Touareg+25FB without WDH ?

[Timofeevich]

Anyone is using Touareg with 25FB International/Flying Cloud WITHOUT Weight Distribution Hitch (Hensley pr ProPride) ? Is it safe to drive ?

[Jammer]

No.

No.

[blmitch5]

I have to use WD hitch with a 19' Bambi. So no.

[mojo]

If you have air suspension, the Touareg will automatically level out. And you can tow without a WDH with a smaller trailer, but I would not suggest that you try it with any thing larger than a 20'.

A PP3 or HA also helps with sway and I would recommend it or other system with a 25'. If you don't have air suspension you wil most definitely need a WD hitch. It will also require some weight balancing since the hitch weight can exceed the max if you don't pack properly. But the Touareg is a very capable tow vehicle for that size TT in the V8, V10 or V6TDI.

[moosetags]

I must agree. That's not a good idea, and asking for problems.

Brian

[Jammer]

There was a pattern of crashes in the 1970s involving people towing without WD who had air suspension that hid the extent to which the weight had come off the front axle.

With a large trailer WD is the most important feature for towing safety. People who get away without out it are either lucky or have large TVs that are front-heavy when they are not towing, and a short rear overhang.

[mojo]

Originally Posted by Jammer

There was a pattern of crashes in the 1970s involving people towing without WD who had air suspension that hid the extent to which the weight had come off the front axle.

With a large trailer WD is the most important feature for towing safety. People who get away without out it are either lucky or have large TVs that are front-heavy when they are not towing, and a short rear overhang.

There have been great advances in automotive technology and safety since the seventies. If you have never owned a Touareg, then you might not understand the differences between their air suspension systems and the manual airlift bags on the rear axle of a 3/4 ton Suburban.

Touaregs have a short rear overhang and can tow a short trailer under 5000lbs without a WD hitch. I towed a Bambi for 40,000 miles with only a friction sway bar without any problems. However I would use a WD hitch when towing with full water.

They said you can never carry bikes on the back of an Airstream and everyone preached it like the gospel. Yet now Airstream sells a bike rack that mounts on the back of Airstream. Technology is changing.

[Friday]

My Sequoia has air-levelling... as Mojo says, the short overhang from the rear axle makes it harder for weight transfer... and if you do the math, you can actually unload the REAR wheels if you are set up wrong...

[barts]

I would follow VW's recommendations here.

From what I read on the Toureg fora, a weight distributing hitch is not recommended with the TDI.

- Bart

[mojo]

Not recommended but a WDH may be used, especially when loading to the max such as with a 25' AS. This also requires loading gear into the back of the trailer as opposed to the trunk of the car so you don't exceed the cars GVWR. I don't think it is wise to go much larger but there are some that pull 27, 28 and even a 30.

[TinLoaf]

Although the manual says not to use a weight distribution hitch, dropping 800 pounds of tongue weight will overload your rear axle and lighten your front axle. Not a good situation. The air suspension will level the Touareg, but it won't transfer weight to the front axle like a weight distributing hitch will. Sure it will be level, but not ideal.

I have a 25SS and I'm taking the advice of CanAm RV and using the EAZ-Lift weight distribution hitch with the round bars. The round bars flex more than others so when you enter a steep incline like a gas station the bars take the brunt of the stress rather than your hitch and frame.

I'm also having CanAm add the hitch reinforcement from the receiver down to the points under the vehicle creating four points to contact. That eliminates any chance of weakening the unibody at the point where the hitch bolts in. $400 Canadian.

[Timofeevich]

Originally Posted by barts

I would follow VW's recommendations here.

From what I read on the Toureg fora, a weight distributing hitch is not recommended with the TDI.

- Bart

Correct, that's what the VW dealers in Europe say :
- no weight distributing hitch
- maximum weight of trailer to be 7716lb (3500kg)
- maximum hitch weight not to exceed 308lb (140kg)
- mechanical brakes with a handbrake to be installed (like one on Airstream 684 model that is being sold in Europe).

In order to couple T'reg (air suspension equipped) with 25FB I'm going to do the following :

1. Install the mechanical brakes, similar to one on A/S 684
2. Not to use any weight distribution hitch
3. Install a towing hitch under the rear bumper of the trailer
4. Attach the Thule Cargo Box (like 900 Thule BackUp) and/or Bike Rack to the hitch at the rear bumper of the trailer
5. Use scales prior to every towing to monitor the actual hitch weight
6. Keep the hitch weight within 308lb (140kg), which is 4.23% of the loaded weight of the trailer 7300lb (3311kg), by moving the cargo into the very end inside the trailer and keep the heaviest stuff outside the trailer in the Thule BackUp cargo Box. Intention is to always keep the Hitch Weight at 308lb (140kg).

