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Old 09-05-2012, 07:56 AM   #29
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well sorta

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Originally Posted by ROBERTSUNRUS View Post
Hi, I have read what they said. Now put that motor on a dyno and measure the torque from a shaft that isn't turning. Zero! One of the those articles that I read basically agrees with me in that the torque starts from zero.
That is because a dyno first measures power and then calculates the torque from the work done. Power is torque multiplied by the rotational speed of the motor. So power is indeed zero at zero rpm's. Torque is not zero - it is just that a dyno cannot measure it until things get spinning.

Torque is a force applied on a lever or shaft radius. Think of tugging on a lug wrench that will not budge. You are sweating, cursing, and the force is still being applied.... but your wife is asking you why you don't have the tire off yet.

Torque at zero rpm is what gets an entire freight train moving from a standstill. If the diesel had to do it without the benefit of the electric generator/motor, it would need a gi'normus (a technical term) clutch or torque converter. Steam engines can also produce max torque at zero rpm.

(My dad replaced steam engines with diesel-electrics back in the day. This is the stuff he 'splained to me over Cheerios )

So in theory, a Hybrid could be the perfect towing power plant with max torque to get the rig moving. Problem is that car companies build them for "green consumer" hype, not for their mechanical advantages.
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Old 09-05-2012, 08:14 AM   #30
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I had a mercedes 300sd a while ago and put 498,000 on it before i sold it. I still see it driving around from time to time. Loved the benz diesel!
I would love to see more options in a larger diesel SUV. I find it hard to feel safe with my knees crammed into the dashboard on all of these mid sized diesel suv's.
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Old 09-05-2012, 08:25 AM   #31
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I had a mercedes 300sd a while ago and put 498,000 on it before i sold it. I still see it driving around from time to time. Loved the benz diesel!
I would love to see more options in a larger diesel SUV. I find it hard to feel safe with my knees crammed into the dashboard on all of these mid sized diesel suv's.
We still have an '87 300D. The odometer quit at around 300K miles 10 years ago!!

Nothing like the smell and sound of that diesel cranking up in the morning
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Old 09-05-2012, 08:26 AM   #32
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(My dad replaced steam engines with diesel-electrics back in the day. This is the stuff he 'splained to me over Cheerios )
Cool!
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Old 09-05-2012, 08:31 AM   #33
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We still have an '87 300D. The odometer quit at around 300K miles 10 years ago!!

Nothing like the smell and sound of that diesel cranking up in the morning
Absolutely....i can pick one out of a crowd just by the sound of the engine. I may have to get another one someday!
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Old 09-05-2012, 10:12 AM   #34
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It's possible that the Diesel Grand Cherokee will turn out to be a good tow vehicle. The current rumor is that it will become available in January of 2013 as a 2014 model, with a 3.0 liter V6 turbodiesel and an 8 speed transmission. Current 2012 models have 7,500 pound towing capacity with 750 pounds of tongue weight, explicitly support weight distribution, and have a self leveling suspension.

They are saying 33 MPG Highway - I had a 2000 Grand Cherokee and got more like 18. That's pretty amazing.

I liked my 2000 grand, but it had annoying reliability / quality problems - lots of mechanical parts like door lock actuators wearing out - and eventually it burned up a crankshaft bearing. We moved up to the Mercedes because we wanted a bigger truck with three rows of seats for the kids.

Main complaint about our Mercedes GL as a tow vehicle is that the Mercedes dealers don't seem to know much about towing, and the factory tongue weight without hitch reinforcement is just 600 pounds.
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Old 09-05-2012, 11:36 AM   #35
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Hi ddruker,

I have owned Toyota's for 25 years and was set on buying a Toyota Sequoia as our tow vehicle. But after seeing yours and Rluhr's Mercedes pulling Airstreams, I began to get quite curious about the idea of owning a diesel SUV as our tow vehicle (mainly due to the fuel cost advantage). So, I decided to do a 5 year fuel and normal service cost comparison between the GL 350 Blue TEC and the Toyota Sequoia 5.7 Liter 4x4.

