Tow vehicle for FC 25FB

[JFScheck]

You guys DO ROCK and I appreciate all the great feedback!

So - unlike the rest of you all - I must be cognizant of my weight at all times...

Being a small aircraft private pilot I'm already used to this...

I did have the tongue weighed - and it came out at 2 pounds lighter than published - so a few of the options this trailer has installed in the back might be the reason for the delta up at the tounge...

So no throwing in stuff willy nilly, maxing out the hot water and regular water tanks, 80 lbs of propane, generator, etc. then loading up with hundereds of pounds of canned goods.

But - looking at my figures - if I were so inclined to put in 54 gallons of water, full 80 lbs of propane, Hot Water heater full of water, and 125 lb generator with 5 gallons fuel - I'm sitting at 6,520 lbs before I drive off which is still below my 85% max tow weight. Subtract some water and I gain up to 451 lbs! For what I do that works for me!

Now - in a year or two when I can have room for a full size F250 Truck (still diesel) next to my T-Rex and little red german coupe - I will be able to max this bad boy up with NO FEAR and maybe do some "boondocking" out in the wild - but for now I'm good!!!

You folks are a real resource and hope to meet a few of you soon....
Oh - and did I say You All Rock!!!

[JFScheck]

Always wanted to use that "Rock Band" icon....

Oh and Robert - that is good news since I can't go over 7,700 lbs - I won't ever exceed 7,600 which keeps me behind that 8k max limit...

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by JFScheck

Always wanted to use that "Rock Band" icon....

Oh and Robert - that is good news since I can't go over 7,700 lbs - I won't ever exceed 7,600 which keeps me behind that 8k max limit...

It may very well be different in the real world.......

Sweet Streams....

[geosimsimma]

Thanks JSFCheck,

That is very good news. So you measured below 700 lbs with a loaded 25' attached with the Pro Pride! This should means that there is even more latitude than you previously thought on the tongue weight with that setup. Makes me think my dream setup might still be possible.

Now the new question is can we use weight distribution because of the engineering of the VW hitch? I thought VW said it was okay to use weight distribution.

Is the 25' Classic in Georgia? I saw it as well. Don't worry, I'll leave it for you. Please keep me updated, We are approaching the purchase of both tow vehicle and Airstream!

YOU ROCK!

Simon

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by geosimsimma

...So you measured below 700 lbs with a loaded 25' attached with the Pro Pride! This should means that there is even more latitude than you previously thought...

no simon i don't think that's what was found.

i interpret the 'weight report' to be that the TONGUE alone (unloaded/no hitch/no gas)...

was 2 lbs under the factory estimate or at ~778 lbs.

WITH a pp installed that reading will be closer to 1000 lbs.
__________

there are several threads on the ABILITY to use w/d hitches with the t'rex...

but NONE of those threads or reports alter the MANUFACTURE's recommendation (vw says....? )

cheers
2air'

[JFScheck]

Originally Posted by geosimsimma

Is the 25' Classic in Georgia? I saw it as well. Don't worry, I'll leave it for you. Please keep me updated, We are approaching the purchase of both tow vehicle and Airstream!

No - it was further up on the East Coast - but that 25' in Georgia looks like just as good as a deal but I would jump fast after all our talk as I don't see many others out there!

Had the chance to speak with some folks in the "know" on the trailer hitch - and I'll just say that the shear strength of one of the OEM bolts is more than good to support an excess of 10k "statically" - BUT in the same breath these engineers spoke about the OEM hitches and some of the aftermarket hitches being sold and how they are NOT THE SAME TYPE STEEL, THICKNESS, (to include the connecting bolts, etc.) and where there is safety in the engineering using the OEM equipment as the "system was designed as such" - using anything other would not be wise....

This news and driving with Hurley Haywood once more really made for a great week (and it's only Tuesday)....

As a designed system - the OEM hitch is safe up to the numbers as stated with plenty of room for negligence - but only the OEM stuff should be used...

