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Old 12-30-2013, 07:34 AM   #99
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A good point and it makes one wonder. To me it just makes so much sense to put an aerodynamic vehicle in front of the "state of the art" aerodynamic Airstream.
Considering the fact the proof is out there that it works, and works well, I'm surprised you haven't seen any cars towing Streams. It is fairly common in these parts.
I agree, it makes sense. The problem is no manufacturer offers any sedan/station wagon/minivan in North America that is designed/rated to tow heavy.

In Europe, sedans are regularly used as TV. However, the campers are shorter/narrower/lighter, have a low tongue weight, and are towed at a slower speed. More importantly, the sedans are rated higher than in the US. It may be the same nameplate, but under the skin they are different. They are also significantly more expensive.

In the US, the campers are longer/wider/heavier, have a high tongue weight, and are towed at a faster speed. And the sedans are rated much lower than in Europe. All these factors makes it impossible to tow with sedans in North America. And I don't believe after market modifications can bring up North American cars up to par with their European counterparts.

Car companies have no incentive to offer European spec'ed cars in North America. Say you were a car company, would you rather offer a Subaru that costs 60k and can tow 5000# OR a pickup that costs 40k and can tow 10000#?

I don't think sedans are inherently incapable of towing. My point is given the lower rating of sedans in North America and the bigger campers we use here, the combo does not work.

I guess, one option is to import both the Airstream/sedan from Europe! A 25 ft Airstream in England weighs 4400# and has a 330# tongue weight. I wish we had those here in the US.
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Old 12-30-2013, 07:46 AM   #100
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rostam... To sum up...... There are a number of us that have been, and are towing with cars.
What you are saying is that... "what we have been doing successfully for decades is not possible".
Enough already...... now back on track with the truck discussion.
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Old 12-30-2013, 08:19 AM   #101
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Excuse me, but it is the anti truck people who hijack these threads. The mods should pay closer attention. I know they can only do so much, but this is a common problem. Jim
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Old 12-30-2013, 08:35 AM   #102
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rostam... To sum up...... There are a number of us that have been, and are towing with cars.
What you are saying is that... "what we have been doing successfully for decades is not possible".
Enough already...... now back on track with the truck discussion.
To Sum up... I would love to see a Chrysler 300 that has been towing a 10,000# Airstream for decades. Unfortunately, non exists...... now back on track with the truck discussion.
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Old 12-30-2013, 09:09 AM   #103
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About the ideal truck, in my opinion that would be one that will easily tow the largest trailer you ever intend to have, over the steepest, highest mountain pass in the continent, pull 1.8G's on the slolom course, accelerate from 0 to 60mph in 3.2 seconds, all while riding like a luxury sedan and making 34mpg on regular gasoline.

When you find one like this, please let me know.

The truth of the matter, however, is the ideal truck will differ greatly depending on the owner/user's needs. As an example, a retired couple who either full-time, or travel extensively, will have greatly different needs than one that takes occasional weekend camping trips and drives the truck to work daily.

Additionally, optional equipment on a truck will vary greatly depending on the owners needs, such as we need a camper cover to be able to haul securely the things that we do, while others might want an open bed for frequent around the house hauling chores.

Sorry about the long post, but the fact of the matter is the ideal multi-use truck will be the one that best fits your needs.
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Old 12-30-2013, 09:13 AM   #104
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We bought a 1500 Silverado new in 04 and didn't own a TT of any kind but we did configure it for towing just in case. Now 4 TTs later we are ordering a new Silverado. We try to consider what we may do and in our lives it's more traveling. We pull a 30' Classic and a car trailer long distances so we opted for the diesel 3/4 ton since we will have it 10 years or more. Pick the brand you like, evaluate your long term plans and buy what you and your lady like best.

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Old 12-30-2013, 09:48 AM   #105
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"Experience" is moot. A non-starter. It goes to "fault" which is also a non-starter. Any comparison of articulated rigs comes down to specific scenarios. And any driver may on any day range terribly wide in nearing correct solutions. Risk minimization is about design which trumps variables.

". . My bet is that most current pickup trucks with still out handle most of the travel trailers being pulled.


We're on a forum featuring ARSTREAM travel trailers. Do we need to go into the differences between these and the leaf-sprung SOB's? The differences are profound where it matters.

Take most any pickup and research slalom speeds. Then, take a look at videos and other over at the CAN AM site to look what an A/S can do. A pickup is the worst choice for accident avoidance. And for braking. Given a particular TT these are what matter where hitch lash-up is optimized.

