Some very specific 2018 F150 TV questions

[denton]

Originally Posted by AirstreamCSH

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TONS of great info, thanks!

[Oxen]

Originally Posted by denton

Greetings:

I have been following and reading all the tow vehicle threads over the past six months, and I am trying to avoid duplication. Therefore I’m trying to keep my questions very specific.

My favorite thread is here concerning @kscherzi’s F150 Lariat purchase. I’ve decided that is pretty much what I need, with some minor exceptions.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...ay-162484.html

I’m planning to order the 2018 version, which has just become available to build on Ford’s website. Mainly because the 2018 F150 promises to add some unspecified towing improvements. Plus it’s almost time and one is unlikely to find a properly configured 2017 TV in dealer stock.

I want to get a F150 over anything else because Ford is the American car company that f*cked me the longest time ago, since then the other two both did. Also I really appreciate the aluminum, the turbo engine, the ten speed, and the other attempts to make a big truck reasonably efficient.

We will be retiring in a couple of years and after having been to Colonial to look at trailers we’ve settled on a FC 23D as perfect for us (or, as it is now called, the 23CB). We like that it is the shortest trailer with dual axles, and we like that it is the longest of the narrow trailers. As I have not driven large trucks in decades or ever pulled trailers I don’t want to bite off more than I can chew. We also prefer the living area of the 23D over the 23FB. We sat in a 25D and didn’t feel we got much in space for the extra few inches of width. The only thing we don’t like is that the 23CB has a heavy hitch weight of 654 lbs, so that is why I am seeking advice. Don’t want to get a TV that ends up being marginal.

It will only be my wife and I, no kids, grandkids, or dogs. I’m a big guy so between us we weigh just under 350 lbs. And we tend to like stuff, and it seems that from reading the threads there is plenty of stuff. Generators. BBQ grills. Chairs. Picnic tables. Tools and more tools.

It also occurs to us that we are not billionaires, and all kinds of sh*t can happen to the economy, the stock market, our health, Social Security, etc etc. between now and our retirement date. So we also want to plan for not being able to buy an AS at all. In that case, we still want the F150 for its carrying capacity, off road capability, and comfort. If we can’t afford an AS, we will just buy a big tent and camping gear and see the country that way. So we want a nice, comfortable, luxurious truck to do it in. In spite of the cost to payload from leather seats and all that stuff. And, as we live in Manhattan, it will be our only vehicle. We own a parking spot and the 5.5' bed will just fit in it, wouldn’t want to go any longer or we are asking for trouble.

I’ve read that Ford dealers don’t know much about towing and payloads and such. I’ve read that they can’t even give you a ballpark payload and until the truck shows up and you look at the sticker on the door. We decided we will buy this truck from a dealer in upstate NY, and we paid them a visit. Sure enough the conventional wisdom was correct. The guy I spoke with (who was nice enough) wasn’t even sure which of the door stickers it was on. I had hoped to find on the lot some optioned up trucks like high end King Ranches or Platinums that had all the options including sunroofs and such. But apparently they had sold them all recently. They had a bunch of XLTs with cloth seats and no sunroofs, with payloads running around 1700lbs.

My biggest fear is that the truck shows up with a payload that is barely adequate for the 23CB and the usual stuff we would carry. At the same time, I don’t want to buy a bigger truck. Don’t have room for it.

I have a 2017 F-150 XLT, max tow, max payload, 157" wheelbase, crew, 6.5' bed, 4X2, 3.5 EB, 3.73 axle ratio, 10 speed trans. I get 22+ mpg when driving mostly 60 mph, 20 mpg when driving mostly 70 mph. I haven't towed yet.

On a long climb from near the Mississippi River valley the trans stayed in 10 gear the whole way, no need to downshift.

It took 16 weeks for the truck to arrive after I ordered it. The maxpayload is available with an XLT 301a package, which requires a 157" wheelbase and 3.73 axle ratio. Therefore, with a Supercrew cab you would have to have a 6.5' bed.

On the ford.com site, F-150 build you own feature try different combinations, but my understanding is that only the XLT w/ 3.73 axle, 3.5L EB and 157" wheelbase, and 3.01a feature package will give you maximum payload. It also give you maximum towing.

My towing capacity is 11,700 lbs. My payload is 2683 lbs. Payload would be 100# less with 4X4. Don't turn your nose up at the excess towing capacity. It's insurance.

[LBOskiBear]

I have a 2015 3.5L 4X4 Super Crew. I ended up with a crazily-optioned one that I got off the lot with a good deal - never would have optioned it the way it was. Not packages, but a whole lot of individual options - must have been one that someone didn't end up buying.

