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Old 03-12-2004, 08:30 AM   #57
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Re: cat

it should be able to tow anything except an aircraft carrier!

john [/B][/QUOTE]

John,
With beer any thing is possible!!
Abe
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Old 03-12-2004, 09:16 AM   #58
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I think the Catapiller driver just didn't like Fords!

Can ya blame 'em?
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Old 03-12-2004, 09:25 AM   #59
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Re: cat

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Originally posted by john hd
hey

i hear catapillar is coming out with a new tow vehicle!

john
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Old 02-27-2005, 12:05 AM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoadKingMoe
The manufacturer's towing guides and tow capacity numbers have to be generated by the marketing department who haven't a clue what happens in the real world.

If you look at the specifications for the Expedition on Ford's Fleet site, you'll find that someone with a little common sense slipped a Maximum Trailer Weight in there:

4.6L V8 - 5271 lbs./4x4 - 5569 lbs.
5.4L V8 - 5420 lbs./4x4 - 5689 lbs.

The 119" wheelbase is also WAY too short for a 29' trailer, where you should be at least 134" of wheelbase.
Hmmmm...newbi here, having to start trouble I guess...actually, this post is what made me finally register...I've been lerking for awhile.

According to the 2004 tow guide, and for anyone who wants it, it is PDF and downloadable...it says, 5.4L with the 3.73 gears and HD Tow package is 8950lbs for the 4x2, 8650lbs for the 4x4...and GCWR is 14,500.

The engine will have no problem towing that weight...the trans will probably be the weak link...after all, don't they put that same exact engine in their tow vehicles, all the way up to the F350?

As for wheelbase and stability...how do you come to those numbers? I'm really curious there...is there a formula for calculating wheelbase to trailer length stability?
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Old 02-27-2005, 12:15 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by kmtyme
Well I have been reading all the threads and am confused..We also are looking for a new tow vehicle..but, we need a SUV for hauling people & stuff...pulling a 29' 6800lb. (weighed it yesterday) trailer...we were going to get the Expedition with the 5.4 (we are a Ford family)(supposed to pick it up TODAY) to replace the Explorer that we have been using only for short trips recently since we got the trailer..but Consuer Reports does not recommend it nor does Motor Trend and now Car and Driver...which recommends the Nissan Pathfinder Armada. It is rated higher than the Expedition for towing..power etc... sister to the Titan. According to Car and Driver the Armada is the TOW VEHICLE to get.. now I might add that I have to drive this vehicle everyday around town so the Excursion and the like are just tooo big for me...drove a diesel and it was way too noisy for me...I am going this morning to see the Armada...will it be enough engine?? Rated at 9100lbs. Check out Car and Driver...So all of you out there, any suggestions...
A year later...is 150lbs a worthy difference? And also 4 inches of wheelbase? I have a cousin with an Armada...thing is falling apart at the seems with 24,000 miles on the clock...been through 4 sets of rotors, 2 front seats, and the dealer can't seem to figure out why roof liner with the DVD player is shaking so badly you can't see the screen...

Great tow vehicle though...they are towing a triple axle boat trailer with a 26' Advantage Boat...pretty heavy I guess...boat and trailer are around 6,500 lbs. Tows real easy.

-Sam
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Old 02-27-2005, 12:43 AM   #62
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Here is what I see for me....

I have a 2004 Expedition 5.4L 3.73 gears, HD Tow...according to Ford, I'm allowed 14,500lbs of total combined weights.

I'm looking at the 25' Safari with the Front Bedroom layout. Rated by Airstream at 7300lbs fully loaded...hitch around 850lbs I'm guessing with the LPG bottles full, et al.

If I start subtracting...5500 for the TV and 7300 for the trailer, I have 1700lbs of weight to play with. Now, I'm not quite sure how it all works with tongue weights, so I'll double ding myself, and subtract the tongue weight as well...now I'm at 850lbs left. My wife, the kids (combined weight, 50lbs...using 100 each for future reference) and myself weigh in at 550 total, and 300lbs of crap come out to 14,500lbs...not being considerate of my 168lbs of gas at full tank at this point.

Now, explain to me the tongue weight thing...it is considered payload because it is directly linked to the vehicle...so do I get to subtract the full weight of the tongue from the trailer?

I would also like to know how to calculate trailer length/wheelbase "comfortability" numbers as well. How can I tell what my 119" wheelbase will tow comfortably?? Is there a scientific formula? Or is it just seat of the pants?

Thanks everyone!

