Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 03-15-2010, 06:07 PM   #29
Rivet Master
 
Road Ruler's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
St. Catharines , South Western Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,364
Images: 39
Sounds good John. It looks like you will end up with one sweet combination.

We too had concerns about hitch weight when putting together our set up but once all together, road ready for an outing, a stop off at the Cat scale showed we were still within the vehicle's axle load rating.
__________________

__________________
Airstreams..... The best towing trailers on the planet!
Road Ruler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 07:15 PM   #30
CLOUDSPLITTER "Tahawas"
 
ROBERT CROSS's Avatar

 
2003 25' Classic
Zanadude Nebula , WNY
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 11,153
Images: 1
John...

FWIW..

The Classic's are no lightweights. It don't take long to put on the pounds.

Our average tongue weight between 980 & 1200lbs.

Loaded for a two week trip we had a tongue weight of 1125lbs. Measured at the ball with a Sherline scale.
Trailer axle wt of 7680 with the WD bars adjusted and trailer level.

good read on their homepage.
__________________

__________________
PFC.....

“After all these years the reason I continue to love Thanksgiving.....I still sit at the kids table.”
RLC

Sandra wanted to go to Cleveland on vacation,
but I’m the Husband, so we went to Cleveland.
RLC
ROBERT CROSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 07:36 PM   #31
Rivet Master
 
Road Ruler's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
St. Catharines , South Western Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,364
Images: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS View Post
John...

FWIW..

The Classic's are no lightweights.

Loaded for a two week trip we had a tongue weight of 1125lbs.
Bob... That is outrageous for a 25' aluminum trailer. Time to call Jenny???....lol
__________________
Airstreams..... The best towing trailers on the planet!
Road Ruler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 07:38 PM   #32
CLOUDSPLITTER "Tahawas"
 
ROBERT CROSS's Avatar

 
2003 25' Classic
Zanadude Nebula , WNY
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 11,153
Images: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by road ruler View Post
bob... That is outrageous for a 25' aluminum trailer. Time to call jenny???....lol
jenny?
__________________
PFC.....

“After all these years the reason I continue to love Thanksgiving.....I still sit at the kids table.”
RLC

Sandra wanted to go to Cleveland on vacation,
but I’m the Husband, so we went to Cleveland.
RLC
ROBERT CROSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 08:57 PM   #33
Rivet Master
 
Road Ruler's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
St. Catharines , South Western Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,364
Images: 39
Jenny Craig....... Jenny Craig Weight Loss Program

sorry, bad joke, Canadian humour.
__________________
Airstreams..... The best towing trailers on the planet!
Road Ruler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-15-2010, 09:19 PM   #34
RLS
Rivet Master
 
RLS's Avatar

 
2004 25' Classic
Prescott , Arizona
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 608
Bob is absolutely right about the Classics having high tongue weights. The 25 Classic tongue weight with nothing in it is 870 lbs.
__________________
Julia & Bob
W/ Deedee & Boo
AIR #30685
RLS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2010, 12:49 AM   #35
Rivet Master
 
JFScheck's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Rockville , Maryland
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,474
Images: 33
The 25 Classic tongue weight for a 2009 model is 780 lbs. (no propane, water, etc.)

That's why I'm so happy - over 60 lbs lighter than the Flying Cloud or International models in their tongue weights.

I will be doing some "crazy" things - such as when I'm heading to my property in Colorado - towing with no water and 1/4 propane - then filling up to max for the final 5 - 10 miles - most of the places I plan on visiting have full hookups, etc.

Now if I were going in the wild "Boondocking" for a week or two - I would be pushing it...

