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Old 08-13-2009, 09:12 PM   #99
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Originally Posted by rangebowdrie View Post
...
There is real physics involved, in regards to mass, and momentum.
The "low center of gravity", or "all disc brakes", or "wider suspension track", is'nt worth a ****, if something happens.
...
One Joule is 1kg (m^2/s^2) right?

3/4 ton truck at say 6000 lb towing an 8000lb trailer at
60 mph is about 6400kg at about 27 m/sec which is what, about 4,670,000 Joules?

Take a 4400 lb car at about 105mph and I think we're talking equivalent energy. Probably stopping distance too. (it's late and I'm tired and quite possibly have slipped a 3600 s/h where it didn't belong or spelled 1.609344 incorrectly somewhere, but these numbers seem about right).

So... What I think I'm hearing, is if you're not comfortable with the idea of taking a Caddy up to triple digits imperial, you maybe ought to rethink towing three tons of Alcoa's finest at triple digits metric?

[Edit: 2000kg is about 4400 pounds, roughly a Cadillac STS. One of the car sites quoted a stopping distance for the STS of 60-0 in 110 feet, 100mph-0 in 300 ft and change. ]
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Old 08-13-2009, 09:41 PM   #100
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I think we're at risk of comparing apples and oranges.

My '66 Dodge D200 has a curb weight of about 4,200 pounds before I start putting things in the back. The '67 Overlander had a dry weight of 4,100 pounds before I gutted it. Depending on the "load out," I figure my truck weight will about equal my trailer weight. While adding the Overlander doubles my mass, I'm also adding the additional braking capacity of two axles/four wheels. As one old-timer put it (and I paraphrase), "the only time my truck stopped worth a crap was towin'." Of course, he didn't have the front disk brakes that I will.

Personally, I'd rather tow a heavier trailer with a properly adjusted WD hitch than a lighter trailer "bare ball." I'd rather tow my Overlander with the Prodigy than the old brake controller we had for the horse trailer back in the 60s. I'd rather tow with a truck than a car.

Mass is the starting point of the equation, not the ending point. Sure, a heavier tow vehicle can offer some advantages... and it can offer some disadvantages. Safe towing is a combination of variables... and I will wager this. Many of the "gory" accidents reported can most certainly be traced back to driver error. Everyone who gets behind the wheel takes a risk. Just this spring, I was "t-boned" by an inattentive teen driver... though my experience allowed me to avoid killing her and her younger sister by seeing her mistake before she realized she had made one. As they say, the most important part of a vehicle is the nut behind the wheel.
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Old 08-13-2009, 09:46 PM   #101
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You know what I'am saying, many of the 3/4 ton rigs, are up in the 7,500>8,000 lb. range, or more when really loaded up. They do pretty good towing trailers of roughly equal weight. It's the 4>5,000 lb. TTs, that suffer when faced with the heavy units.
Yes, I could say that my ZO-6 Corvette has all the HP, and brakes it needs to handle a heavy trailer, but it does not have the weight on the ground to control a unit thats twice as heavy as it is, if the conditions go bad.

All I'am saying, is this; if you want to tow large, heavy trailers, then you should have a large, heavy tow vehicle.
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Old 08-14-2009, 09:02 AM   #102
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My 1/2-ton Nissan Titan has a curb weight of around 5400... which is roughly the same as your '57 Chrysler Imperial. I don't have any problem towing a 7,000 trailer.

The discussion on towing should being with the published manufacturer's "numbers," payload capacity, GVWR, GCWR, etc. I looked at the Chevy website. The Corvette ZR1 doesn't have a GVWR let alone GCWR. I think it's safe to say no one carries a Class IV hitch for the Corvette.

Under your theory, Range, logging trucks that haul 80,000 pounds of timber should have a 40-ton cab. All I'm saying is that towing is more than mass and physics... it's equipment, design, capacity and perhaps most importantly, the operator. I feel safer riding shotgun with a good logging truck driver coming down a steep, single-lane, dirt road fully loaded than I do driving around town with some of my daughters' friends.

