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Old 11-17-2010, 11:24 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by finalcutjoe View Post
Interesting.
I don't think snopes is the end all authority on all things internet viral, there's been enough cases where, for whatever reason, they've skewed the truth...

but, on second look, it does appear to be a lot more metal than you'd find on a smart...
the rims are definitely not FORD... look more to be Chrysler, what you might see on a Jeep Liberty
Do you have any examples and/or citations of snopes skewing the truth? I use Snopes a lot to calm my mom down when her spam-forwarding friends send her a note telling her that the next email she receives will cause her computer to explode and destroy her entire house or somesuch alarmist claptrap as that. I need to know what untrue information they may have disseminated.
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Old 11-17-2010, 12:51 PM   #30
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It was a Ford Escape, not a Smart car, and amazingly, no fatalities. See

snopes.com: Save the Planet with a Small Car
.
Having two smarts I get lots of questions about safety. I particularly like the "I would sure hate to be hit buy a semi in that thing." Well I don't think I would want to be hit by a semi if I was in your pick up/SUV either.

The smart did very well in the insurance institute safety tests but I personally avoid accidents no matter what I drive. BTW I do hold a Class A license and have four classic trucks in my back yard.

Cheers, Dan
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Old 11-17-2010, 03:39 PM   #31
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Okay now.. the comment made about "pious Prious owning friends" is too much! I drive a Prius (please notice the correct spelling Denis4x4) and I have nothing against gas guzzlers as long as they acknowledge the fact. Anyway, my AIRSTREAM is a 1995 Diesel Motorhome and gets 12mpg, will carry as many as I want it to and I feel great driving it!
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Old 11-17-2010, 04:41 PM   #32
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If you want to take this line of reasoning to its logical conclusions, one point on the way would be minivans, which nominally carry 7 and have mid-20s mpgs.

When you stop and consider that intercity buses are typically around 4 mpg and carry 40 people you can see that the fuel per person-mile isn't a whole lot better than minivans.
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Old 11-18-2010, 12:51 AM   #33
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My wife and I have owned a Prius since 2002; and I recently calculated that we have saved over $8,000 in fuel since we bought it, over the Camry v6 it replaced. Since then, most of the fuel we saved in our work commuting car has gone into the tow vehicle for our Bambi. Is that the work/life balance everyone keeps talking about?
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Old 11-18-2010, 01:25 AM   #34
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I'm curious. You said that you saved about $8000 in fuel costs since you purchased the car. How much more did you pay for the car than you would have paid for a comparable car powered by just gasoline? Furthermore, how much did taxpayers subsidize the developement and manufacturer of the Prius? Of course there are additional costs to the taxpayer such as the costs associated with rescue response when a Prius is involved in an accident.

I have nothing against Prius because they do reduce demand on oil, but I do get a bit perturbed when people start talking about how much they saved. Studies have shown that the Prius is far more expensive than a comparable gasoline powered car when the total cost to the owner and the taxpayer are considered.

A better argument for Prius owners would be to just concentrate on the number of gallons of gasoline that you did not use. This is an argument that I can appreciate -- you know -- supply and demand. If there is more fuel and less demand the price of the fuel goes down.
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Old 11-18-2010, 01:29 AM   #35
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It's not always about MPG.