Sam
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Old 02-27-2005, 08:58 AM   #63
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There are several formulas floating around on the 'net concerning wheelbase for a given trailer size. None are based on anything more than guesswork, so far as I can see. And I do not see how a generic forumla could ever be developed when there are so many towing platforms. All the following factors will have an effect: wheelbase, track, solid axle(s) vs. independent suspension, center of gravity, stiffness of the frame, distance from the rear axle of the tow vehicle to the hitch ball, type of sway and load leveling equipment, weight balance of the coach, number of axles, aerodynamics of the coach, and others that probably will occur to me later.

That said, one formula that makes as much sense as any to me says the wheelbase should be at least half of the distance from the center of the ball coupler to the center of the rearmost axle.

Under any reckoning, 119" is a short wheelbase. And the Expedition has a hight center of gravity. But the 25' Airstreams tow well, and are not particularly long.

The tongue weight issue falls into two seperate, but related categories. If you use a load leveling hitch (and you should), not ALL the tongue weight will fall on the tow vehicle. But for calculation of the gross vehicle weight as well as the allowable load on the rear axle, I would pretend it does. For calculation of the gross combined vehicle weight restriction, ignore tongue weight as it is just a subset of the coach weight.

Mark
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Old 02-27-2005, 11:16 AM   #64
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Mark,

Interesting insights! So using that formula, I should not have a trailer who's wheelbase from hitch to rear axle is more than 19.8 feet.

Now, if Airstream and others would publish this figure, it would make choosing a bit easier!

So between a weight distributing hitch, anti sway and also an airhitch receiver, I should be ok? I would guess that these things would only lead to helping with a slightly longer trailer than normally doable...even with the weight requirements met.

Thanks again,

Sam

Quote:
Originally Posted by j54mark
There are several formulas floating around on the 'net concerning wheelbase for a given trailer size. None are based on anything more than guesswork, so far as I can see. And I do not see how a generic forumla could ever be developed when there are so many towing platforms. All the following factors will have an effect: wheelbase, track, solid axle(s) vs. independent suspension, center of gravity, stiffness of the frame, distance from the rear axle of the tow vehicle to the hitch ball, type of sway and load leveling equipment, weight balance of the coach, number of axles, aerodynamics of the coach, and others that probably will occur to me later.

That said, one formula that makes as much sense as any to me says the wheelbase should be at least half of the distance from the center of the ball coupler to the center of the rearmost axle.

Under any reckoning, 119" is a short wheelbase. And the Expedition has a hight center of gravity. But the 25' Airstreams tow well, and are not particularly long.

The tongue weight issue falls into two seperate, but related categories. If you use a load leveling hitch (and you should), not ALL the tongue weight will fall on the tow vehicle. But for calculation of the gross vehicle weight as well as the allowable load on the rear axle, I would pretend it does. For calculation of the gross combined vehicle weight restriction, ignore tongue weight as it is just a subset of the coach weight.

Mark
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Old 02-27-2005, 05:38 PM   #65
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Sam,

You need to do a little more math. A lot of people have found that they exceed the rear axle gross wt rating long before they reach the gross combination maximum. Also, it's pretty much a consensus that your trailer should not be more that 75% of the rated tow capacity. You're close to 85%.

The reason there isn't a scientific basis for the wheelbase rule is that the most critical variable is the tire adhesion and sidewall stiffness.
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Old 02-28-2005, 12:52 AM   #66
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Interesting! Thanks man...that is usefull info for sure. You guys are going to talk me into a 1 ton dually for sure!



Quote:
Originally Posted by markdoane
Sam,

You need to do a little more math. A lot of people have found that they exceed the rear axle gross wt rating long before they reach the gross combination maximum. Also, it's pretty much a consensus that your trailer should not be more that 75% of the rated tow capacity. You're close to 85%.

The reason there isn't a scientific basis for the wheelbase rule is that the most critical variable is the tire adhesion and sidewall stiffness.
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Old 04-20-2005, 07:25 AM   #67
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Tow Vehicle

I have a friend that wants a 25' Airstream and ONLY wants an automobile to pull with. NO truck NO suv, anyone got a suggestion?
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Old 04-20-2005, 08:47 AM   #68
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I have heard that the Crown Victoria sedan is a great solid tow car.
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Old 04-20-2005, 10:59 AM   #69
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Old 04-20-2005, 11:04 AM   #70
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New or Vintage?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torpedo Family
I have a friend that wants a 25' Airstream and ONLY wants an automobile to pull with. NO truck NO suv, anyone got a suggestion?
The vintage trailers are lighter would have more options...

Shari
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