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Old 07-25-2017, 05:07 PM   #1
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Some very specific 2018 F150 TV questions

Greetings:

I have been following and reading all the tow vehicle threads over the past six months, and I am trying to avoid duplication. Therefore I’m trying to keep my questions very specific.

My favorite thread is here concerning @kscherzi’s F150 Lariat purchase. I’ve decided that is pretty much what I need, with some minor exceptions.
http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...ay-162484.html

I’m planning to order the 2018 version, which has just become available to build on Ford’s website. Mainly because the 2018 F150 promises to add some unspecified towing improvements. Plus it’s almost time and one is unlikely to find a properly configured 2017 TV in dealer stock.

I want to get a F150 over anything else because Ford is the American car company that f*cked me the longest time ago, since then the other two both did. Also I really appreciate the aluminum, the turbo engine, the ten speed, and the other attempts to make a big truck reasonably efficient.

We will be retiring in a couple of years and after having been to Colonial to look at trailers we’ve settled on a FC 23D as perfect for us (or, as it is now called, the 23CB). We like that it is the shortest trailer with dual axles, and we like that it is the longest of the narrow trailers. As I have not driven large trucks in decades or ever pulled trailers I don’t want to bite off more than I can chew. We also prefer the living area of the 23D over the 23FB. We sat in a 25D and didn’t feel we got much in space for the extra few inches of width. The only thing we don’t like is that the 23CB has a heavy hitch weight of 654 lbs, so that is why I am seeking advice. Don’t want to get a TV that ends up being marginal.

It will only be my wife and I, no kids, grandkids, or dogs. I’m a big guy so between us we weigh just under 350 lbs. And we tend to like stuff, and it seems that from reading the threads there is plenty of stuff. Generators. BBQ grills. Chairs. Picnic tables. Tools and more tools.

It also occurs to us that we are not billionaires, and all kinds of sh*t can happen to the economy, the stock market, our health, Social Security, etc etc. between now and our retirement date. So we also want to plan for not being able to buy an AS at all. In that case, we still want the F150 for its carrying capacity, off road capability, and comfort. If we can’t afford an AS, we will just buy a big tent and camping gear and see the country that way. So we want a nice, comfortable, luxurious truck to do it in. In spite of the cost to payload from leather seats and all that stuff. And, as we live in Manhattan, it will be our only vehicle. We own a parking spot and the 5.5' bed will just fit in it, wouldn’t want to go any longer or we are asking for trouble.

I’ve read that Ford dealers don’t know much about towing and payloads and such. I’ve read that they can’t even give you a ballpark payload and until the truck shows up and you look at the sticker on the door. We decided we will buy this truck from a dealer in upstate NY, and we paid them a visit. Sure enough the conventional wisdom was correct. The guy I spoke with (who was nice enough) wasn’t even sure which of the door stickers it was on. I had hoped to find on the lot some optioned up trucks like high end King Ranches or Platinums that had all the options including sunroofs and such. But apparently they had sold them all recently. They had a bunch of XLTs with cloth seats and no sunroofs, with payloads running around 1700lbs.

Here’s the way I want to build it:
-Super Crew, 5.5' box, 3.5L EB, 4x4, with 3.55 locker, Max Trailer, folding trailer mirrors
-502A equipment package
-Technology package
-Box side steps (but I wonder what they weigh)
-Sunroof, I must have the sunroof!
-Spray in liner
-Adaptive cruise

I’m willing to listen to anyone who tells me I shouldn’t get 4x4, certainly it adds to cost and weight. But we live in NYC and have a house in the Adirondacks and can’t imagine driving a pickup with 2wd in the winter.


I assume I SHOULDN’T get:
-The FX-4 offroad package. With skid plates and different suspension looks heavy, and I don’t plan to do any serious off-roading.

-The tailgate step which I read here was a few hundred pounds.

-The power running boards.

It seems it would be so simple for Ford to have a floating widget on their site which would show the payload go up and down as you add options. I suppose they don’t because people might buy fewer options.

In lieu of that, someone here mentioned that there are lists floating around with this info. Just googling without asking in the Ford forums, I didn’t see any. Can anyone point me to one?

My biggest fear is that the truck shows up with a payload that is barely adequate for the 23CB and the usual stuff we would carry. At the same time, I don’t want to buy a bigger truck. Don’t have room for it.


Another question I have, to anyone who has ordered a truck recently from the factory, what discount were you able to negotiate? I know it will be tough on a brand new model year truck, but then again it seems auto sales are slowing down right now...