The max weight of the trailer is 8,000 lbs - the max I can tow is 7,700 lbs, not that I'm gonna bump against that end of the spectrum for towing - keeping aware of my water and propane loads will keep me very safe.
__________________
John "JFScheck" Scheck
2015 Roadtrek CS Adventurous XL
2015 Mercedes Sprinter 3500 XL Chassis with Mercedes BlueTec V6 Diesel
**I Love U.S.A.**
JFScheck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2010, 06:52 AM   #36
CLOUDSPLITTER "Tahawas"
 
ROBERT CROSS's Avatar

 
2003 25' Classic
Zanadude Nebula , WNY
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 11,153
Images: 1
[QUOTE=Road Ruler;824413]
sorry, bad joke, Canadian humour..... Oxymoron....

God bless Tim Ho...
__________________
PFC.....

“After all these years the reason I continue to love Thanksgiving.....I still sit at the kids table.”
RLC

Sandra wanted to go to Cleveland on vacation,
but I’m the Husband, so we went to Cleveland.
RLC
ROBERT CROSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2010, 06:57 AM   #37
Rivet Master
 
Road Ruler's Avatar
 
Currently Looking...
St. Catharines , South Western Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 2,364
Images: 39
[QUOTE=ROBERT CROSS;824569]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Road Ruler View Post

God bless Tim Ho...
For sure Bob... A little trivia here.... Tim Ho crashed his Ford Pantera and was killed at the Lake St off ramp In St. Catharines Ontario many years ago. I will be going past the site in about one hour from now.
__________________
Airstreams..... The best towing trailers on the planet!
Road Ruler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2010, 07:03 AM   #38
CLOUDSPLITTER "Tahawas"
 
ROBERT CROSS's Avatar

 
2003 25' Classic
Zanadude Nebula , WNY
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 11,153
Images: 1
He's a Favorite Son here in....
__________________
PFC.....

“After all these years the reason I continue to love Thanksgiving.....I still sit at the kids table.”
RLC

Sandra wanted to go to Cleveland on vacation,
but I’m the Husband, so we went to Cleveland.
RLC
ROBERT CROSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2010, 01:26 PM   #39
_
 
. , .
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 8,812
Quote:
Originally Posted by JFScheck View Post
The 25 Classic tongue weight for a 2009 model is 780 lbs.... over 60 lbs lighter than the Flying Cloud or International models in their tongue weights.

I will be doing some "crazy" things ...
hey jf'

congrats on the new trailer.

having seen your posts about the purchase, your excitement is obvious...

and we ALL hope it goes well.
___________

it's posted repeatedly but worth repeating...

a/s company tongue weights are ESTIMATES only.

until recently the spare tire wasn't included and OPTIONs still aren't.

pay attention to what others are posting as VERIFIED tongue weights...

those are the REAL numbers, bro.

you will also find the OCCASIONAL post from some1 suggesting they tow a HOUSE with their t'rex and all is wonderful...

but those posts almost NEVER have any long term follow up and often come from threads where the poster is LONG gone...

and no longer has a vw OR 'stream...hummmm wonder why?
___________

no one is diss'n the dub' and some of us are huge fans of the vehicle and company how makes 'em.

the 'rated capacity' for towing is ~7700 lbs, impressive for a mid size suv...

even more impressive is that these german magicians provide that rating WITHOUT reductions for tv payload...

that's right the STUFF in the dub' doesn't reduce the towing capacity...

this platform is unique in that regard and i would love to know how they managed that.

1. the real towing capacity is MUCH higher than 7700 lbs

2. the slide rule had mustard on it that day and the engineer had too much beer for lunch.

regardless the gvwr is 7000+ lbs with a TC of 7700 lbs and a gCwr of ~15,000 lb...

so the dub's got guts (seen those videos of it towing a 747?)
___________

but here in the ISSUE imo and i see no obvious solution...

the factory OR aftermarket receiver AND how it is attached to the shell/rails AND how w/d stresses that arrangement.

i have posted these pics before but lets RErun them for the sake of currency...
__________

lets start with a schematic of the receiver and mounting hardware.


Click image for larger version

Name:	vw_receiverr.jpg
Views:	67
Size:	102.2 KB
ID:	98206


the ISSUE right away is how this thing is attached...

it's basically held on to the END of the unibody/rail area by 4 bolts per side...

