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Foiled Again · 03-05-2005, 11:26 AM

Grrrh! Used Car salesmen. OK, I've got a 22 ft CCD and I've pretty well decided I want to tow it with a Suburban. I know I need a 4.1 rear end as well as extra cooling on the brake and transmission fluids and extendable towing mirrors. I'm sure I'll have to add the brake controller myself.

I'd far rather buy a used one than a new one and I'm aware of the piston slap issue so I'll be very careful. Trouble? Not one sales guy I've talked to has any idea HOW to tell what rear end is in any given vehicle. Knowing this forum is the source for ALL useful knowledge, please tell me so I can check for myself. Is there something in the VIN number or on the manufacturing plate that I can check?

I'm about ready to try E-Bay (yuck) and traderonline.com.

Thanks, Tin Lizzie

**Stefrobrts** · 03-05-2005, 11:52 AM

On my Ford van you can decode it off the door sticker. The manual has instructions on decoding.

Never trust used car dealers. They know NOTHING! I once spent twenty minutes watching a Chevy salesman try to figure out how to open the trunk on a 68 vette. Here's a hint - 68 vettes don't have trunks! He just kept saying, 'hold on, I've almost got it'....

Good luck finding your perfect tow vehicle!

Foiled Again · 03-05-2005, 12:05 PM

20 minutes if you're very, very lucky.

T. L.

Mike Lewis · 03-05-2005, 12:07 PM

There used to be a sticker in the glove box on GM trucks. It would have a code that I would take to a GM parts dept. to have decipher. -----Pieman

overlander64 · 03-05-2005, 01:09 PM

Greetings Tin Lizzie!

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulaFord

Grrrh! Used Car salesmen. OK, I've got a 22 ft CCD and I've pretty well decided I want to tow it with a Suburban. I know I need a 4.1 rear end as well as extra cooling on the brake and transmission fluids and extendable towing mirrors. I'm sure I'll have to add the brake controller myself.

I'd far rather buy a used one than a new one and I'm aware of the piston slap issue so I'll be very careful. Trouble? Not one sales guy I've talked to has any idea HOW to tell what rear end is in any given vehicle. Knowing this forum is the source for ALL useful knowledge, please tell me so I can check for myself. Is there something in the VIN number or on the manufacturing plate that I can check?

I'm about ready to try E-Bay (yuck) and traderonline.com.

Thanks, Tin Lizzie

It is my understanding that the codes below would be of most interest for trailer towing on post-2000 Suburbans (there would be differences in the 1999 and before as they were of the older body style):

Z85 Suspension Package, Handling/Trailering, heavy-duty
GT4 Rear axle, 3.73 ratio
GU5 Rear axle, 3.23 ratio
GT5 Rear axle, 4.10 ratio
LQ4 Engine, Vortec 6000 V8 SFI, (335 HP @ 5200 rpm,
375 lb.-ft. @ 4000 rpm)
L18 Engine, Vortec 8100 V8 SFI, (320 HP @ 4200 rpm,
440 lb.-ft. @ 3200 rpm)
KG3 Alternator, 145 amps
C6P GVWR, 8600 lbs.
G80 Differential, locking, heavy-duty, rear
Z82 Trailering equipment, heavy-duty, includes trailering hitch
platform, 7-lead wiring connector, auxiliary transmission oil
cooler, trailer brake pre-wire harness and 7-way to 4-way
adapter
MT1 Transmission, 4-speed automatic, heavy-duty,
electronically controlled with overdrive, tow/haul mode and
(KNP) Cooling, external transmission oil cooler
KNP Cooling, auxiliary transmission oil cooler, heavy-duty
air-to-oil
K47 Air cleaner, high-capacity

Both of my GM SUVs have the optional equipment coding sheets on the inside of the glove box door ('99 GMC K2500 Suburban and '94 S-10 Blazer).

