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Old 02-08-2006, 11:40 PM   #29
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In the case of an 870 hitch weight and 800# bars, with a truck I think you'd be in good shape. I read here about being overhitched and if you use the Reese Dual Cam, you need to have some weight on the bars for it to work. Having a 3/4 Suburban, I can tell you that the next bar up, the 1200s did not one thing, had no flex and as a result, did a marginal job with sway control.

I downgraded to the 800#bars and may go to the next lowest one. I think they are 600 or 700#. I have a 750lb rated hitch weight. I loaded the Safari and placed it on a hitch scale that indicated that when fully loaded, I was at 650lbs....and I loaded a lot of gear north of the axles on the Safari to see how heavy I could make the hitch weight too. If you all come to the midwest rally, I'll try to bring my scale so you can see what your hitch weight is when fully loaded.

For a 25' or larger, you should have something in the area of a Burb's wheelbase IMHO. One other thing to consider when going to a Yukon, or Suburban is that at 25' you start to get into the 3/4 ton sandbox. Upgraded trans, better brakes, etc. I think the GMCs get the 6.0L in the 1/2 ton too, which is a plus, but in all honestly, the price difference between the 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton isn't that big. Ride is a bit more firm than the 1/2 ton, but I love the 4L80e trans. It's just a plain workhorse. Also you get a semi-floating rear axle that is a bit bigger than what is offered in the 1/2 ton....these are all good things to have when towing.

I have 4.10 gears in our Sub and it got 13.6 mpg towing about 55mph and 11.5 towing at 65. I'd suggest getting 4.10s too for several reasons we can talk about offline if you'd like.
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Old 02-09-2006, 12:40 AM   #30
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hello all

65gt......
the reason there are so many t.v. threads it that there are many possible combos...
and many folks looking for a new t/v or wondering what is needed for a given trailer.........
ASK THE QUESTION.....
probably without searching first....
but even with a search they may not find their exact trailer or t.v in an old thread.

look at the first post in this thread....
it's a specific trailer and a list of possible t.v...mostly euro/import...not big 3....for a bambi/ccd. wants better mileage in a daily driver.....so pretty specific request....without a limit on price/year or mention of how many miles.....

of course once we start responding........the thread takes on its own life.........

just think about how many ways folks have asked this question....about trailer/tv combos.....

given the number of possible trailers (lenght and weight) the variety of t.v. and engines and gearing and hitches and towing mileage....well there could be 1000x more threads than wbcci.....ya think?....i mean it's only 1 club with only 2 name options....right?

anyway, t.v. lenght formulas...........

i wouldn't call them formulas...more like 'rule of thumb guides' and here are 2 that i'm aware of.......

1:.....t.v.w.b > or = to 1/2 of the distance from hitch ball to rear trailer axle.....

2:......t.v.w.b at least 110" for first 20ft of trailer....add 4" for each foot there after......

these are both helpful and conservative (favor longer t.v.) but neither account for trailer weight, t.v. weight, singel/dualie, hitch type, tire sidewall stiffness, brakes, controller, frontal mass, shape....and other variables....like a shorter trailer.

it really is hard to suggest just one way to pick a t.v.

lots of ways to get it right........
and even more ways to get it wrong......

and you would be surprised just how much can be towed with a bicycle....besides an airstream.

cheers
2air'
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Old 02-09-2006, 01:14 AM   #31
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hello all

wheel interested.......

picking w/d bars is pretty easy.....
600lb tongue........600lb bars
800lb tongue........800lb bars
1000lb tongue........1000lb bars

and so on......

in between (say 900) go for the 800lb on a big/stiff t.v. and 1000 on a softer sprung t.v.

remember hitch weight should be measure AFTER the trailer is fully loaded (lp tanks full too)...and can vary from 10-15% of total loaded trailer weight....

so if currently at 850lbs on the tongue for an 8000lb trailer...you could move some stuff inside the trailer <<<<forward....and get the tongue closer to 1000lb....then use 1000lb bars....

or say you already have the 800lb bars and the tongue load weights 1000lb for that 8000lb trailer.....well move stuff inside>>> rearward/over the axles and lower the tongue weight down some to 850lbs....get it?

after the w/d bars are adjusted....the ideal weight distribution is 1/3rd front axle, 1/3 rear axle and 1/3 trailer axles...for smaller trailers....where the trailer weight is close to or somewhat heavier than the t.v. weight.....

for heavier trailers (like mine) the goal is to get the fr/rr axles of the t.v. loaded to about the same lbs....after the w/d bars are adjusted.....OR back to the original t.v. stance.....before hooking up the trailer....

you are correct longer wheel base t.v. will ride smoother/more stable.....but the main reason for a longer wheel base when towing is so the t.v. has more control over the trailer, or more resistance to being pushed sideways by the trailer....

the numbers you ask about for "weights" are pretty simple...it's the abreviations that are tricky....look at the trailer life towing guide, or the ford towing guide, or the gmc towing guide....for the compete abreviations/explainations...

basically

t.v. has a carrying capacity and a towing capacity, and a total combined capacity/rating.....