One tiny question, is it possible to order the truck with a delete sticker option? I really don't care for those 4x4 graphics on the rear of the truck.

Last question is regarding fuel. From what I can see, the 3.5L EB can accept regular gas, but that premium is recommended for ‘severe service’. I imagine towing a 6000 lb trailer would qualify as severe. What are you guys doing?

Thanks in advance for all your help.

Denton
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Old 07-25-2017, 05:38 PM   #2
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Hi

If you can get it, I'd go for the electronic locking rear axle. I'd get that over the 4x4 if it came down to a choice. With "adequate" weight in the back end of the truck, it will get you out of more upstate NY snow issues than the 4x4 will ....

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Old 07-25-2017, 05:43 PM   #3
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Hi Denton,

First. I think you'll be very happy with the F-150 to pull the trailer you're considering and as general transportation. I pondered many of the same issues and options last year when purchasing a 2017 F150 that you are now, so hopefully my experience will be useful to you on a couple of points.

Sunroof: Ok, I know you "have to have it". Keep in mind that it weighs 64 pounds and therefore subtracts that much from your payload. My experience with large panoramic roofs is that over time, even if they don't leak, they often begin to creak or rattle and the F150 is quiet enough that you will notice it. That said, your tolerance for that kind of thing may be much higher than mine. Also, in any warm climate the heat loading through a big glass roof like that is substantial. Sure, you can close the shade, but then what's the point of the roof? Admittedly, except for the payload aspect, this is all subjective so take it with a grain of salt. Just sayin'....

Rear tailgate step: This option weighs 40 pounds, not several hundred. I didn't get it and wish I had. Especially with a tall 4x4 it gets old after awhile clambering into the bed with the tailgate down or using the bumper with the tailgate up.

Power running boards: I love this option. Yes, they weigh 57 pounds. But keep in mind that with a 4x4 you are likely to want running boards of some kind. (My wife couldn't get in the truck without them). Fixed running boards weigh anywhere from 29 to 40 pounds for the Super Crew so the weight delta isn't that much.

Pickup box access steps: These add 63 pounds. I don't have them. The tailgate step weighs less....

I don't know about a delete option on the 4x4 sticker. I'm fairly sure it's just a decal and judicious use of a heat gun could probably remove it.

I have no argument with the rest of your choices. I didn't get the off road package either, for the same reasons you mention but I did skip the adaptive cruise. Personal choice. Oh, and the fuel.... Based on Ford's specification it's apparent that the engine delivers more power with premium fuel, therefore being the car nerd/power junkie that I am I use premium all the time. However, there's probably no overriding reason not to use regular or a mid grade for everyday driving; one probably wouldn't notice a difference. If you do this, I would use premium for towing.

You'll really like this truck. Let me know if you have other questions.

Mike
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Old 07-25-2017, 05:55 PM   #4
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Denton,

Sounds like you know what you want, from the research you have done. You will likely get a variety of responses here on the forum regarding towing; everything from all you need is a Chevette to a Sherman Tank. Guess I am dating myself with the Chevette reference.

FWIW, I towed with a previous generation F150, and used it in a north eastern climate as a daily driver. My experience? Any half ton will have payload issues. You can manage them. Definitely would get the 4x4. Definitely would not get the power running boards - if you have salted roads in the winter they will fail and are enormously expensive to repair/replace. Would not get the tailgate step - it will not let items like a barbecue sit flat on the gate. Would not get a bed cap again. Went back to a tri fold hard tonneau cover that locks. Would not get the bed steps, for the same reason as the power running boards.

Good luck with your purchase!

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Old 07-25-2017, 05:57 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeinca View Post
Hi Denton,

You'll really like this truck. Let me know if you have other questions.

Mike
Mike, thanks for your detailed answer. Since you asked, what I really want to know is where did you find out all those weights? :-)
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Old 07-25-2017, 06:26 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by denton View Post
Mike, thanks for your detailed answer. Since you asked, what I really want to know is where did you find out all those weights? :-)
I found them here:

https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas...load_SB_v5.pdf

The numbers are for 2016 but I'm pretty sure they will be similar, if not identical, for 2017-2018.

To DMT's point about salt and the power running boards, that may very well be an issue where you live; not so much here in California . FWIW, I got a Ford extended warranty for about $2K that covers me for 8 years and is refundable for time remaining on the contract if I sell early, so I don't have to worry about the various subsystems that may fail.