Do you think above set up would work safely for towing in Europe ?

[xrvr]

You might be better off making the front lighter rather than the rear heavier. Mechanical brakes? are they legal here? Do you mean surge brakes? Just asking. jim

[Road Ruler]

Someone should give the Europeon Auto makers a "how to" lesson on setting up TV's for towing and how to publish a usefull operators manual. What were/are they thinking??

Note***... We are aware WDH's are in most cases not used on the other side of the pond and one would guess they don't know much about them and have little experience working with the hardware.

[Timofeevich]

Originally Posted by zigzagguzzi

You might be better off making the front lighter rather than the rear heavier. Mechanical brakes? are they legal here? Do you mean surge brakes? Just asking. jim

OVERRIDE OR OVERRUN BRAKE COUPLINGS

On trailers between 750 kg and 2000 kg total laden mass, braking systems that use an override principal are acceptable, as long as they provide adequate braking for the trailer and tow vehicle combination.
The principal of this type of coupling is a sliding shaft attached to the tow ball housing of the coupling, and as the tow vehicle slows down the force of deceleration is passed through the coupling shaft and pushed either on a mechanical linkage (for mechanical brakes) or acts on a linkage connected to a hydraulic cylinder providing hydraulic pressure to a braking system (hydraulic brakes) .
This type of coupling is efficient if the ball load is not excessive and when load levelling devices are not used, as these devices impede the smooth operation of the coupling, hindering the brake performance.

[mojo]

What the ....? We're obviously no longer in Odessa, TX. Don't know nuttin' about European trailer hookups or even European version of the Touareg, except that the stock hitch weight is 770lbs.

You're on your own here. Roger, out.

[mefly2]

Originally Posted by Timofeevich

Correct, that's what the VW dealers in Europe say :

Do you think above set up would work safely for towing in Europe ?

Consider as well - the mass of your TV vs the mass of the AS ... especially when braking on a mountain pass ... your investment, safety, and lives ... it appears that you are trying to do something that the engineers could not accomplish in the TV design. mojo reminded you above of the 770+ lb hitch weight ...

[Westfalia]

This thread is a joke, right? Tim, you are WAY over thinking this and your thinking is WRONG. The tongue weight, as MOJO said, is 770 lbs. No other european rules apply. The European hitch is COMPLETELY different than the one installed on a North American Touareg. As such, European trailers are built completely differently there to account for the lesser tongue weight. Reducing tongue weight in the manner you are thinking will be DEADLY to you and possibly others around.

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by Westfalia

This thread is a joke, right? Tim, you are WAY over thinking this and your thinking is WRONG. The tongue weight, as MOJO said, is 770 lbs. No other european rules apply. The European hitch is COMPLETELY different than the one installed on a North American Touareg. As such, European trailers are built completely differently there to account for the lesser tongue weight. Reducing tongue weight in the manner you are thinking will be DEADLY to you and possibly others around.

Not overthinking it, but focussed on "solution" that will make things worse, as just above. Weighting the stern of the trailer versus the bow is dead wrong dangerous. A rack on the back of any trailer is a bad idea (no matter how often you see it done), especially so on an A/S.

Some clarity needed: when in Europe, use their spec TV & TT's. Over here I'd just go to (or pay a consult with plans from) CAN AM RV.

[newroswell]

Originally Posted by Timofeevich

2. Not to use any weight distribution hitch
6. Keep the hitch weight within 308lb (140kg), which is 4.23% of the loaded weight of the trailer 7300lb (3311kg), by moving the cargo into the very end inside the trailer and keep the heaviest stuff outside the trailer in the Thule BackUp cargo Box. Intention is to always keep the Hitch Weight at 308lb (140kg).

Do you think above set up would work safely for towing in Europe ?

We had a 2007 25FB CCD. With water in the tank, beer in the fridge, propane tanks full, that muther was over 1000lbs on the hitch without weight distribution bars.

Since the axles are at least 65% back from the front, you'll need a lot of weight on and under that dinette in the back. Better get a ProPride hitch. No way you're keeping that in one lane with 4% on the tongue.