.....the carrying capacity is the stuff you put in/on the t.v....
people, dogs, fuel, gear, cab tops/bike racks, water jugs....and so on.....the hitch and pin get added to the t.v....not the trailer numbers.....

the towing capacity is how much the t.v. can pull......and usually (not always) goes down a little as the t.v. is loaded......with stuff

the total combined rating is the max load for t.v, stuff, trailer, people....basically everything rolling.....

these ratings are explained pretty well in the ford/gmc towing guides...which are printed and at the dealers....and also online....with pictures even!!

cheers
2air'
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Old 02-09-2006, 01:24 AM   #32
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wheel interested.......

one other thing that dealers regularly confuse and we can confuse.....

hitch/ball weight.....

once you know the hitchweight/ball weight..........after the trailer is loaded....that number doesn't change with w/d bars.....no no no....

say the hitch is 1000lbs......once hooked to the t.v. that 1000lbs is pushing DOWN on the rear t.v. axle....at a force that is greater than 1000lbs.... and it is also lifting UP on the front t.v. axle.....get it? rear sag/front high?

so the w/d bars are used to REDISTRIBUTE the 1000lb load on the ft/rr axles of the t.v......the w/d bars SPREAD the hitch weight out more evenly....

but w/d bars DO NOT decrease the hitch weight...it still weighs 1000lbs (the truth is, it actually now weights more than 1000lbs....but we'll skip that....it's complicated)

so w/d bars don't lower hitch weight.....they speard it out better....get it?

the only way to change hitch/ball weight is to move stuff around inside the trailer....remember....?

cheers
2air'
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Old 02-09-2006, 01:40 AM   #33
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wheel interested

also what twink writes is correct....

for some anti sway setups the bars must flex to work correctly.....if the bars are too stiff, they will flex less & not stay in the slots/grooves, and the anti sway will be less effective....so in that situation/setup...go down one size on load bars....as suggested for stiffer t.v.

that is not an issue with the hensley arrow....

and your shorter (but heavy) yukon.....should you decide not to go for something longer....and with a higher load capacity....

if properly powered/geared/braked/cooled....would work better for towing with a hensley.....which improves control related to the issue of shorter wheelbases for t.v.

cheers
2air'
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Old 02-09-2006, 06:32 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by 2airishuman
and you would be surprised just how much can be towed with a bicycle....besides an airstream.

cheers
2air'
Bicycles and other objects still need to be aware of towing basics, such as weights and load distribution.
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Old 02-09-2006, 01:38 PM   #35
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asflycaster.......

isn't that the position for changing a tire.....er i mean a shoe?

clearly that as$ needs a hensley!

note in my bike photo the load is properly distributed....3 on the front, 2 middle, 2 rear....

here's another for grins....

early prototype for the one ox powered class c using the newly redesigned geeee'em chassis....

cheers

2air'
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Old 02-09-2006, 11:04 PM   #36
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Arrow Some threads for 65GT & Eric's Wed nite ??s

I'll do a data dump and Road King Moe shows up in a few of these -- though not the best ones he's had on safety margins. Quite honestly, ipso facto's post in the 2nd should be read by all!

http://www.airforums.com/forum...ukon-5257.html

http://www.airforums.com/forum...html#post32284

http://www.airforums.com/forum...c-so-8871.html

You'd think we'd have it settled by now... Whew!! I'm always concerned about people who want to tow 28' and above with little more than a 1/2-tonner.
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Old 02-19-2006, 10:15 AM   #37
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Quite honestly, ipso facto's post in the 2nd should be read by all!

http://www.airforums.com/forum...html#post32284

You'd think we'd have it settled by now... Whew!! I'm always concerned about people who want to tow 28' and above with little more than a 1/2-tonner.
Ipso is right on!

Among my friends 3/4 ton is the minimum requirement, especially for those who tow bumper pulls. I love my Dodge 3500 dually. BUT I'm a paranoid pessimist when it comes to hauling, especially as I am more often than not hauling livestock. BUT It's the perfect partner for all of my trailers - I never have to worry about it - no matter what's on board or where I'm headed.

JM2óWorth - and then there's always the matter of what you're going to have to give up to get that kind of HP, torque, and GVWR. I gave up smoking - saved me over $130 month.
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