the ideal multi-use truck?

[m.hony]

I haven't ridden in the back seat of any car that is as roomy as the back seat of a crew can pickup or SUV.
The process of getting out of a low to the ground car is too much for me. I would have a pickup, SUV, or van even if I didn't tow a trailer.

[andreasduess]

Originally Posted by zigzagguzzi

Next time I tow my trailer with my one ton truck with the scooters and camping supplies in the bed, I bet I will not care if your tow vehicle will go that fast. How fast will it go with 2500 pounds in the rear seat and trunk? You cannot make a car into a truck or a truck into a car! Jim

I didn't say that a car would be a suitable TV for everybody.

The point I was trying to make was that it should not be dismissed as such outright, and especially not based on numbers that appear, at least at this moment in time, inherently flawed.

[xrvr]

Flawed? Your opinion. Jim

[gmw photos]

Perfect multi use truck?

1. light duty use, small trailer pulling, and daily driver = Frontier crew cab, V6 gas, six speed manual, 4WD. Sticker price was under $25K new.

2. heavy duty use, large trailer capable = F350 dually PS, auto trans, 4WD. Sticker price was just over $50K new

That's what works for us, so I reckon one really needs to be practical in thinking what the needs are, and match accordingly. The Ford has twice the capabilities, but cost twice as much, and uses approx twice the fuel in dollars.

I think this whole thing about how all us pickup drivers are gonna roll it the first time we swerve to avoid an obstacle is a red herring in this argument. These kinds of safety issues come down more to driver awareness and skill than anything else.
I can tell you when I set up my current camper with my Frontier, I went out and did some swerve testing to ensure the swaypro hitch works as advertised ( it does ), I can tell you that I can do some pretty severe swerves with this "poor handling" combo of Frontier + Funfinder ( boxy white white camper with crude leaf spring suspension ). About all I did that was bad in these tests was to "open all the drawers in galley, and otherwise rearrange some things inside the trailer".

That's my thoughts on it. The only thing that I would add to the "ideal" part of what I have, is that I would love to have the 3.0L V6 turbo diesel in the Frontier, that they sell in other markets. 400 plus ft-lbs of torque would be fun in this truck. That is by most accounts a nice motor. Designed by Renault, a company with a lot of experience in design/build of turbo diesels.

[Road Ruler]

Originally Posted by rostam

FYI, Chrysler 300 is rated to tow 1000#. A 31 ft Airstream Classic has a GVWR of 10,000#.

Hummmmm

[andreasduess]

Originally Posted by zigzagguzzi

Flawed? Your opinion. Jim

Not really. Most anyone you talk to in the vehicle industry agrees.

[dkottum]

Pretty clear in these endless, argumentative, and useless threads one man's truck is not another man's truck.

And some would rather pull their Airstream with a car, van, or SUV and do their hauling chores at home with a utility trailer. But a basic capable new truck came out $15,000 less than the SUV. That buys a lot of travel experiences, so we have a basic capable truck, a nice Airstream and use it six months year.

[rostam]

Originally Posted by andreasduess

Unless one would be involved in the design of the vehicle, or had the skills to deduct from observation, we have no way of knowing what stresses this vehicle can or cannot handle in the real world. The low tow rating means nothing, if not backed up by data.

What we do know is that the vehicle can handle a top speed of 155mph, a speed that puts substantial stresses on engine, drive train and body.

The manufacturer has designed, developed, tested, researched their vehicle and is the best to know what stresses the vehicle can or cannot handle. That is why they publish ratings for the vehicle. Why some people on this forum are arguing against this simple fact is beyond me.

Porsche 911's drive train has can handle a max speed of 235 mph. It also has amazing handling, low center of gravity, high torque engine, low weight, etc. I think we all are in agreement here that 911 is not a tow vehicle.

[andreasduess]

The real simple fact is that there is no agreed upon standard anywhere that determines what a published tow rating actually means. The second one exists is the second I am prepared to take these values seriously.

As it currently stands, these values appear to be marketing driven, rather than engineering driven. For trucks, towing ability is frequently, and demonstratable, overstated. For cars and vans it is equally frequently, and demonstratable, understated.

Blindly believing these numbers does not guarantee a good towing experience.

[mojo]

Originally Posted by rostam

The manufacturer has designed, developed, tested, researched their vehicle and is the best to know what stresses the vehicle can or cannot handle. That is why they publish ratings for the vehicle. Why some people on this forum are arguing against this simple fact is beyond me.

It's why Specialty Equipment Manufacturers exist by the thousands creating after market products designed to modify and/or improve vehicles for all types of uses including better handling, performance, braking, off-road use, and yes, even towing. It's why people on this forum are looking for better ways to adapt their vehicles to their situation, short of going out and buying a new $70K one-ton truck. There are hundreds of ways to modify vehicles and keep them safe. Car and truck manufacturers are concerned with building vehicles that are functional and affordable. If they were so right-on as far as quality and capability, I doubt we would have so many safety and mechanical problems and recalls.

