual gas tank) This system replaces the TBI sytem with a new intake manifold with individual port fuel injectors, and comes complete with the manifold, injectors and lines fully assembled, and includes the computer, harness and everything you need for conversion, using your original throttle body (without injectors) as an air valve only. I think with the pump, it runs about $1000, but nothing else can make a TBI vehicle run like the late model fuel injected Vortec trucks.

There's lots more you can do such as computer controlled camshafts, cylinder heads and such, but they won't give you much bang for the buck without eliminating the TBI. As others mentioned, don't even think about towing without a transmission cooler and an engine oil cooler. B&M, Derale and others make excellent coolers. Make sure you get the 'stacked' or Long style cooler, rather than the cheaper 'S' shaped tube and fin design.I hope this helps.

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Old 09-10-2004, 10:03 PM   #14
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Thanks all for responding to my questions. I'm just returning from Indianapolis all week and haven't had time to reply. This gives me alot to think about. I want to first determine the status of transmission cooler and oil cooler. How will I know for sure what the truck has and doesn't have. I do know it is equipped with a huge, looks like aftermarket aluminum, radiator and two identical rectangular, radiator looking units mounted infront of the radiator. Are these the cooling units for the oil and tranny?
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Old 09-11-2004, 12:35 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laurandwayne
Thanks all for responding to my questions. I'm just returning from Indianapolis all week and haven't had time to reply. This gives me alot to think about. I want to first determine the status of transmission cooler and oil cooler. How will I know for sure what the truck has and doesn't have. I do know it is equipped with a huge, looks like aftermarket aluminum, radiator and two identical rectangular, radiator looking units mounted infront of the radiator. Are these the cooling units for the oil and tranny?
Wayne
Wayne, One is probably the air conditioning condenser (closest to the radiator) and the other is probably an engine oil cooler (closest to grill). They sometimes put a trans cooler there in front, but it's not common, usually allowing the trans fluid to go through the radiator while the engine oil goes through the external cooler.

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Old 09-11-2004, 03:43 PM   #16
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John-boy
After more investigating, I have determinedthat the transmissions fluid lines run forward to the radiator area. One line runs into the radiator and the other run into the bottom of a smaller rectangular unit. Another line comes out of this unit and runs into the radiator also. The other small rectangular unit has two lines running from it to the oil filter mount. This leads me to believe You were right in that one unit is the oil cooler. Can I assume the other small unit is some sort of transmission cooler or not?
Thanks wayne
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Old 09-11-2004, 09:37 PM   #17
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John-boy
After more investigating, I have determinedthat the transmissions fluid lines run forward to the radiator area. One line runs into the radiator and the other run into the bottom of a smaller rectangular unit. Another line comes out of this unit and runs into the radiator also. The other small rectangular unit has two lines running from it to the oil filter mount. This leads me to believe You were right in that one unit is the oil cooler. Can I assume the other small unit is some sort of transmission cooler or not?
Thanks wayne
Hi Wayne,

The trans cooler sounds like an aftermarket addition by a previous owner. Does it look like a series of stacked plates, or an 'S' shaped tube with fins, and what dimensions? If the oil cooler has hard metal lines running to the oil filter area, then it's a factory installed unit. If the lines are rubber or braided steel, then it to is an aftermarket item. If your truck does not have air conditioning, then there will not be a condensor in front of the radiator. If your truck does have air, then there's another, much large cooler type piece attached directly to the front of the radiator, that would be the A/C condensor.

