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Old 09-05-2010, 01:32 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2airishuman View Post
we don't wanna seem UNwelcoming...

so WELCOME with' to the 3 ring circus here.



well with' therez curious issues in play.

your account is nearly 6 years old,

yet the first posts are NOW and on this topic ?

that is VERY unusual and prompts one to wonder...

still it's great a thread appeared that PULLED u into the abyss here...



now that u r IN IT understand that many may applaud the info provided...

while others question it or critique' it or down right OBJECT 2 it...

that's life in a forum.
_______

the x5 should have had ~ a 1200 lb payload rating along with that 6k towing figure...

typically the towing capacity is REDUCED by people, gear, accessories IN or ON the vehicle...

so a wag (wild arse guess) is U may have had 500-800 lbs of people, fuel and gear with out the trailer?

which means the TC is now 5200-5500.

WELL BELOW the reported trailer weight.

and since a haha weighs ~250 lbs,

so add THAT along with a typical 31 ftr TONGUE weight, lp gas, spare tire AND the x5 payload...

suggests the set up would have been grossly OVER every parameter....

payload, tongue, towing capacity, tire rating, axle rating and so on...

hp yes, torque ok, brakes good...

but the rest is pure WACKY...

which is but ONE of the things yer' shop wizard is known 4.
_________

wanna drive 85, ok with me.

wanna make CRAZY LANE changes to proVe handling prowess, go for it...

((that's a canAm thing right?))

but understand that BRAGGING about a rig combination that is this far outside the bubble...

well that bragging bubble is gonna be popped.
_________

so, EXPECT to be questioned

or the info ridiculed, and MAJOR questioning 4 posting some of this stuff...

in the same way that when someone posts...

"hey i drank 6 beers and 2 shots of jack and towed GREAT, while texting on my phone blindfolded"...

they might draw fire.

don't take it personally but hi risk behaviors (or those considered hi risK) will get attacked.
________

now the OTHER sorta odd or inconsistent bit is this...

according to the ENTRY by U in your profile (the exchange with marc) BACK in 2005...

5 years ago this rig had been used for towing 25,000 miles already...

and those "3" passes on the continental divide...

ALL happened ONE TIME on the maid voyage nearly 9 years ago?

??does this mean you have only used the x5/stream for 5,000 miles in the last 5 years?

in other words 1000 miles a year or less of towing since 2005?

also it would appear the x5 has only been drive 30,000 miles in the last 5 years too?

in other words less than 1/3 of the total mileage reported now?
________

does it also mean your haha is nearly 10 years old?

has it been serviced (bearings inspected/packed, painted or anything)??
________

details matter

and ENTHUSIASM about what reads like a GREAT field trip to canada 9 years ago is fun to read...

but WHY did you wait so LONG for a first post on this stuff?

cheers
2air'
I guess you are basically in the same pew as the other fellow but a little less caustic in your delivery.

Stating fact is not bragging.

Had I provided all of the details of my last 9 years on the assumption that I would be put through the 3rd degree for not volunteering enough information I would have been derided for giving too much information; canít win.

Itís not anyoneís business when or how often I use my assembly, but to answer your query in a general way I will say that my family situation changed a number of times over the last nine years (has yours?) and the assemblyís usage reflect those changes (as does my accessing this web site). I last used the assembly in August of this year on a one week 1,500 mile round trip, so Iím not just reminiscing. I have a number of other vehicles (3 cars, 2 motor cycles, an airplane) and in the last few years ONLY use the X5 to tow the Airstream. Does this explain the time/mileage conundrum to your satisfaction?

As to maintenance, I do all of it myself as I have the technical expertise, facility, tools and quite honestly find it enjoyable. The X5 still has its OEM brake pads at 101,722 miles (evidencing that I donít abuse my tow vehicle) but is due for its FIRST brake pad replacements (the disks are OK) when I can get around to it this month. The V8 engine only consumes about 1 pint of Mobil 1 15W-50 between its 6,500 mile oil changes (broke it in correctly and donít abuse it). Changed the synthetic transmission oil ($32/qt), differential oil, power steering oil, etc. about 25,000 miles ago. Other than routine maintenance there have been no drive train issues.

The Airstream wheel bearings have been packed as directed and I just purchased its first set of new tires last month for the 1,500 mile trip (they still had tread but were too aged).

As to loading the assembly, I bias the load to the rear of the Airstream as the Hensley interface allows for this without creating controllability issues. I carry 5 to 8 gallons of fresh water for the toilet and only about 3 gallons fuel in the genset tank.