It was surprising to discover that in this 5 year cost analysis, the Mercedes GL cost less! It's important to note that I didn't account for the purchase price difference in the vehicles. I only accounted for fuel and normally scheduled service costs. The difference was $6500 at the 5 year mark. Meaning it cost $6500 more in fuel and normally scheduled service costs to own a Toyota Sequoia vs. a Mercedes GL.

It will be interesting to see how the new Jeep Cherokee computes :-)
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Old 09-05-2012, 12:07 PM   #36
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Main complaint about our Mercedes GL as a tow vehicle is that the Mercedes dealers don't seem to know much about towing, and the factory tongue weight without hitch reinforcement is just 600 pounds.
I believe it is because of the lack of use and info on WDH's in Europe. WD is a North American thing.
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Old 09-05-2012, 06:51 PM   #37
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I have a new 2012 X5 diesel, BMW hitch. Right on it the hitch weight limit is 600lbs and tow limit is 6000lbs.
Thanks for the info. I'm planning to test drive a BMW X5 ext week.
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Old 09-05-2012, 08:35 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ddruker
Our tow vehicle is a 2011 Mercedes GL 350. It is a fantastic tow vehicle - and the turbo-diesel motor is less expensive than either gasoline option. We have never lacked for power or stability, and we average roughly 18 MPG when towing, and 25 MPG when not, which I think is pretty awesome for a large 3-row SUV.

The picture below is just a couple of days before negotiating the Teton pass, which we had no problem with.

Mercedes sells a tiny number of the diesels as compared to the gasoline versions of these - I think people still associate diesel with rattly, smelly motors. The new clean diesels are fantastic - no smell, no noise, tons of torque, superior fuel economy. While diesel fuel typically costs between 5 and 10% more than unleaded regular here in California, fuel economy is more than 25% better.
DDrucker....what hitch are you using!? It looked like you did not have any type of equalizer hitch?
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Old 09-05-2012, 08:47 PM   #39
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Been There, Doing That

Quote:
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I have a new 2012 X5 diesel, BMW hitch. Right on it the hitch weight limit is 600lbs and tow limit is 6000lbs.
Ditto on my 2001 BMW X5 4.4i factory hitch rating; BUT have pulled my 2002 31' ASCL 8,300# GVWR with a 720# tongue unloaded weight with a loaded weight of 8,900+# and a tongue weight of over 1,000# without a problem using a Hensley (see avatar)
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Old 09-06-2012, 12:04 AM   #40
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DDrucker....what hitch are you using!? It looked like you did not have any type of equalizer hitch?
I was wondering the same thing?...

Today I learned that most if not all the German SUV's have "air ride suspension" in the back which prohibit the use of weight distributing bars. The main reason is because these WD bars go into the shank and create issues with the air ride suspension thus voiding any type of factory warranty on the tow vehicle.

So, I'm wondering how Ddruker got around this?
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Old 09-06-2012, 12:14 AM   #41
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I was wondering the same thing?...

Today I learned that most if not all the German SUV's have "air ride suspension" in the back which prohibit the use of weight distributing bars. The main reason is because these WD bars go into the shank and create issues with the air ride suspension thus voiding any type of factory warranty on the tow vehicle.

So, I'm wondering how Ddruker got around this?
Hi, I'm not exactly sure what you are saying, but My Lincoln has rear air suspension and a factory tow package. So it must be OK to tow with rear air suspension. Also my owner's manual explains how to set-up a WD hitch with my air suspension.
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Old 09-06-2012, 12:31 AM   #42
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Quote:
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Hi, I'm not exactly sure what you are saying, but My Lincoln has rear air suspension and a factory tow package. So it must be OK to tow with rear air suspension. Also my owner's manual explains how to set-up a WD hitch with my air suspension.
RobertSunrus,

I just found a post for you to read that explains the "issue" I was trying to explain but apparently didn't do a good job...sorry about that! This post also explains how "idroba" (the OP) got around the "issue":
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f464...p-89954-2.html

Hope this helps!
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