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Old 09-21-2004, 12:03 PM   #15
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I have a 2001 2500 4x4 Suburban with the 8.1 and I'll bet your Ford Diesel gets better mileage towing.I don't think that your going to do better than the Ford diesel.

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Old 09-21-2004, 02:26 PM   #16
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While I'm not a Dodge man, I do know they have a superb diesel engine and I've heard some pretty impressive fuel economy claims. I've got a V10 Ford that gets 11.5 towing my Overlander at 65-70 in OD. Funny thing is when we went from Fort Worth to Shreveport week before last to pick up our "new" Caravel we got 14.6 empty (75-85mph) and right back at 11 -11.5 (60-65mph) towing the much lighter Caravel - and it wasn't even loaded for camping.
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Old 09-21-2004, 03:32 PM   #17
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I'd have to agree. If you think you'd get more than say 11mpg towing with a Suburban, you better think twice. No tow vehicle gets great MPG towing, but I'd have to say you'd be better off with your diesel.

I have almost the exact setup you are talking about and I will say this. The 6.0L in the Suburban K2500 is a great combo. The 8.1L, even better. However folks in pickups that claim 13-15mpg towing with the 6.0L are getting it, but don't plan on that with the heavier Suburban.

I can get my dads 6.0L w/3.73s to get the rear end to sing with posi....can't do it with 4.10s and posi on the Suburban.

The Suburban is a tank. Great truck, but a tank. Add 6300lbs of RV and you get near 7 tons of GCWR. Anything more than 10mpg is a gift IMHO (unless you have a diesel, there I'd expect 15mpg).

Although I am pro anything domestic, I have been to many campgrounds boondocking and you can hear a Dodge Cummings Diesel thousands of feet away. Great engine...way too loud. Your Ford is a better bet and if you want better, Duramax is out there for the right price.
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Old 09-21-2004, 03:48 PM   #18
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Smile

I also concur with the above posts!!

With my high mileage (140k) '99 K2500 Burb I get 9-10mpg pulling a 25' Excella at 60mph and 'bout 11-12 solo at 65mph.

An upgrade to a year newer K2500 would cost + $10,000 (and be a nicer vehicle with better brakes) and gain say 1-2 mpg from what I hear.

Any other reason to step up? (when I can afford it)

Steve
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Old 09-21-2004, 03:54 PM   #19
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Not really

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie
Although I am pro anything domestic, I have been to many campgrounds boondocking and you can hear a Dodge Cummings Diesel thousands of feet away. Great engine...way too loud. Your Ford is a better bet and if you want better, Duramax is out there for the right price.
Not the current Cummings. Our treasurer (the one who just lost a trailer wheel) tows with a brand new Dodge diesel and I have ridden with him. The current Cummings is as quiet as my Duramax at cruise and quieter at low speeds.

Of course, he doesn't have the Allison behind it and that is a big difference in my book. My last Dodge transmission ended up full of metal chips.
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Old 09-21-2004, 04:23 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by Sav'h Steve
I also concur with the above posts!!

With my high mileage (140k) '99 K2500 Burb I get 9-10mpg pulling a 25' Excella at 60mph and 'bout 11-12 solo at 65mph.

An upgrade to a year newer K2500 would cost + $10,000 (and be a nicer vehicle with better brakes) and gain say 1-2 mpg from what I hear.

Any other reason to step up? (when I can afford it)

Steve
Well, it has the 4L80e which is a good trans as well (not sure what they used in '99). I would say the if the $$ are tight, a used (late)2003 or any month 2004 is around for a good chunk off what list is, plus, if you pickup a new '04 (if you can find one), GM had/has a good blow out right now. We got about $10k off list on a new K2500 LT with most of the bells and whistles except for quadrasteer and autoride.

I would shy away from a 2000, 2001, 2002 or early to mid 2003 since piston slap was out there in a big way.
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Old 09-21-2004, 04:24 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pahaska
Not the current Cummings. Our treasurer (the one who just lost a trailer wheel) tows with a brand new Dodge diesel and I have ridden with him. The current Cummings is as quiet as my Duramax at cruise and quieter at low speeds.

Of course, he doesn't have the Allison behind it and that is a big difference in my book. My last Dodge transmission ended up full of metal chips.
Good to know. I have yet to see the new version yet.
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Old 09-21-2004, 04:43 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie
Well, it has the 4L80e which is a good trans as well (not sure what they used in '99). I would say the if the $$ are tight, a used (late)2003 or any month 2004 is around for a good chunk off what list is, plus, if you pickup a new '04 (if you can find one), GM had/has a good blow out right now. We got about $10k off list on a new K2500 LT with most of the bells and whistles except for quadrasteer and autoride.

I would shy away from a 2000, 2001, 2002 or early to mid 2003 since piston slap was out there in a big way.
Thanks for the news. I have heard of the piston slap and didn't know if it was really important. Is it?