I should post this over in the "Egg" forum but - there is a "Truck" with our chassis running around in South America in testing and its towing much more weight with a new "V8" TDI Diesel!!! Our Chassis was made for four platforms - Porsche, VW, Audi (stretched SUV) and a "Truck" as yet to see the light of day - there was debate about making the "T-Rex" larger as the North Americans would downgrade its off road and towing ability because of its size compared to comparable vehicles - but German Engineering (and the European Markets) prevailed...

Great timing to be attending refresher PDA training...

Simon - PM me for info if needed and perhaps I can be a bit less vague about my references...

[2airishuman]

Originally Posted by JFScheck

...I should post this over in the "Egg" forum but...

took a quick read of you guys thread on the "egg forum"...

Is this trailer too much for a Touareg - Club Touareg Forums

nickM and aircooled (westfalia here) are both giving good council regarding the OVER load issues...

you both appear WAAAAAY off track in understanding what w/d does or does NOT do...

IF thinking that w/d somehow allows for MORE than the stated/rated tongue weights.

w/d does NOT take weight OFF the tongue/A frame...

whatever the tongue weighs is WHAT IT WEIGHs...

what w/d does do is REDISTRIBUTE the SINGLE POINT load (if the tongue were on a post)...

such that MAGNIFIED load at the drive axle is reduced and the SUBTRACTED load at the steering axle is restored.

but it does that by INCREASING greatly the stress/forces at the receiver/hitch/A frame...

it does NOT LIFT the A frame in the simplistic way it appears u think...

the reason vw specs tongue load the SAME with/without w/d is another issue...

and relates to HOW the receiver is attached to the unibody and WHAT w/d does to that attachment.

____________

geo'/simon, the A frame weighs whatever it weighs...

NONE of the hitches (including the PP) 'take weight OFF' the A frame in such a way that one can GO OVER the ratings...

that's magic math and doesn't happen.

read the LATER posts in this thread on the w/d experiment...

starting at ~post # 30 (read the early posts too)...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...rol-17986.html

there is NO LIFTING at the ball that REDUCES the actual weight AT THAT AREA...

in fact there is PUSHING DOWN at the ball area and HIGHER torque/force, over the simple DEAD weight of the tongue.
____________

there are 100s of threads here where...

1. folks know the tongue weight (or estimate)...
2. that tongue weight is OVER some limit (hitch/payload/axle/receiver)
3. and they ASK the question...

"will using a w/d LOWER the tongue weight so i can be within limits or so that i can ADD more weight to the tongue...?"

the answer is always NO.

there is no magic LOWERING of the tongue/A frame weight by using w/d gear...

the tongue weighs what it weighs...

w/d alters HOW that weight is carried by the tow vehicle (receiver/axle/tires)...

but doesn't ALTER the actual tongue weight...

and actually increases the stresses/loads at the receiver.

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f238...eck-56693.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...-ii-21000.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...ion-44825.html

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...ath-23572.html
___________

"egg" or air...

the thinking IS flawed regarding what w/d does and ratings/capacity changes.

cheers
2air'

[JFScheck]

As usual great feedback and much appreciated!!!

I would also like to suggest everyone check out this thread as from what I've discussed with some engineering folks from "Deutschland" today during a lunch break (we discussed this thread in particular and some of the Europeans issues with the North American market - good stuff) its obvious VW, Audi, Porsche & Mercedes need to better educate if they want to sell Tow vehicles in our market.

OF course - at some point (garage space or parking permitted) I'll be picking up a nice Ford F250 or Chevy 2500 when they get their new Disels online and worked out so I can then tow my Airstream at its max weight (full of water, propane, and lots and lots of goodies!

[geosimsimma]

Thanks for all the links! I just skimmed the surface, but liked some of the explanations I saw!

[Road Ruler]

Originally Posted by JFScheck

its obvious VW, Audi, Porsche & Mercedes need to better educate if they want to sell Tow vehicles in our market.

The Euro's and Far Easy auto makers have little to no experience with the WDH's.

It is hard to imagine that Honda doesn't recommend it's use on the Ridgeline, even though the Ridge has one of the strongest unibody structures.

There were also similar issues when the T-Reg first came out. Their marketing folks couldn't seem to make up their minds how to rate the vehicle for towing, even though the mechanics and dynamics where there to do some serious towing.