My '99 is the first Suburban that I have owned, but it is my second large SUV (the first was an '84 Jeep Grand Wagoneer -- full-size prior to downsizing). I find the station wagon style body to be so much more useful than the two pickups that I owned - - I doubt that I will ever purchase another pickup.

Good luck with your search!

Kevin

davidz71 · 03-05-2005, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulaFord

20 minutes if you're very, very lucky.

T. L.

Hmmm,
Let's see, original post made at 12:26 p.m. and good answer made at 1:07 p.m. Not bad at all.

alan · 03-05-2005, 03:50 PM

The codes mentioned in the one of the other posts are RPO (regular published option) codes. There is typically a sticker in the glovebox with these codes.

You don't need the 4.10 rear to pull your 22 ft trailer if you can find a 3/4 ton. I have a 03 Suburban with the 6.0 and 3.73 rear, pulling a 25 ft. Sovereign and it works fine (well within the tow rating). Fuel economy runs 11.5 - 12 mpg towing.

I never imagined that I would end up with a burb. I test drove the pickups as well as the full-size van, and the burb came out on top.

Foiled Again · 03-05-2005, 04:26 PM

Thank you, thank you, thank you. I'm gonna go out and make some salesman's life hell now!

Tin Lizzie

Over59 · 03-05-2005, 05:19 PM

They have some great deals on new ones. $3500 back on a 2500 Crewcab pickup. Thats the seats of a burb and a place to put dirt.

Foiled Again · 03-05-2005, 05:25 PM

Well I just talked to a nice man in Kitty Hawk North Carolina who has an '04 DuraMax Crew Cab with 31,000 miles on it for $33,848. That's probably a pretty good deal, but is more than I really want to pay for a tow vehicle.

Says he can't find a Suburban with a tow package anywhere and he's hooked into the Chevy network.

Not gonna give up though, I'll just expand my search area.

sigh, Tin Lizzie

alan · 03-05-2005, 05:48 PM

That's approximately what I paid for my burb new. The markup on trade ins is substantial. Use online guides such as Kelly or Edmunds to help set a value.

norbert · 03-05-2005, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulaFord

Grrrh! Used Car salesmen. OK,

I'd far rather buy a used one than a new one Tin Lizzie

in the interest of propitiation....i will not comment.
norby:-)

Silvertwinkie · 03-05-2005, 06:56 PM

2wd or 4wd?

If you're ok w/2wd then:

http://www.cars.com/go/search/fs_sea...l&aff=national

It's 115 miles away and has the 6.0L engine. It's a 3/4 ton (not that you need that much for a 22') at Witmore Chevy Olds

overlander64 · 03-05-2005, 06:58 PM

Greetings Tin Lizzie!

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulaFord

Well I just talked to a nice man in Kitty Hawk North Carolina who has an '04 DuraMax Crew Cab with 31,000 miles on it for $33,848. That's probably a pretty good deal, but is more than I really want to pay for a tow vehicle.

Says he can't find a Suburban with a tow package anywhere and he's hooked into the Chevy network.

Not gonna give up though, I'll just expand my search area.

sigh, Tin Lizzie

If you haven't already discovered the GM Certified Used search tool, you can access the GM Certified Used vehicle inventory of every GM dealer via:

http://www.gmbuypower.com/cuvHome.cv...=001&year=2004

Good luck with your search!

Kevin

Silvertwinkie · 03-05-2005, 07:02 PM

Oh and by the way, GM currently has incentives of $4000 cash back...add to the fact you can easily get another $5000 off list, anything you buy will be about $9k off list. I know this because when we bought our 2004, it was $5,000 off through GM incentives, plus we talked them down an additional $5,000 for a total of $10,000 off sticker for a new 2004 3/4 Suburban LT 4wd with all the bells and whistles.... now if you're not payin' cash, then they have very low APRs.