I was a Lube Engineer with a major oil company for a number of years; Iím a technical ďgear headĒ; I know what Iím doing.

Consider this: How does that little relatively short two axle UPS tractor control a semi trailer with a second full trailer attached to the semi trailer at speed. That little short wheel base tractor is relatively no different than my X5.

Itís hard to shift your paradigm, break away from old knowledge and beliefs; I hope youíll try.

To the others enduring this back and forth I apologize, but left un-defended I would be considered guilty of spreading misinformation. I learned a long time ago not to allow that.

I will answer sincere questions about my assembly, but will no longer continue this diatribe.
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Old 09-05-2010, 06:36 AM   #44
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I don't want to add to the flames here and I certainly don't have time for an endless discussion but I would like to point out something that happens on this forum.

When Withidi visited our store for two weeks I might have taught him a few things about towing but I learned a huge amount from him. He knows more about Polymers lubrication coolants and how it relates to vehicles break in etc. than anyone I have met. He was able to explain some very complex properties in ways that I could understand. He knows more about vehicles than 99% of the people that contribute here. I have used his information extensively over the years. He could be a great asset to this forum.

However since some people don't like his tow vehicle they are ready to discount everything he has to say and he likely won't return after all who needs it.

Here is a person that has been towing extensively with the same vehicle for 10 years and gives his experience and some are ready to jump all over him. It always amazes me how some people feel they are experts about a combination that they have never driven let alone pushed anywhere near its limits.

I don't know what you think would be a viable test of handling, hurricane cross winds? a tight road coarse? or the slaloms and lane changes that we test with. You choose the test take any stock 3/4 ton truck and Airstream you care to use and I will take the X5 and the same Airstream I will make that 3/4 ton and Airstream look as slow as molasses. Then I will put you behind the wheel of the BMW and you will see that driving it at the speed that was the limit of the 3/4 ton is easy as a Sunday drive in the BMW.

From a stopping distance perspective it is just no contest the BMW / Airstream stops at least 30' shorter from 65 mph. During all the solo miles that the vehicle is not towing the differences in accident avoidance and stopping distance are exponentailly greater there is just no contest which is the safest vehicle solo and that is far more miles than the towing miles.

In regards to liability, if you get in an accident and it is your fault you are liable. If it is not your fault then you are not. With the X5 your are far less likely to get in an accident that is your fault and far less likely to get into an accident that is someone elses fault. I can think of no situation at highway speed where I had to max out the vehicles capability where I would rather have a 3/4 ton than an X5.

Andrew T
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Old 09-05-2010, 07:11 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by withidl View Post
... I last used the assembly in August of this year on a one week 1,500 mile round trip, so I’m not just reminiscing...and in the last few years ONLY use the X5 to tow the Airstream. Does this explain the time/mileage conundrum to your satisfaction?...
it is true no ONE has to share OR defend, but just to clarify, the x5 is now only driven ~1,500 miles annually?

Quote:
Originally Posted by withidl View Post
...The V8 engine only consumes about 1 pint of Mobil 1 15W-50 between its 6,500 mile oil changes (broke it in correctly and don’t abuse it). Changed the synthetic transmission oil ($32/qt), differential oil, power steering oil, etc. about 25,000 miles ago...
surely the oil changes are NOT done every 3-5 years?

maybe the other lubes were last swapped in 2005? when the rig already had 71,000 miles?

((for those confused here is the 2005 reference and usage report THEN...))

Left Side With BMW - BMW X5 4.4i & 2002 Airstream Classic Ltd 31A Photo Gallery

Quote:
Originally Posted by withidl View Post
...As to loading the assembly, I bias the load to the rear of the Airstream as the Hensley interface allows for this without creating controllability issues. I was a Lube Engineer with a major oil company for a number of years; I’m a technical “gear head”; I know what I’m doing...
see the above, this seems very sophomoric...

no one has suggested you do NOT know what u r doing, but have you weighed the trailer tongue?

exactly WHAT does "bias the load to the rear" mean?

lightening the tongue weight ENOUGH to keep within the 1200 lb payload limits of the x5 seems impossible...

and IF possible defies all acceptable info on loading for stability.

got a scale ticket on the x5 axle loads WHILE hooked up to the stream?

having used a haha for 5 years and 80,000 miles of towing,

i can report that it STILL requires respect to SORTA proper loading of the stream.

