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Old 02-04-2014, 09:47 PM   #15
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Yes, the Timbren's are working so good, I think air shocks will be my next addition. And if I like them, air bag overloads should top it off.
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Old 02-04-2014, 10:44 PM   #16
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Like everything, the technological changes (improvements) in the cars and trucks we drive today make them easier to drive and maneuver than those in the 1960's and 1970's. I believe that is why they were and are referred to as BOATS. Because they handled like a boat. Steering and suspension were sloppy at best when compared to today's cars and trucks.
The 44 year old tests of what makes a TV handle in a specific way are OUTDATED.
I find the use of air bags on my TV to be a huge plus when it comes to towing my coach.
While my 26' Argosy is lighter than the modern A$'s of comparable length. It tows effortlessly behind my '08 Tundra 5.7ltr V8. I use the Andersen hitch and could not be happier.
As I understand it, the 2014 Dodge pickups don't even have springs. It is air suspension on all 4 corners. And I am reasonably sure they were designed to haul and tow things.
I tend to lean toward the advice of the engineers that design the TV as compared to that of trailer builders when it comes to equipping the TV for towing or hauling anything.
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Old 02-04-2014, 11:04 PM   #17
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Can you guys give me a little more info on the actual Timbren System / Springs you're using? There seems to be fundamentally different types of overload springs. I was thinking it was going to be a "sprung" piece of steel, parallel to the leaf springs . . . however I'm finding other types as well.

Thanks for your help. MarkR

edit: the "sprung" steel version I found was actually by "Super Springs". Is there a reason to pick one or the other system?
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Old 02-04-2014, 11:15 PM   #18
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We use Firestone RideRites; given that our pickup weight can vary by several hundred pounds, this lets up keep the pickup adjusted perfectly for towning, even if we're carrying an extra 500 lbs of water.

These are air bags that act directly on the axles and are bolted to the truck frame; I got ours from e-trailer.com.

I hook up the trailer in a level spot and adjust air pressure in the air bags to get the flaps about 2" off the ground, regardless of the weight in the truck.

We don't use a WD hitch (20' truck, light trailer), but if I did, I'd level the truck w/ the air bags w/o the trailer attached and then use the standard load on the bars, whatever I'd worked out during previous experiments.

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Old 02-05-2014, 05:11 AM   #19
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Can you guys give me a little more info on the actual Timbren System / Springs you're using? There seems to be fundamentally different types of overload springs. I was thinking it was going to be a "sprung" piece of steel, parallel to the leaf springs . . . however I'm finding other types as well.

Thanks for your help. MarkR

edit: the "sprung" steel version I found was actually by "Super Springs". Is there a reason to pick one or the other system?
Timbren, (the AEON spring) is a hollow rubber convolute that, properly-installed, only comes into play when the vehicle is heavily loaded. That there should be a gap between the Aeon spring and vehicle spring otherwise.

The Super Spring offering is a foamed piece (as it looks) and works in a similar manner. (They've another offering which appears as a steel lleaf.)

Both are stopgaps. A leaf spring carries its load across two mounting points on the frame, and these overloads (air bags, air shocks, and the two above) work from a single point, Not the same set of forces, or, rather, a change in vehicle handling is to be expected and not only with WD applied whenanother force point (so to speak) is added.

The factory suspension and steering on a pickup is meant to work well with a variety of loadings. Out near to a point where the truck is heavily loaded. Solo. One would expect drivers to exercise a great deal more caution at the near max load end of things.

A different set of leafs could be made for a truck that is loaded most of the time. Where the "adjusted empty weight" is far higher than the completely empty truck. This would be a better solution from the standpoint of vehicle handling at speed. And allow the WDH to work as designed.

Gimmicks should be avoided.

.
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Old 02-05-2014, 07:14 PM   #20
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I installed them - they replace the factory bump stop - to me they just keep the sag out of the rear end when I'm hitched up to my AS19 and I don't use a WD setup yet.

And I haven't wrecked or been out of control on the highway, so if I add a WD hitch set up maybe the timbrens won't even touch the axle
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Old 02-05-2014, 10:28 PM   #21
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so if I add a WD hitch set up maybe the timbrens won't even touch the axle

We set up a WDH, properly, on a weighbridge using static measurements. This is a representation for dynamic forces. What is a few hundred pounds at rest can be a few thousand pounds under adverse conditions. Controlling the action of the WD "springs" is the suspension of the two vehicles. Interfering with that set of actions (shortened in time/distance, and a very strong reactive force at one point) upsets the engineered approach to hauling a trailer around that has a high tongue weight (which is needed for towed vehicle stability, good traiiling action).