If used is what you want, use www.autotrader.com and also try www.cars.com lots of used Burbs out there, few 3/4 tons, but they are always around...also try the GMC version..might yield a few more out there.

norbert · 03-05-2005, 07:14 PM

twink...you da man!

davidz71 · 03-05-2005, 07:21 PM

If the vehicle is equipped with the Chevy 6.0, go with the 4.10 if possible. The 6.0 is a high reving engine with a flat torque curve and from every post I have seen on the pickuptrucks.com forum prefers the 4.10 over the 3.73.

Silvertwinkie · 03-05-2005, 07:30 PM

Actually, me pops has the 6.0L with 3.73s in the Silverado and I have the 6.0L in the Burb with 4.10s. Though the 4.10s do increase the towing ability, if you come across a Burb w/ 3.73s, it still will be way more than ample to tow your 22' unit even through the rockies. If you plan a coach upgrade from 22' then by all means start to filter out the 3.73 and go straight to 4.10s. I have towed with both and at the weights you are talking about, you too will not notice any difference on flat to moderate grade.

The 4.10s will also lower the MPG slightly due to slightly higher RPMs. Keep that in mind while gas is over $2/gal and the 3/4 ton beasts have 37 gallon tanks.

Keeping this in perspective though, unless you're upgrading to a larger coach, then even the 1500 Suburban (1/2 ton) would be more than up to your needs. After that it's just a personal call/choice. It can be had with either 3.73s or 4.10 and trailer pkgs.

Condoluminum · 03-05-2005, 08:11 PM

If you find older Suburban and want to check codes, this web link will take to a Forum similar to ours, and a post listing every single RPO Code GM ever used... Using the label of computer printout codes in dash glove box of any Suburban, you can decode axles, tow pkgs, engines and paint, and everything else you'd like to know...

Link over to: http://forum.4adrive.com/t5629-s.html

For what it's worth, we pull 1989 Excella 25' trailer with Gross Wt around 6000# using a 10 year old SUburban 1500, with tow package and anemic pre-Vortec 5.8L 200hp V-8... Trailer probably grosses at close to same weight of CCD 22' wider trailer.. Though we have to slow a little and enjoy the view more pulling up over large mountains, it's fine downhill or on level ground, towing at 60 to 65mph, and has pulled trailer over Grpavevine in southern Calif, Siskayous in Northern Calif and Oregon, Rockies in Canada and US without problems...

Foiled Again · 03-06-2005, 01:04 AM

Thanks to all of you for your excellent and informative advice. Obviously, I AM losing sleep trying to decide.

I'm keeping my current car for day to day driving. It's paid for, it's a Lexus (all show, no tow) and gets decent mileage. The Suburban will be solely for towing.

I'm planning on using Tin Lizzie as a mobile office 4-5 times a year; so between business, family and pleasure I'll be on the road 12-15 times a year. I a free bird and I think I'll be very happy with the 22ft for a long, long time. Though, lots of my friends seem to be catching the bug and have indicated they'd love to take a trip with me! (I'll invite 'em along once, then intro them to this forum and let nature take it's course.) I'll hope to make a trip or two out west but for the most part I'll be well east of the rockies so it's not like I'll be running Donner Pass in January.
Family is in Ohio so Tin Lizzie and I can visit the factory easily!

Silver Twinkie, you're not the first person who has said a 1500 'burb will do the trick and I think you're right, plus there are more to choose from and prices are lower. That just leaves more money for WBCCI rallies, right? So you think the 3.73 axle would do it on the 1500? Finding the tow package seems to be the hard part. If you were buying a 1500 what would you look for as essential and what as "nice to have but could live without"? I've seen the extending mirrors for sale as an aftermarket thing - and I'm sure I could install them myself. Should I even consider buying something used without the tow package and having a dealer install the stuff post-purchase? Got any feel for cost of doing that?

I favor the hatchback over the barn door because it can keep you dry if you're hitching or unhitching in the rain. And of course I'd prefer a silver one to coordinate with the A/S - and because silver doesn't look dirty the day after you wash it.

Tin Lizzie