"Ratings" are about profit. Not what can be done. And have no force of law. Keep within tire/wheel and FA or RA specs otherwise. A 1,000-lb TW will, after proper WD, show around 750-lbs on the TV. Around 375-lbs per axle isn't going to be some terrible challenge.

And if one doesn't want a Charger/300, then there are minivans or other types with fully independent suspension which can do the job. There is a descending list, from ideal to barely capable.

A pickup is dead last. Maybe only the out-of-production FORD Excursion is worse (and I've found nothing so far). A pickup used as TV is the weak link in the chain where stability is sought. The choice of one is fraught with compromises that "experience" and "skill" will not overcome.

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Old 12-30-2013, 10:59 AM   #106
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I keep seeing the same Can Am truck haters club post over and over...Blah Blah Blah Blah Blah

This thread reads " the ideal multi-use truck" not car or minivan
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Old 12-30-2013, 11:12 AM   #107
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"Experience" is moot. A non-starter. It goes to "fault" which is also a non-starter. Any comparison of articulated rigs comes down to specific scenarios. And any driver may on any day range terribly wide in nearing correct solutions. Risk minimization is about design which trumps variables.

". . My bet is that most current pickup trucks with still out handle most of the travel trailers being pulled.


We're on a forum featuring ARSTREAM travel trailers. Do we need to go into the differences between these and the leaf-sprung SOB's? The differences are profound where it matters.

Take most any pickup and research slalom speeds. Then, take a look at videos and other over at the CAN AM site to look what an A/S can do. A pickup is the worst choice for accident avoidance. And for braking. Given a particular TT these are what matter where hitch lash-up is optimized.

"Ratings" are about profit. Not what can be done. And have no force of law. Keep within tire/wheel and FA or RA specs otherwise. A 1,000-lb TW will, after proper WD, show around 750-lbs on the TV. Around 375-lbs per axle isn't going to be some terrible challenge.

And if one doesn't want a Charger/300, then there are minivans or other types with fully independent suspension which can do the job. There is a descending list, from ideal to barely capable.

A pickup is dead last. Maybe only the out-of-production FORD Excursion is worse (and I've found nothing so far). A pickup used as TV is the weak link in the chain where stability is sought. The choice of one is fraught with compromises that "experience" and "skill" will not overcome.

.
Ok, I will leave it at this: we will have to agree to disagree. Because I disagree with almost every point you make on this particular subject.
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Old 12-30-2013, 11:17 AM   #108
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"Cars" are great if you don't mind the smell of gasoline from the generators and spare fuel tanks in the back seat or the lovely aroma of stale grease from the grill.

Since the suspension was designed for some specified number of pieces of luggage and 4,5 or 6 people depending on the vehicle in question, then fill the seats and add whatever fits in the trunk plus the hitch weight is okay?

Now add the boat to the roof along with some bicycles. Is it top heavy yet, has the sail area been increased to get more side push from winds or trucks? Where does all that stuff in the car get securely stored while unhitched? Oh, carry it in and out of the trailer multiple times a day.

Just wondering.

I can leave the heavy valuable items in the back of my pickup truck under the bed cap and remove them only when ended. I do not smell gasoline and grease from the grill in the cab of the truck.

But, that is my preference. All of us defines the tow mission and has to live with the results of those decisions.
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Old 12-30-2013, 12:36 PM   #109
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Mods, this thread has been hijacked! Jim
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Old 12-30-2013, 01:12 PM   #110
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Ok, to try to bring this back from being hijacked, I would submit to you all that the original concept of the thread, which is "one truck that can meet all conceivable multi-uses, is flawed. That is what I was trying to allude to in my earlier post about matching the truck to the job at hand, which is why we have a Frontier and a F350 Dually.
The tow vehicles requirements for a 16' Airstream seem to me to be somewhat different than what is needed to pull a 34' triple axle.
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Old 12-30-2013, 01:39 PM   #111
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The original poster says he plans on getting a 27 to 30' Airstream. Wouldn't have to be a Diesel, but because of the weight, I would go with a 3/4 ton, or at a minimum, a 1/2 ton with the max towing package along with the max payload package.

YMMV
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Old 12-30-2013, 03:13 PM   #112
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The most adaptable ideal truck would be something like the F-450 Supercrew dually diesel (Platinum model). It'll take the kids to soccer, pull a 22,000 lb fifth wheel, and everything else in between.
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