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Old 12-28-2013, 02:18 PM   #71
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The real simple fact is that there is no agreed upon standard anywhere that determines what a published tow rating actually means. The second one exists is the second I am prepared to take these values seriously.

As it currently stands, these values appear to be marketing driven, rather than engineering driven. For trucks, towing ability is frequently, and demonstratable, overstated. For cars and vans it is equally frequently, and demonstratable, understated.

Blindly believing these numbers does not guarantee a good towing experience.
I agree with you that for trucks the tow rating is over-stated. But disagree with you on that for cars it is under-stated. The argument I have heard for this is that car companies have a great profit margin on trucks, so they under-state the ratings of the cars to push the customer to trucks. The problem is Mercedes Benz, Audi, VW do NOT produce pickup trucks, yet rate their cars the same as GM/Ford/Chrysler.
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Old 12-28-2013, 02:56 PM   #72
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I think we might just have to agree to disagree on this subject - I am fairly certain people are getting bored with the repetition.

As far as I am concerned, it is demonstrable that the tow rating for cars and vans is often understated. How? By looking at the real world, where thousands of cars and vans safely and efficiently tow trailers that they aren't officially rated to tow. Like always, a proper setup is a necessity.

Until the day there'll be a proven, tested and agreed upon way to measure tow rating, that's the best we've got.

Why do car makers rate their cars low? Because that's the logical thing to do. Testing costs money and the market for tow vehicles is minuscule for cars. Additionally, as a manufacturer I have no control over the actual setup. Nothing is stopping anybody to hitch up a white box without WD or sway control, then blame the resulting accident on the manufacturer. If I'd be a car maker, I'd rate all my models zero and be done with it.

Anyway, peace and out.

Andy
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Old 12-28-2013, 03:32 PM   #73
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Porsche 911's drive train has can handle a max speed of 235 mph. It also has amazing handling, low center of gravity, high torque engine, low weight, etc. I think we all are in agreement here that 911 is not a tow vehicle.
Some folks believe the 911's are quite good TV's........
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Old 12-28-2013, 03:34 PM   #74
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I have a 2013 F150XLT with ecoboost and heavy duty tow pac, two wheel drive, but does have the locking rear end. It is the 4 door with 6 1/2 box. I am planning on towing A 30 ft Avion load weight of 8000lbs. Love the truck and mileage, it rides better than the wife's Subaru Tribeca. The local dealer did not have one equipped with the heavy duty tow pac, but was able to locate one. Do not let a dealer talk you into something less that he has on the lot. Read the sticker. gpscotty
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Old 12-28-2013, 03:58 PM   #75
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If you can wait a bit the new redesigned F-150 will be available in 4 to 6 months as a 2015 model. It is going to use a lot more aluminium to make the truck lighter. That might bump up it's ability to carry more and tow more. Usually a redesign in trucks means more of everything. More MPG, more towing, more hauling.

Good luck
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Old 12-28-2013, 05:50 PM   #76
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Old 12-28-2013, 06:03 PM   #77
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It's why Specialty Equipment Manufacturers exist by the thousands creating after market products designed to modify and/or improve vehicles for all types of uses including better handling, performance, braking, off-road use, and yes, even towing. It's why people on this forum are looking for better ways to adapt their vehicles to their situation, short of going out and buying a new $70K one-ton truck. There are hundreds of ways to modify vehicles and keep them safe. Car and truck manufacturers are concerned with building vehicles that are functional and affordable. If they were so right-on as far as quality and capability, I doubt we would have so many safety and mechanical problems and recalls.
Its fine if you go to Specialty Equipment Manufacturers to improve your vehicle. The question is how much improvement can you get? There are some on this forum who think a Chrysler 300, rated to tow 1000#, can tow a 10,000# Airstream, after the hitch is reinforced and a transmission cooler is added. I think it does not make sense to believe the tow rating of Chrysler 300 can be improved 10 fold that easily.

Also, the folks who modify their cars for offroading or racing do not off road or race in the highways we all use. People who modify their vehicle for towing do, so safety is a lot more important.
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Old 12-28-2013, 06:05 PM   #78
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An "ideal multi use truck" for what most people use trucks for would be a modernized version of an El Camino or Ranchero. But we have already seen what the buying public thought of that idea. Done right, you C300 fans could have the best of both worlds. So who's gonna be the first to take the plasma cutter to a Hemi powered 300C ???
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Old 12-28-2013, 08:01 PM   #79
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The more I thought about this, the less outlandish did the use a 911 as a TV idea appeared to me. The engine is more than capable, the body is strong and stiff.... I wondered.

So I hopped over to a bunch of UK trailer forums, where I found the 911 to be a very popular tow vehicle, with a plethora of hitches and wiring harnesses advertised. But what turned out to be the biggest surprise was that UKTow rates the 911 (depending on the model) at up to 3000lbs tow capacity. This is without a WD option and with no electric brakes available.

If I wouldn't have kids, that would be a great option to explore.
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Old 12-28-2013, 08:13 PM   #80
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European "caravans" are much smaller and lighter. Lots of them are single axle. They do not use WD hitches-
300# tongue weight on a 911? Hmmm.
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Old 12-28-2013, 08:13 PM   #81
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Thumbs up I'm no help....

......my multi-use truck is a single use 2006 Suburban 8.1 bought used.
I do drive it without the AS....1260mi this year alone.

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Old 12-28-2013, 09:29 PM   #82
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Some folks believe the 911's are quite good TV's........
That is a small Caravan, with a tongue weight of may be 150#. Yet, the Porsche looks overloaded.
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Old 12-29-2013, 08:45 AM   #83
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These kinds of safety issues come down more to driver awareness and skill than anything else.

But they don't. One cannot overcome the physics involved. Pay attention to statisticis as neither you nor I are exempt. The question is more why use a high risk vehicle that is also more expensive to operate every mile of ownership when one with a lower risk is available . . and is cheaper to run.

Will it last as long? Gee, thousands of us used sedans "not rated" for 200k miles + 10-years ownership once upon a time. Cross country and for months at a time. When roads were not nearly so good as today.

The faulty assumption is that a truck is the default choice for towing. No, the operative quality is the travel trailer design. Start at the top when choosing a TV . . a pickup is some ways down any reasonable list. Leave the emotions out. If one wants to compromise towing stability, so be it. But be sure to report back on the total braking distance and accident avoidance envelope reductions. They matter.

Never driven a well-sorted combination? That's the second question. Most have not, and never will is the shame of it. No pickup makes that list.

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Old 12-29-2013, 09:21 AM   #84
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The question is more why use a high risk vehicle that is also more expensive to operate every mile of ownership when one with a lower risk is available . . and is cheaper to run.
The low risk sedans that you are promoting are not designed/rated to tow a heavy Airstream. The majority of people believe the manufacturer when it comes to ratings -- I am yet to see a single sedan towing an Airstream, where I have seen many many many trucks/SUVS/Vans.
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