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Old 09-12-2004, 01:47 PM   #18
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Hey John-boy
Thanks for walking me through this. The dimensions of both the oil cooler in question and the trans cooler are approx. the same. About 18in. long and 12in. tall. The air conditioning condensor is betweeen them and the front of the radiator. The lines to the oil cooler are rubber and appear to have aluminum fittings like those used on air conditioning systems. The units themselves look like thin plates stacked together. Do you think the trans cooler is adequete ? I have a concern about this because I was blowing the dirt off the air filter and found what looked to be transmission fluid in the air filter pan. the only explanation I can think of is that the transmission fluid overheated on our last trip and overflowed out the dip stick tube. The top of this tube is located directly next to the air filter pan. Is this overflow possible?
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Old 09-12-2004, 05:20 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by laurandwayne
Hey John-boy
Thanks for walking me through this. The dimensions of both the oil cooler in question and the trans cooler are approx. the same. About 18in. long and 12in. tall. The air conditioning condensor is betweeen them and the front of the radiator. The lines to the oil cooler are rubber and appear to have aluminum fittings like those used on air conditioning systems. The units themselves look like thin plates stacked together. Do you think the trans cooler is adequete ? I have a concern about this because I was blowing the dirt off the air filter and found what looked to be transmission fluid in the air filter pan. the only explanation I can think of is that the transmission fluid overheated on our last trip and overflowed out the dip stick tube. The top of this tube is located directly next to the air filter pan. Is this overflow possible?
Wayne
Hi Wayne,

Your trans cooler sounds like it is perfect for what you need, right type and right size. The oil in the air filter is common on older engines, and is engine oil not trans fluid. It will look similar because it has been hot and is usually a thin film rather than a deep dark pool. In an engine with a lot of crankcase pressure, usually due to piston rings worn or not seated correctly, an oil mist is present in the valve covers and upper lifter valley. This is usually brought into the air filter through the crankcase vent hose, the rubber and/or metal hose going from the valve cover to the air filter. There is a cotton filter inside the air filter that the hose connects to. Under normal circumstances, this will be dusty dirty due to airborne debris. Yours is probably oil soaked. You may also want to check the PVC valve out. It's in the opposite valve cover and goes to the base of the carb or throttle body. If you pull it out of the valve cover, you should be able to shake it and hear it rattle.

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Old 09-13-2004, 08:21 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laurandwayne
I finally bought one. Not the tow vehicle that I mentioned above. Instead I found a '90 suburban 350ci w/ tbi and a 1ton rearend kit added by the previous owner. After driving it, I couldn't pass it up. The miles are high, 175k, but it has been well taken care of. I put my first 500mile trip on it over the labor day weekend. Went off without a hitch. no pun intended. She rides a little rough but I reallly didn't feel the trailer much. Except for going up some steeper grades she pulled great at around 60-65mph. Questions. Can I do anything to get more horsepower? Engine temp was around 200-210 is this okay? Can I get better gas mileage than 8.5 mpg?
Thanks wayne
Millage seems low. My 454 powered 88 with 3.73 rear end and TH400 (no OD) gets 8.5 as a grocery hopper. Out on the road it will do 10.5 with 5600lb in tow. By itself it does 11.5. Thos Miles are verified via GPS on the hwy and the odometer appears to be acurate withing .5 for every 100 miles traveled. Your truck with the Over drive (unless it was swapped) should get near 15 without a trailer.

Did the owner correct for Spedometer error when swapping the axle? the typical 1500 got a 3.42 gear factory. The default gear in a 1 ton 14 bolt axle is 4.10 but 4.56 is pretty common as well. A 1 ton would not be a direct bolt in. It would require new spring purches. A 3/4 ton is a direct bolt in and the default gear is a 3.73. The difference between the two 14bolt FF rear ends is the Size of the brakes and the spring mounts on the SRW variation.

There are two "14 bolt" corprate axles. There is the 14 Full floater available as a 3/4. SRW 1 ton and a Drw 1 Ton. There is also the 14 semi floater that came in both 6 and 8 lug. It is concidered a 3/4 ton axle and still a big improvement over the 10bolt. Have you positivly Identified what you have and the Gear ratio?

In the glove box is the RPO build sticker that will list everying about that truck. G and H codes are axle and suspension related.
http://www.chuckschevytruckpages.com...s_1973-87.html
That will let you figure out what it came with as far as gear ratio. Then figure out what you currently have and you can get an idea if the Speedometer is off.
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