Andy/Inland RV was the field man for insurance data collection on A/S accidents. A data set that is/was without variables to be seen for many other vehicle insurance purposes. A WD hitch, yes, but crutches, for vehicle sag, no.

Let the WDH do it's job. Set it up properly. IF new springs are needed for the TV, then investigate that. They are considerably more expensive than these gimmicks (yes, I'll be using the AEON spring on the Steer Axle of my diesel truck as bumpstop replacement), but my loaded to GVWR truck may need to have a new set of rear leafs to reflect the shorter range of Drive Axle weight from solo to towing due to my higher-than-stock "adjusted empty weight).

Pickup trucks, like other high CG vehicles have a tendency to be stable until they are not. In a time frame that is so short as to be nearly meaningless. Over we go, in less time than to say it.

Set up the articulated rig. Play with TV tire pressures within prescribed range. Get better shock absorbers (such as KONI FSD), but avoid cheap "fixes" that can cause serious problems while "fixing" non-serious ones.

.
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Old 02-05-2014, 11:44 PM   #22
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There's lots of allegations and innuendo here, but air suspension assists make perfect sense if the load in the tow vehicle is variable.

WD hitches use spring bars to apply a torque between the trailer and the tv. Because of the way the spring bars are adjusted, the ride height of the tv will have a large effect on the amount of force placed on the trailer tongue. It makes no sense to try and use the WD hitch to lift the extra weight in the TV. Air assists work like a charm to allow the adjustment of the ride height of the TV to a consistent value before hitching up the trailer.

- Bart
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Old 02-06-2014, 07:29 AM   #23
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I imstalled air helpers on our Suburban, and had excellent results, but towing and empty. It all seems to depend on whether people use things like overload springs as a tool, rather than a replacement for common sense. Like it or not, there have been many advancements in suspension and towing technology over the last couple of decades.
You can either use the new tools provided you, or remain stubbornly clinging to the past.
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Old 02-06-2014, 07:40 AM   #24
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Where the forces are placed is what is in question. A true air ride suspension is one thing, and a cobbled-together collection (not a true system) is another.
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Old 02-06-2014, 08:47 AM   #25
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Yes, the Timbren's are working so good, I think air shocks will be my next addition. And if I like them, air bag overloads should top it off.
To each his own, but scales tell it like it is.

Scales are proof, not opinions.

Andy
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Old 02-06-2014, 10:46 AM   #26
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I know this will probably sound like I think I know it all about towing and trailers, but the fact is I like most everyone else, am always learning new things.

However, I refuse to let an insurance study conducted 40+ years ago, by people with little hands-on towing experience, on accidents that happened with the equipment of the day, influence my decisions about my rig set up, when I in fact, have that many years of hands-on experience with ever improving trailer, hitch, tow vehicle suspension, and tire technologies.

One thing I most certainly have learned in my years on this planet is, to learn new things, you must try new things.
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Old 02-06-2014, 12:42 PM   #27
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I know this will probably sound like I think I know it all about towing and trailers, but the fact is I like most everyone else, am always learning new things.

However, I refuse to let an insurance study conducted 40+ years ago, by people with little hands-on towing experience, on accidents that happened with the equipment of the day, influence my decisions about my rig set up, when I in fact, have that many years of hands-on experience with ever improving trailer, hitch, tow vehicle suspension, and tire technologies.

One thing I most certainly have learned in my years on this planet is, to learn new things, you must try new things.
Steve.

I averaged over 3,000 (three thousands) miles a month, towing a 31 foot Airstream, for a period of 4 years.

Visiting and training dealers all over the US, required lots of traveling.

That in itself, gave many miles of hands on experience.

Laws of Physics is Physics, that does not change over time.

Andy
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Old 02-06-2014, 12:50 PM   #28
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One thing I most certainly have learned in my years on this planet is, to learn new things, you must try new things.
Steve.

Yes indeed, life does go on, along with new ideas and technology.

But, basic Laws of Physics, don't change.

It appears that your trying new things, probably as a matter of curiosity, and personal hands on, and that is something that always becomes rewarding, sometimes in many nice ways, and sometimes not.

More Airstream owners, I feel, should try some of the things you have.

Personal experience, most of the time, can be very rewarding.

Thanks for your interest and contributions.

Andy
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