MOST receivers attach along the LENGHT of the frame rails or unibody.

and MOST receivers above the class 3 and at class 4 rating use more nuts/bolts.

more on this later.

next lets look at how vw PACKAGES this thing...

Click image for larger version

Name:	touareg receiver.jpg
Views:	60
Size:	83.1 KB
ID:	98207

this 3 part photo shows the receiver, how COSMETICALLY it's tucked behind the bumper facade, and the UNDER pinnings...

now on CLOSER inspection here is the receiver again...

Click image for larger version

Name:	vw receiver.jpg
Views:	64
Size:	86.2 KB
ID:	98208

there are NO longitudinally FORWARD S P R E A D E R S of the load/stress/forces...

basically it's a BOTTLE CAP held in place with bolts through flat/folded SHEET metal.

focusing more closely on how this looks UNDER the bumper (ZOOM the pics in another window)...

Click image for larger version

Name:	vw receiver mounted.jpg
Views:	54
Size:	216.2 KB
ID:	98209

we can now see this as it ACTUALLY is attached.

lets assume those nuts/bolts get properly torqued during install.

with a w/d hitch the UPPER bolts will be UNloaded as the receiver is COMPRESSED into the body work...

while the LOWER bolts are S T R E T C H E D rearward by the w/d forces....

in other words, w/d bars will be PRYING at the attachment point like a BOTTLE OPENER.

this arrangement and these mechanical forces might be OK with lighter w/d setting...

but there is NO WAY to easily inspect the receiver/attachment/bolts once the bumper cover is back on...

so with USE, one cannot CHECK on this critical area.

how tight are those bolts again?
____________

now lets add the HITCH of choice to the mix...

a PP may totally eliminate sway or the SENSATION of sway for the driver...

but while the PP is doing this it places MAJOR lateral/rotational stresses at the receiver box...

IN ADDITION to the w/d torque there which GREATLY exceeds the tongue weight...

(((think 1000-1500 lbs of torque for a 800 lb tongue)))
____________

even those crazy canadians who regularly MODIFY receivers and how they attach to unibody or suvs frame rails...

haven't solved THIS ONE...

because the GOAL of the modifications is to SPREAD the stress/forces over a greater area (like an 8 legged spider)

and that is NO EASY task with the receiver and space shown above for the vw/audi/porsche...

typically the forces/attachments are spread FORWARD (longitudinally) along the under side of the unibody/rails..

but that arrangement isn't possible with THIS setup on the t'rex.
___________

devoman tows his 25 with a 'rex but using VERY little w/d tension

and mostly for shorter trips within the FLAT, STRAIGHT regions of florida.

i think YOU are gonna have to approach YOUR rig, carefully, slowly, with some understanding of the limitations and risks...

big time.
____________

one could REMOVE the lp bottles, cover and batteries to lighten the tongue...

that's wouldn't make travel much fun and there would be NO BACK UP JUICE for the brakes...

but towing without LPGAS is sorta silly too,

because there will be NO fridge function, NO hot water or heat or cooking while EN-ROUTE...

((ok, here's a crazy solution for that issue, carry and use a few DISPOSABLE cooking bottles (1 lb each))

one could REMOVE some interior bits (like the stuff up front) but again is that really how ya wanna travel?

carrying WATER might lower the tongue weight some (depending on tank/axle arrangement) but will require SCALE readings to confirm...

and so on.

also keep in mind the TOWING STABILITY of these things requires 10-15% of the TOTAL TRAILER WEIGHT be ON the tongue...

7000-8000 lb trailer = 700-1000 lb tongue.
____________

many of us do the occasional "crazy things" u mention.

some call those calculated risks or personalized tweaks...

but with a tongue mass that may EXCEED 800 lbs based on REAL measures the other 25'ers are providing...