Hi, the average yearly mileage for cars used to be about 12,000 miles, but now I believe it is more like 15,000 miles. I have a large vehicle [Lincoln Navigator] and my wife has a medium sized vehicle. [BMW X-3] Between both vehicles, we total less than 15,000 miles per year. Many people who have the smaller cars drive a lot farther. So if you drive your little car 30% farther and get 30% better fuel mileage, you saved nothing.
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Old 11-18-2010, 08:43 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phoenix View Post
My wife and I have owned a Prius since 2002; and I recently calculated that we have saved over $8,000 in fuel since we bought it, over the Camry v6 it replaced. Since then, most of the fuel we saved in our work commuting car has gone into the tow vehicle for our Bambi. Is that the work/life balance everyone keeps talking about?
All well and good, but what will be the cost of a battery pack replacement and what will happen to the old batteries? People are throwing out numbers all over the place as to battery replacement costs. Too, what is Toyota telling you about the disposal situation.
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Old 11-18-2010, 08:56 AM   #37
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Definitely not trying to start anything but why is diesel not getting the attention (I believe) it needs? I have a 2010 VW Jetta TDI that gets a consistent 43mpg in city commuting (can't ever get into 6th gear) and 47+ on the highway at 75 mph...a/c on, plenty of power (like a v6). I know the cost of diesel ranges 8-15% higher per gallon but I'm getting roughly 50% better mileage than my wife's Mini with a 1.6 gasser. Emission-wise, these new clean burning ones don't smoke a lick and unless i told you it was a diesel, you wouldn't know it. A guy a the pumps last week tried to get me to move to the other pump island saying i didn't want to put diesel in that car...I said i most certainly did, it ran much better on diesel. Perhaps lots of urban legends about like availability of fuel, smelly, smokey, glow plugs, hard to start when cold, rattle, slow, etc....none of which are remotely true anymore. I use a lot less fuel to go the same distance (can even take 4 people with me if needed) on 130 year old technology...hmmm?
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Old 11-18-2010, 10:30 AM   #38
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A better comparison would be the TDI and gasoline versions of the Jetta.

Volkswagan claims EPA mpgs of 33 for the gasoline and 42 for the diesel. Today's fuel prices at discount gas stations in my area are $2.75 for gasoline and $3.25 for diesel (exact prices from the Fleet Farm in Lakefille).

Over a practical vehicle lifetime of, say, 150,000 miles, a Jetta TDI would burn 3571 gallons of diesel with a fuel cost of $11,607. A gasoline Jetta would burn 4545 gallons of gasoline with a fuel cost of $12,500. The fuel cost savings for the diesel over its 150,000 mile lifetime is $892, but the purchase price is $2500 higher.
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Old 11-18-2010, 11:35 AM   #39
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Jammer,

Good point, but I was considering diesel vice gas-electric hybrid.

Not quite an apple to apple on gas v diesel as diesels routinely see 300k-500k before major repair/replacement (anecdotal stories of early failure aside). My daughter's 2.0 Jetta gas won't see 150k I'm certain. This largely drove my decision for this commuter vehicle because I will drive 100k in about 4 years. Figure in a replacement vehicle at diesel half-life and the diesel savings begin to emerge...and don't forget a TDI is a blast to drive!

This is not true if you only drive ~10k a year and/or tow less than 4k with a truck...I wouldn't recommend a diesel car or truck to anybody in that situation.

Marc
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Old 11-18-2010, 11:53 AM   #40
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Jammer, B25guy: It's also useful to compare real-world mileage. Typically gas vehicles rarely return their EPA-rated highway mileage in real-world usage, and diesel vehicles routinely EXCEED their ratings. Case in point, VW claims 42 highway for their TDI, but B25guy averages 43mpg in CITY driving.
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Old 11-18-2010, 01:16 PM   #41
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Thanks DKB, I didn't want to bring that up but you're absolutely correct. Easily verified by going to fuelly.com and observing the reported mileage on various vehicles/trucks...easy to draw a conclusion. Although LDT don't get the EPA ratings, my first generation CTD got 22-24mpg empty and 18-20mpg w/trailer. My 3rd generation CTD gets 20-21mpg empty, 17-19mpg towing...all hand calculated and on manual transmissions,short-shifting where possible (empty of course)...your mileage WILL vary and is largely due to driving style.

Diesels ARE more efficient with a gallon of fossil fuel (Fact - a gallon of diesel has higher BTU content than a gallon of gasoline), that's not in debate, but my original point is lost here...I'm truly confused why there's not more public attention being given to diesels as commuters/high mileage buggies when contrasted against price/performance/maintenance/longevity on alledgedly comparable gas-electric hybrids??
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Old 11-18-2010, 01:31 PM   #42
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Not quite an apple to apple on gas v diesel as diesels routinely see 300k-500k before major repair/replacement (anecdotal stories of early failure aside).
It is my experience that most cars, gasoline and diesel alike, are junked long before 300k for reasons that have nothing to with the engine. Those still on the road rarely meet the standards of those who bought them new.
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