[rostam]

Originally Posted by andreasduess

The real simple fact is that there is no agreed upon standard anywhere that determines what a published tow rating actually means. The second one exists is the second I am prepared to take these values seriously.

As it currently stands, these values appear to be marketing driven, rather than engineering driven. For trucks, towing ability is frequently, and demonstratable, overstated. For cars and vans it is equally frequently, and demonstratable, understated.

Blindly believing these numbers does not guarantee a good towing experience.

I agree with you that for trucks the tow rating is over-stated. But disagree with you on that for cars it is under-stated. The argument I have heard for this is that car companies have a great profit margin on trucks, so they under-state the ratings of the cars to push the customer to trucks. The problem is Mercedes Benz, Audi, VW do NOT produce pickup trucks, yet rate their cars the same as GM/Ford/Chrysler.

[andreasduess]

I think we might just have to agree to disagree on this subject - I am fairly certain people are getting bored with the repetition.

As far as I am concerned, it is demonstrable that the tow rating for cars and vans is often understated. How? By looking at the real world, where thousands of cars and vans safely and efficiently tow trailers that they aren't officially rated to tow. Like always, a proper setup is a necessity.

Until the day there'll be a proven, tested and agreed upon way to measure tow rating, that's the best we've got.

Why do car makers rate their cars low? Because that's the logical thing to do. Testing costs money and the market for tow vehicles is minuscule for cars. Additionally, as a manufacturer I have no control over the actual setup. Nothing is stopping anybody to hitch up a white box without WD or sway control, then blame the resulting accident on the manufacturer. If I'd be a car maker, I'd rate all my models zero and be done with it.

Anyway, peace and out.

Andy

[Road Ruler]

Originally Posted by rostam

Porsche 911's drive train has can handle a max speed of 235 mph. It also has amazing handling, low center of gravity, high torque engine, low weight, etc. I think we all are in agreement here that 911 is not a tow vehicle.

Some folks believe the 911's are quite good TV's........

[gpscotty]

I have a 2013 F150XLT with ecoboost and heavy duty tow pac, two wheel drive, but does have the locking rear end. It is the 4 door with 6 1/2 box. I am planning on towing A 30 ft Avion load weight of 8000lbs. Love the truck and mileage, it rides better than the wife's Subaru Tribeca. The local dealer did not have one equipped with the heavy duty tow pac, but was able to locate one. Do not let a dealer talk you into something less that he has on the lot. Read the sticker. gpscotty

[tuffr2]

If you can wait a bit the new redesigned F-150 will be available in 4 to 6 months as a 2015 model. It is going to use a lot more aluminium to make the truck lighter. That might bump up it's ability to carry more and tow more. Usually a redesign in trucks means more of everything. More MPG, more towing, more hauling.

Good luck

[m.hony]

The ideal truck is the one already sitting in the carport paid for!

[rostam]

Originally Posted by mojo

It's why Specialty Equipment Manufacturers exist by the thousands creating after market products designed to modify and/or improve vehicles for all types of uses including better handling, performance, braking, off-road use, and yes, even towing. It's why people on this forum are looking for better ways to adapt their vehicles to their situation, short of going out and buying a new $70K one-ton truck. There are hundreds of ways to modify vehicles and keep them safe. Car and truck manufacturers are concerned with building vehicles that are functional and affordable. If they were so right-on as far as quality and capability, I doubt we would have so many safety and mechanical problems and recalls.

Its fine if you go to Specialty Equipment Manufacturers to improve your vehicle. The question is how much improvement can you get? There are some on this forum who think a Chrysler 300, rated to tow 1000#, can tow a 10,000# Airstream, after the hitch is reinforced and a transmission cooler is added. I think it does not make sense to believe the tow rating of Chrysler 300 can be improved 10 fold that easily.

Also, the folks who modify their cars for offroading or racing do not off road or race in the highways we all use. People who modify their vehicle for towing do, so safety is a lot more important.

[gmw photos]

An "ideal multi use truck" for what most people use trucks for would be a modernized version of an El Camino or Ranchero. But we have already seen what the buying public thought of that idea. Done right, you C300 fans could have the best of both worlds. So who's gonna be the first to take the plasma cutter to a Hemi powered 300C ???

[andreasduess]

The more I thought about this, the less outlandish did the use a 911 as a TV idea appeared to me. The engine is more than capable, the body is strong and stiff.... I wondered.

So I hopped over to a bunch of UK trailer forums, where I found the 911 to be a very popular tow vehicle, with a plethora of hitches and wiring harnesses advertised. But what turned out to be the biggest surprise was that UKTow rates the 911 (depending on the model) at up to 3000lbs tow capacity. This is without a WD option and with no electric brakes available.

If I wouldn't have kids, that would be a great option to explore.

[m.hony]

European "caravans" are much smaller and lighter. Lots of them are single axle. They do not use WD hitches-
300# tongue weight on a 911? Hmmm.