A quick Kelly Blue Book on a '04 K2500 6.0L c 20k miles shows trade-in at $25K and probable sales price around $28-30K. Mine would sell for $10K or there abouts. It does have the 4L80E

thanks for your comments,
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Old 09-21-2004, 04:53 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by Sav'h Steve
Thanks for the news. I have heard of the piston slap and didn't know if it was really important. Is it?

A quick Kelly Blue Book on a '04 K2500 6.0L c 20k miles shows trade-in at $25K and probable sales price around $28-30K. Mine would sell for $10K or there abouts. It does have the 4L80E

thanks for your comments,
Steve
I would say that it is. GM has said several times that it is a non issue, however some enterprising person decided to tear down his engine and photograph the piston walls and it wasn't pretty. GM has been extending the powertrain warranty to 100k in some cases. I'm gonna share a URL with you, but before I do, I just wanted to say that you have to take a lot of what is said and do your own balanced judgement on what you read. There are some emotional, bitter, angry folks on this subject. Some right on, some just on a gripe bandwagon. You be the judge.
The issue seems to be mostly early 2000ish vehicles (00,01,02 and part of '03) and mostly with the 6.0L engine, though there are a fair number of 8.1L out there doing it too. At any rate, here is the URL to the pistonslap website:

http://www.pistonslap.com/

If you have a 4L80e, the only real difference then would be updated gear and a bit larger engine (if you have the 5.7L). So far I am very pleased with the overall fit and finish of the '04 Suburban. Around town, now that I have nearly chewed the 1st tank up, I am find I am getting 11.1 around town with about 500 miles on the clock. I am going to guess that will prob be what I will get when I start towing with it since there will be less stop an go, but added weight.
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Old 09-21-2004, 05:15 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie
I would say that it is. GM has said several times that it is a non issue, however some enterprising person decided to tear down his engine and photograph the piston walls and it wasn't pretty. GM has been extending the powertrain warranty to 100k in some cases. The issue seems to be mostly early 2000ish vehicles (00,01,02 and part of '03) and mostly with the 6.0L engine, though there are a fair number of 8.1L out there doing it too. At any rate, here is the URL to the pistonslap website:

http://www.pistonslap.com/

If you have a 4L80e, the only real difference then would be updated gear and a bit larger engine (if you have the 5.7L).
Eric,
Thanks for the post. I need to go there just to understand just what piston slap IS!

I do have the 7.4L engine with 140,000 miles and was very hesitant to buy it
but there were NONE in the local area for sale at any mileage! More in the ATL area but then only a few at at time. Mine feels sluggish even with new plugs, wires, etc., but it DOES weigh 8,600lbs. That a lot to pull around.

I thought of the 8.1 L and think that I don't really need it. The 7.4 gets 8-10 around town for 'groceries'. And about the same pulling on the highway. Best I've ever got was 13 on flat interstate.

I'm hearing that it might be best to hold off till I can swing a model w/o slap issues. Thanks for the heads up!
Steve
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Old 09-21-2004, 05:38 PM   #25
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Pulling 01 19' Bambi with an 02 Chevy Avalanche Z71 1500 (5.3L engine) we got about 13mpg on a short 250 mile trip. We're about to embark on a 4000 mile trip and I'll track mileage closely and report again.
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Old 09-21-2004, 06:10 PM   #26
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You know, I hear about piston slap in the 2001 Suburban but so far I can say with the 8.1 I don't seem have it. I don't think it going to cause any real wear problems and from what I've read it pretty much dsappears if you let it idle for a minute or two. Anyone want to comment? Your right it is a tank but a beautiful tank and you never feel that your underpowered. My first choise would be either the Duramax of Ford 6.0 Powerstroke, but I bought my Suburban with 36,000 miles on it at less than half the invoice and in near new condition with $14000,00 worth of options on it.

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Old 09-21-2004, 06:12 PM   #27
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Talking Suburban 4x4 2500 8.1

A pretty thing
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Old 09-21-2004, 06:51 PM   #28
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Jack,

I'd agree, it is a beautiful site. What I find cute is that all of the photos you could have chosen, how ironic that you'd show the one in three gas stations that 8.1L can't pass up.

Not to poke fun at the 8.1L alone, the 6.0L stops at every 4th station!

I did a fair amount of research on the piston slap issue and found that some had it, while other did not. For the most part, it effected the 6.0L far more than the 8.1L, though it too had a fair number as well. In the long run, based on what I have read and my limited understanding of the mechanics, I would say that there could be a problem after 100k miles, depending largely on the severity of the slap.

At any rate, as I've said before, we all don't by these trucks we use to tow to assume we are going to get a Greenpeace honorary membership...though I found it interesting that after we bought the Suburban, we got an honorary lifetime membership to OPEC and I sure as hell am not about to trade the truck for an Intrepid!!
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