A few things now that I've been towing with it for a couple of years:

1. I tow a 27FB and it's not even breathing hard, even when I'm going up to a campsite at 8,000'
2. The payload on mine is about 1,750lbs
3. I don't have the sunroof and, for once in a car, I'm OK with it. I'm 6'2" and really long in the torso but the truck's cab is so tall that I don't feel boxed in, which is usually a problem when I'm in a car without a moonroof.
4. Tailgate step is a pretty nifty option that I'd be reluctant to give up
5. I think the box steps are only necessary if you think you'll be reaching over a lot, which I don't
6. Most of my stuff (which isn't a lot) I leave in the trailer so the truck just holds two humans and groceries
7. I hate the stickers (I have the sport package with more stickers) but I can't remove them b/c the truck is leased. They appear to come off fairly easily if you're careful
8. I don't have power running boards, not sure how much value they would be if you're not offroading or anything where you want them retracted. Just another potential electronic item that can go bad

Will say that I love my truck. Lease expires in a year and am already excited about building the next one to replace it

[RVDreamer]

I would say to build the F150 that you want. I don't know why you are as concerned about weight as you are. The F150 even fully equipped King Ranch still has ample payload capacity to handle your hitch weight and cargo.

Even a fully loaded F-150 Raptor has a payload capacity of 1200 lbs.

The 23D will be a breeze to tow with whatever truck you build. The only thing you will need to think about is a weight distribution hitch. It might not be necessary but it would make the vehicle a lot safer and your towing experience more enjoyable in the long run.

[75Bob]

I have a2013 F150 ecoboost and I'm pulling a 7000 lb. fully loaded 25 ft. AS I currently have 8000 mi. on it. The weight distribution bars put the proper load on front and back shocks but it helps that they are heavy duty 4x4 shocks. I have needed 4 wheel drive only 2wice, but man was I glad I had it. Be sure to count in the weight of the box cover in back

[dkottum]

Put your effort and money into the Airstream, and take another look at the 25-26-27-28's for long term (retirement) comfort, liquid and gear storage capacity while traveling. Airstreams tow easier and well, compared to the others. A huge variety of vehicles can tow it comfortably and safely with a professional hitch and vehicle setup.

For example, Can-Am Airstream in London, ON has equipped thousands of minivans and SUV's to do the job, and prefers them over a pickup. The standard internet advice is to detail a pickup truck for payload capacity with little concern about the many things that actually make a good, stable tow vehicle. As well as a decent daily driver.

[DKB_SATX]

I tow a bigger trailer with a significantly higher tongue weight than you're considering. My '17 F150 is a heavily-optioned Lariat Supercrew 502A. I specifically avoided the sunroof, mainly for the reasons mentioned here. I usually keep a vehicle 8+ years, and big sunroofs in body-on-frame vehicles don't age well IMHO, and there's the heat load in Texas. The weight savings is just gravy. My payload on the B-pillar is 1626 lb.

I have the tailgate step, box-side steps because I'm not tall and the truck is, and having to climb in and wade through gear to get something in the front corner of the box is... frustrating. I'll just be polite and say frustrating.

I got 4x4 because we like to boondock. Nothing crazy, but I've been in a couple of situations trying to get rolling in a wet grassy field where it was work to get my rig moving with my previous 2WD with a limited-slip diff, so I figured I'd just go for it. It's one of those things that I need once every year or two, but it's really nice to have then. And if you get a Lariat or above, it comes with a "4A" automatic mode that's great for variable conditions, rain-slick streets, etc. I used 4WD towing the trailer on my way back from the dealer, I stopped off at a friend's place in Tennessee and needed 4A to negotiate an uphill stretch of wet grassy field to get turned around and parked by their 30A outlet without tearing up the grass.

Comparing my truck to an otherwise-similar Lariat build, I think the box-side steps cost about 25 lb apiece. Well worth it with my short legs!

Consider ordering LT tires with the truck if you're going to custom-order. If you're one of those guys who's planning to throw away perfectly good wheels and tires to get something custom, then you can go LT at that time. The only thing I regret about my order is not getting the LTs initially, I suspect I'll buy them next year. It'll make less of a difference to you, but with 950 lb on the tongue I can feel what I perceive to be a bit more flex in the sidewalls than I like, but you'll have to look hard to find someone who's more picky about vehicle behavior than I am so it may be something sane people never notice.

[slowmover]

One of you F150 owners have a TARE weight to help this man?

Max fuel, driver plus gear permanently aboard.

"Tow rating" and "cargo capacity" don't have too much meaning.

What IS useful are wheel/tire/axle ratings.

So, what's the truck spec you current owners, what is the TARE weight per Axle, and what are those w-t-a ratings?

OP, with a WD hitch the assumption is that 75-80% of TW will remain on the vehicle. 650-lbs is thus 500-lbs; or near enough to 250-lbs per Axle (although it won't be this neat).

[denton]

Originally Posted by DKB_SATX

Consider ordering LT tires with the truck if you're going to custom-order. If you're one of those guys who's planning to throw away perfectly good wheels and tires to get something custom, then you can go LT at that time. someone who's more picky about

Thanks for all the great advice. Re the LT tires, on the Ford website, for 2017 and 2018, they show an LT tire option. But if you check it it forces you to also order the off-road package, which I don't want. Since it will be a couple of years between me buying the truck and the trailer, I figured I will just buy the LT tires then.