AND the mass of a PP (another 200 lbs)...

i would NOT be comfortable with that receiver placement, attachment or the inability to INSPECT it regularly...

again congrats on the new trailer, have a memorably FUN trip fetchin' it and keep us posted via photoz and words...

cheers
2air'
__________________
all of the true things that i am about to tell you are shameless lies. l.b.j.

we are here on earth to fart around. don't let anybody tell you any different. k.v.
2airishuman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2010, 02:19 PM   #40
CLOUDSPLITTER "Tahawas"
 
ROBERT CROSS's Avatar

 
2003 25' Classic
Zanadude Nebula , WNY
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 11,153
Images: 1
Model: 2009 - 25' CLASSIC LIMITED FRONT BEDROOM STANDARD FEATURES

CHASSIS
8000 Lb. GVWR • 7600 Lb. Axle System • 5900# UBW • 2100# NCC • Hitch Weight: 780# • Safety Chain Hook 11,700#.


Notice that you have an 8000lb GVWR on a 7600lb axle rating.
__________________
PFC.....

“After all these years the reason I continue to love Thanksgiving.....I still sit at the kids table.”
RLC

Sandra wanted to go to Cleveland on vacation,
but I’m the Husband, so we went to Cleveland.
RLC
ROBERT CROSS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2010, 04:47 PM   #41
Rivet Master
 
JFScheck's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Rockville , Maryland
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,474
Images: 33
You guys DO ROCK and I appreciate all the great feedback!

So - unlike the rest of you all - I must be cognizant of my weight at all times...

Being a small aircraft private pilot I'm already used to this...

I did have the tongue weighed - and it came out at 2 pounds lighter than published - so a few of the options this trailer has installed in the back might be the reason for the delta up at the tounge...

So no throwing in stuff willy nilly, maxing out the hot water and regular water tanks, 80 lbs of propane, generator, etc. then loading up with hundereds of pounds of canned goods.

But - looking at my figures - if I were so inclined to put in 54 gallons of water, full 80 lbs of propane, Hot Water heater full of water, and 125 lb generator with 5 gallons fuel - I'm sitting at 6,520 lbs before I drive off which is still below my 85% max tow weight. Subtract some water and I gain up to 451 lbs! For what I do that works for me!

Now - in a year or two when I can have room for a full size F250 Truck (still diesel) next to my T-Rex and little red german coupe - I will be able to max this bad boy up with NO FEAR and maybe do some "boondocking" out in the wild - but for now I'm good!!!

You folks are a real resource and hope to meet a few of you soon....
Oh - and did I say You All Rock!!!
__________________
John "JFScheck" Scheck
2015 Roadtrek CS Adventurous XL
2015 Mercedes Sprinter 3500 XL Chassis with Mercedes BlueTec V6 Diesel
**I Love U.S.A.**
JFScheck is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2010, 04:52 PM   #42
Rivet Master
 
JFScheck's Avatar
 
Vintage Kin Owner
Rockville , Maryland
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,474
Images: 33
Always wanted to use that "Rock Band" icon....

Oh and Robert - that is good news since I can't go over 7,700 lbs - I won't ever exceed 7,600 which keeps me behind that 8k max limit...
__________________

__________________
John "JFScheck" Scheck
2015 Roadtrek CS Adventurous XL
2015 Mercedes Sprinter 3500 XL Chassis with Mercedes BlueTec V6 Diesel
**I Love U.S.A.**
JFScheck is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need new tow vehicle Barry Parkof Tow Vehicles 26 10-17-2009 05:11 PM
Best tow vehicle? Chef Jeff Tow Vehicles 88 10-25-2008 10:26 PM
Tow vehicle rogerdodger Tow Vehicles 32 05-24-2008 10:24 PM
my new tow vehicle wayne.yl Tow Vehicles 25 01-22-2007 09:43 PM
Help with Tow Vehicle Craftsman Tow Vehicles 11 07-24-2004 06:43 PM


Virginia Campgrounds

Reviews provided by




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.

Airstream is a registered trademark of Airstream Inc. All rights reserved. Airstream trademark used under license to Social Knowledge LLC.