Quote:
Originally Posted by withidl View Post
...Consider this: How does that little relatively short two axle UPS tractor control a semi trailer with a second full trailer attached to the semi trailer at speed. That little short wheel base tractor is relatively no different than my X5...
the "how do semi towing trucks do it?" argument is old stuff.

but wheelbase aside the semi has tires, axles and structure RATED for the load

and HOPEFULLY a UPrated license in the driver's possession.

along with ALL the other differences this is like comparing german auto engineering to treating hemorrhoids...

Quote:
Originally Posted by withidl View Post
...it's hard to shift your paradigm, break away from old knowledge and beliefs; I hope you’ll try...
it isn't MY paradigm and ratings or capacity aren't OLD beliefs (they may be based on old assumptions)

how ratings are developed or applied or IGNORED...

are fodder for many other threads here, go read and then enlighten us...

Quote:
Originally Posted by withidl View Post
... left un-defended I would be considered guilty of spreading misinformation...
NO one has suggested your 85 mph towing, 100,000 mile brake pads, UNloaded trailer tongue...

or towing well over EVERY rating for the x5, about 20 hours annually is MISinformation...

but on total and when teased apart the particulars are questionably useful to the o.p.

unless u r suggesting that the o.p. can pull a modern 34 footer with anything,

while ignoring ALL ratings and do safely, without ware OR risk/liability...

this begins to SHIFT the theme IN this thread to something like this one...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...epid-3636.html
_________

it also causes one to wonder is some folks IN that thread (and this one)

are using multiple accounts to drive some of these discussions...

http://www.airforums.com/forums/f318...nts-68979.html

in fact based on the thread above it absolutely appears to be some of the same players IN different account names...

Quote:
Originally Posted by withidl View Post
...I will answer sincere questions about my assembly, but will no longer continue this diatribe.
do as u please but trust that those suggesting it is NOT wise to ignore ratings (except hp/torque) ARE sincere...

and suggesting that citizens living in the usa, driving on u.s. roads and tied to the u.s. legal system after endangering others...

should take their rigs to canada...

for arguably illegal modifications that NO ONE in the lower 48 does

and that are NOT supported by airstream OR bmw or legit manufacturers...

well THAT nonsense is gonna provoke response and debate.

again welcome (here) aboard with your magic bus.

cheers
2air'
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Old 09-05-2010, 07:39 AM   #46
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some how this post got mangled in the edit process, perhaps i can recreate it later...

cheers
2air'
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Old 09-05-2010, 07:48 AM   #47
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So let me ask you would a Ford 3/4 Ton 7.3 litre diesel 4x4 crew cab short box which weighs 7400 pounds empty with a GVWR of 8600 pounds therefore 1200 pounds of load capacity be overloaded with the same trailer?
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Old 09-05-2010, 07:53 AM   #48
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One other thing please be specific about what you mean by when the ---- hits the fan. What situation would this be?

Yes I have looked into the US liability laws as has my insurance company and company's for people such as Hensley. If the risk was so large or there was any track record do you think we could buy insurance?

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Old 09-05-2010, 08:02 AM   #49
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Did I miss the "Flame On" setting for this thread? It appears to have been hijacked and taken a long way from the original question.

Tow Vehicle Consultant
I'm trying to pull a 34 ft Limited with a Yukon 5.3L. Want to go out West next year and run around in the mountains for a while. I think I need a new vehicle (judging from my white knuckle event getting out of a fishing camp on Dale Hollow lake this Summer - 30 seconds of 9MPH at 1800RPM with cliffs all around). Can't get any straight talk from the dealers and all I see from most of the forums is to go with a 3/4 ton diesel. Anyone know of a consultant (I don't mind paying a fee) that can advise me on a tow vehicle that isn't "overkill" but is comfortable to drive with confidence? I just installed a ProPride hitch and it solved my sway problem but the Yukon just doesn't seem to have the guts to pull it uphill. Regards, Don Hetzler.
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Old 09-05-2010, 08:05 AM   #50
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nope, can't retrieve it...

well andy over loaded IS over loaded.

that applies to any vehicle imo or any rig combo.

are there SOME EXAMPLES that might tolerate OVER capacity better than others...

sure, but that OVER capacity tolerance will vary based on what the expectations are...

and which component/s are over the rating (or over the actual capacity which is different)

it also will depend on how much use and exactly what condition exists for the overloaded set up...

but the point is a margin of capacity or safety or reserve is just that, a margin.

i know what if feels like to break stuff and go "woops" i guess that was a bit TOO far...