[DKB_SATX]

Originally Posted by denton

Thanks for all the great advice. Re the LT tires, on the Ford website, for 2017 and 2018, they show an LT tire option. But if you check it it forces you to also order the off-road package, which I don't want. Since it will be a couple of years between me buying the truck and the trailer, I figured I will just buy the LT tires then.

The stock Wranglers are entirely adequate for daily-driver use, so that's a good plan. Wear them out a bit until you buy the trailer. Since I neglected to order the LTs I didn't realize Ford only provides them in howler...er... off-road tread.

[PatLee]

Totally agree, that's what I ordered in my 2017 F-150 Lariat on 24 May. I ordered it the very last possible day that I could before they stopped making Lariats in the 2017 model year. I went back and forth for months about 4x4 or 2x4 because I've always had 4x4. However, after reading up on the rear diff (has it's own button when you need it), I decided I'd go with it to get better gas mileage over the life of the truck. Unless you plan to be driving in snow in the Adirondacks, the rear diff could be enough. Less weight, too.

[PatLee]

I didn't want the dealer's sticker stuck on back of my truck either so I just kept hammering on that point with the salesman overtime we went over the list. I got the max tow package and every single safety option they offered which ended up shoving me into the Lariat trim line which I think I will love. I get my truck on 1 August and I CANNOT WAIT TO START LOVING IT!

[DKB_SATX]

So, the Lariat on its own, with me, the dog, my tri-fold tonneau, full fuel and a bit of camping gear but NOT the generators or fuel for the generators, etc weighed in at 5820 lb against a gross weight rating of 7000. Full disclosure: The dog and I are kinda chunky, I weigh as much as a really skinny couple. The site's table formatting in a comment is... limited. Sorry it looks crappy.


Max Gross Tare
Total 7000 5820
Front 3525 3220
Rear 3800 2600

[MelGoddard]

"Jesus H. Christ"!
i just lost another comprehensive answer to that 'idiot' "Captcha".
What kind of game is this, that 'someone' is playing????

[DKB_SATX]

Originally Posted by MelGoddard

"Jesus H. Christ"!
i just lost another comprehensive answer to that 'idiot' "Captcha".
What kind of game is this, that 'someone' is playing????

Nerd advice: Before clicking "Submit Reply" I generally hit ctrl-A ctrl-C so if something dumb happens in the several machine and communications links involved in the transaction, I have my work preserved on the clipboard buffer. If you use a Mac, it's command-A command-C.

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by DKB_SATX

So, the Lariat on its own, with me, the dog, my tri-fold tonneau, full fuel and a bit of camping gear but NOT the generators or fuel for the generators, etc weighed in at 5820 lb against a gross weight rating of 7000. Full disclosure: The dog and I are kinda chunky, I weigh as much as a really skinny couple. The site's table formatting in a comment is... limited. Sorry it looks crappy.


Max Gross Tare
Total 7000 5820
Front 3525 3220
Rear 3800 2600

Useful matters, thanks

OP, it's an example. The "tow rating" just like the "cargo capacity" is really about keeping loaded and empty performance similar.. But the truck has another 300 on the front and 1200 on the rear (even though that's over "gross").

Is it over tire/wheel/Axle ratings?

It's room to work with.

IOW, it's the way we hauled heavier trailers in the 1960s and 1970s and the thing worked fine.

Towing a travel trailer tends to be part-time. Limited miles.

Don't sweat some weight. Other considerations matter more.

DKB, look to better shock absorbers KONI or Bilstein , polyurethane antiroll bar bushings (and/or larger bars as a matched pair, but it roughens ride), and a rear track bar (panhard Rod). It's not entirely the tires. It's as much or more the suspension straining against the frame/body with the trailer mass in tow

. A VPP hitch significantly reduces this strain since the TT doesn't get out of alignment. The P Rod is almost as good. Read up on them. (Fred Puhn, best)

Thomson prefers shorter sidewall and wider tread. Look at that also (among Ford offerings. Craigslist takeoffs).

Tall stiff sidewalls aren't much fun on HD tires. Pressures are huge. And still won't fix movement. For that, tune suspension with baby steps as above (short of larger antiroll bars).

.

[CDONA]

Is there an option for the standard two door cab, and a boost in GVWR?

[DKB_SATX]

Originally Posted by CDONA

Is there an option for the standard two door cab, and a boost in GVWR?

No regular-cab Lariats anymore... I believe they start at Supercab. Several of the things the OP wants are only available on Lariats.

[MelGoddard]

Originally Posted by DKB_SATX

Nerd advice: Before clicking "Submit Reply" I generally hit ctrl-A ctrl-C so if something dumb happens in the several machine and communications links involved in the transaction, I have my work preserved on the clipboard buffer. If you use a Mac, it's command-A command-C.

Thanks, I'll write it down and try it next time; and there will be a next time, I'm sure.