We talk alot on the forums about equipment, but the single greatest factor in accidents--towing or not--is the driver. The heaviest tow vehicle in the world can't compensate for a unsafe driver.
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Old 08-14-2009, 09:18 AM   #103
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Yes, I could say that my ZO-6 Corvette has all the HP, and brakes it needs to handle a heavy trailer, but it does not have the weight on the ground to control a unit thats twice as heavy as it is, if the conditions go bad.
Yep. Has everyone seen this video? YouTube - car towing a trailer way too big

It might be fake but the scenario doesn't seem farfetched.
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Old 08-14-2009, 09:29 AM   #104
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Of course, you are absolutly right, the best safety mechanism is between the drivers ears.
And the blurb about a Corvette was just being silly, to press a point. Also I forgot to put the sentence about the Corvette in quotation marks, I don't have a zo-6, i wish. (was'nt able to edit)?
I know that lots of people have safe, enjoyable trips, with rigs that are outside my own comfort zone, but I'am not experienced with the "big" units. And it sure is true, that the new modern crop of 1/2 ton rigs are so much more capable than the older 3/4 trucks.
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Old 11-26-2009, 09:21 AM   #105
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My confession

Another tow vehicle & trailer tweaked by Andy T at Can-Am RV ...

11,000 towing miles this summer, including Colorado mountain passes.
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Old 05-03-2010, 08:36 AM   #106
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Update and new confessional: We bowed to the inevitable, (inevitable for us) and replaced our Caravan with a 4.7 L V8 Jeep Commander. With the heavier suspension, and greater power, I feel a lot more comfortable towing with it.

The Jeep came with a transmission cooler, a Tow/Haul button, wiring for the brake controller, and a hitch. Can-Am reinforced the receiver, and installed our brake controller, and I got a buddy of mine to raise the hitch to the right height. Towing the trailer to my house from storage, I was able to outdrag a pickup truck at a stop light. He didn't know we were racing, though.

Looking forward to long, mountainous trips this summer!
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Old 05-03-2010, 09:11 AM   #107
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Actually the Honda Ridgeline is a bit more capable, 250hp. Ford specs say max trailor weight is 3500#, the Ridge is 5000#.
Just yesterday I saw a Ridgeline accelerate aggressively from a stop light. That thing too took off like a scared rabbit.
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Old 05-03-2010, 09:12 AM   #108
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Update and new confessional: We bowed to the inevitable, (inevitable for us) and replaced our Caravan with a 4.7 L V8 Jeep Commander.
Any pics pageclot??
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Old 05-03-2010, 10:01 AM   #109
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Any pics pageclot??
Sort of:



You can see it through the front screen. The lumber in the foreground is the beginnings of a dinette, that replaced the gaucho. That's finished now! (thank goodness).
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Old 05-04-2010, 11:38 PM   #110
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We have an '05 Ridgeline and an '08 Tundra V6. The Ridge has 75k on it and the Tundra has about 12k, so I set up the Tundra for towing. The Ridge is used for pleasure/work, and the Tundra is used by my partner's crew for work stuff so it takes a beating, but is fine for towing. I much prefer the Ridgeline as a driving vehicle, handling, ride and build quality are far superior to the Tundra and it would've been a lot nicer towing, but the next vehicle will be a Pilot and will be set up for gowing. The Tundra does tow our Globetrotter a lot better than our old 4 liter Ranger pickup did...
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Old 05-05-2010, 08:25 AM   #111
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We have an '05 Ridgeline and an '08 Tundra V6. The Ridge has 75k on it and the Tundra has about 12k, so I set up the Tundra for towing. The Ridge is used for pleasure/work, and the Tundra is used by my partner's crew for work stuff so it takes a beating, but is fine for towing. I much prefer the Ridgeline as a driving vehicle, handling, ride and build quality are far superior to the Tundra and it would've been a lot nicer towing, but the next vehicle will be a Pilot and will be set up for gowing. The Tundra does tow our Globetrotter a lot better than our old 4 liter Ranger pickup did...
Both those trucks look like great vehicles. When we decided to replace the Caravan, we looked seriously at crew cab or mega cab pickup trucks, but decided that we needed that third row of seats, even if they are small occasional seats (like in the Commander). When we went to Long Island last year, it was with 6 people, and we needed the room to stretch out.
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Old 05-05-2010, 08:47 AM   #112
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I must say I have really been wondering about the tow vehicle issue. We are looking for a 19-22ft international and plan on towing it with a 03 Dakota 2wd Quad Cab. The truck has the 4.7L v8 (needs to be reprogrammed though) and weighs between 4200-4500lbs. Currently, it can tow 5100lbs and will tow 6100 if i put in a new rear end. I guess my question is, how close to your gvwr's do you guy's get with your vehicle? I have no doubt that I can drag a fully loaded 19' Bambi around, its the 22' I am worried about.....oh and that video is classic!!!
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