that's not a confidence inspiring approach when towing.
________

do you REALLY wanna tell folks bound by the u.s. legal system that you've got them covered?

when can we expect a facility to open in the usa that replicates your work?

cheers
2air'
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Old 09-05-2010, 10:39 AM   #51
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I Wanted to be one of them there TOW VEHICLE CONSULTANTS and make the big money BUT someone beat me to it Earlier in this thread . Dam My Luck !
ALWAYS A DAY LATE AND A DOLLAR SHORT seems as though.
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Old 09-05-2010, 11:09 AM   #52
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I Wanted to be one of them there TOW VEHICLE CONSULTANTS and make the big money BUT someone beat me to it Earlier in this thread . Dam My Luck !
ALWAYS A DAY LATE AND A DOLLAR SHORT seems as though.
Hi Roger,

If you are talking about my post, you can have the job. I already made enough to retire from it.

Regards,

Ken
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Old 09-05-2010, 05:28 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by withidl View Post

Itís hard to shift your paradigm, break away from old knowledge and beliefs; I hope youíll try.

To the others enduring this back and forth I apologize, but left un-defended I would be considered guilty of spreading misinformation. I learned a long time ago not to allow that.

I will answer sincere questions about my assembly, but will no longer continue this diatribe.
Good day withidl... Sounds like you are a very knowledgeable kind of guy and many of us on the forum appreciate learning and understanding the advanced mechanics and physics involved with our passion. Hopefully you can ignore the trifles of a little hot hare and spend some time on this forum.

I for one really appreciate the update with your X5 towing history and have also experienced the joy of towing with a Can Am setup.

For the poster who is looking for a towing specialist/consultant Mr.T is well known and goes highly recommended.
There was a thread not to long ago that spoke of a guy in Texas that was going to travel to Canada to get a custom hitch installed. Jolly for him for taking the steps and to make the trip for an optimal towing pkg.
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Old 09-05-2010, 07:00 PM   #54
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Noisy Dodges?

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Originally Posted by r carl View Post
Your love for dodge is well taken, but there is nothing more irritating than a ford or dodge diesel pulling into a campground hammering and clattering.
I can only speak for the 2008 2500HD 6.7 Cummings. Very quite and the exhaust brake works great. We're pulling a 2008 Classic 30' and are never short on power. Jerry
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Old 09-05-2010, 08:35 PM   #55
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Pretty interesting discussion - though at times a bit heated! No doubt this issue has been hammered out many times before - and probably will again!

For my part, even though I admit to wondering if I am guilty of overkill when I read of some folks towing very happily with much smaller vehicles. I do what I do for several basic reasons.


(1) I have towed several travel trailers many times back and forth across the continent over the last thirty years or so.


My trailers were always within the rated towing capacity of my tow vehicles, but each time I changed tow vehicles and/or I found that I was moving to a combination that gave me a greater margin of towing capacity in relation to the weight of the trailer I was towing.

I also found from my own experience the benefit of a longer wheelbase tow vehicle and moved in that direction.

With each such change, I found the towing experience just got better and better, lower incidence of mechanical breakdown, and a much more relaxed - and IMHO a safer towing experience.

(2) I tend to be a worry wart and just would not feel at ease towing a trailer that I was fully aware significantly exceeded my tow vehicle's rating.

Not only does it seem to me to fly in the face of good judgement, but I thnk there are just too many sharp lawyers out there looking for any way to best represent their own clients, as well as insurance companies (mine most likely!) looking for any opportunity to avoid paying claims!



(3) I generally have extended warranties on vehicles I use for towing - I know from past experience the length that some of these companies will go to to avoid paying up and I don't want to hand them ready-made excuses on a platter!

Those are my reasons for doing what I do.

I am a retired mechanical engineer, but claim no expertise in this particular field, and I do respect the opinions of those who have much greater knowledge and hands-on experience than I in this area.

I think we each need to be comfortable with the decisions we make Though, and in this case, I am!

As they say - different strokes!


Wonder if the original poster expected all this! Hope there is something useful to him somewhere in all of it!


Brian
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Old 09-06-2010, 12:49 PM   #56
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Quote:
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So let me ask you would a Ford 3/4 Ton 7.3 litre diesel 4x4 crew cab short box which weighs 7400 pounds empty with a GVWR of 8600 pounds therefore 1200 pounds of load capacity be overloaded with the same trailer?
What year F250 are you refering to? I am not familier with a 7.3 F250 with a GVWR of less than 8800 pounds. Adios, John
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