And you asked originally about ordering from the factory. I ordered my 2017 at the beginning of the model year last fall. Discounts will vary widely from dealer to dealer, but mine sold me a truck at their invoice price and additionally there was a $750 incentive from Ford. So getting a good deal is possible, even on a factory ordered vehicle.
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Old 07-25-2017, 06:35 PM   #7
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You might want to reconsider the tailgate step. The 4x4 option raises the truck VERY high. I am 6' 1", and would have a LOT of trouble getting in the back without that step. It does not weigh "hundreds of pounds." I think it is about 75 pounds. When I installed the tailgate lowering shock, I removed and reinstalled the tailgate by myself, and I ain't no Atlas.

I would get the 4x4 option. (I did.) I have it because when we are camping, sometimes the best scenic views are not on paved roads. I do agree that you don't need the FX4 option.

I would not get the retracting steps. Just something else to go wrong. But, do get a step. The height of the truck again.
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Old 07-25-2017, 06:37 PM   #8
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One more thing on the tailgate step. I'm pretty sure they changed the design from earlier models and the mechanism is now (as of at least 2017) contained entirely within the tailgate so the inside tailgate surface is flat. Take a close look at the photo of this option in the "build and price" on the Ford website and you'll see what I mean....
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Old 07-25-2017, 07:05 PM   #9
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Hats off to Ford then for continuous improvement. Sounds like the tailgate step is much improved.

One thing I did not mention was that the step I had could not be used when hitched, as it retracted straight out of the back and pivoted down. If I was in the market I would take a look at some of the aftermarket options, like the ones that sit under the left or right side of the bumper. There are lots of times I need to get into the bed while hitched.
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Old 07-25-2017, 08:01 PM   #10
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Our FX4 stickers were easy to peel off, with no marks or residue. Joe
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Old 07-25-2017, 10:21 PM   #11
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- I went through this when specifying the options I wanted for my F250.
You start with the Ford Order Guide to determine exactly what options come with which packages.
Then, you use the Options section of the eSourcebook for your F150.
There shouldn't be a significant difference between 2017 and 2018 weights.
Look at page 39 of the attached for the weights and note that you need to include silly things like floor mats all the way to options like adaptive cruise control. Add it all up to determine your payload. Get good at it by practicing with a sticker on the dealers lot and checking the doorframe. For the F250 I posted a spreadsheet and someone may have done this for the more popular F150 but knowing the why behind it is crucial.

By now you've realized that there is a huge weight penalty for higher trim levels so keep it in mind.
https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas...cs_1-23-17.pdf


- As to payload, you are concerned with people, fuel, cargo and tongue weight of the trailer.
Your choice of weight distribution hitch will impact the tongue weight that the trailer places on the pickup as it will send some of that to the front tires. I use an Equalizer on my 25FB.

- I'd strongly recommend you consider a cap to store your stuff into. Being able to open the side and rear doors to access gear in Rubbermaid buckets without taking the whole cover off can't be understated. Furthermore, being able to put the rugs, chairs and stuff you buy along the way on top of the Rubbermaids without worrying about clearance to the top of the bed cover makes the difference between easy and annoying. YMMV

- I thought the rear tailgate steps were a joke but they came with my truck trim. What a safety item and timesaver! I'm not in my 20's anymore and able to jump up or down without some considerations. The steps work with or without a cap.

- You want running boards but don't need something else to break. I had to get them and my trim level and I like them but wouldn't have chosen to order them.

- FX4 was an option I wanted for the skid plates. I've had them on all of my vehicles and was glad I did 2X. Hopefully you will park the AS and try out a dirt road to reach a trailhead. Sometimes there are difficulties and at a factory order price, I was happy to get them.

Finally - don't order a F150 custom before you create an account on www.cars.com and have a regular search done. Seems the dealers all over the country post there inventory here. You will get the best price by driving and taking one that comes close off the lot.

If you must order, I'm a NYr also and purchased mine from a dealer in PA. No nonsense, discount off dealer cost plus you get any rebates. Happy to share info if you PM me. I found my local dealers less than favorable to deal with.

Lastly, join the Quarter-horse association (AQHA) as Ford gives $500 cash back to members after 60 days. I missed out by two weeks so send your $40 now and get $500 back from Ford regardless of any other deal.
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Old 07-26-2017, 04:20 AM   #12
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If you are as concerned as you appear to be as to weight and payload. Take a look at the F250 Gasser.

You mentioned you were going to retire. Check to see if your company is a supplier to Ford, there is a discount. OR if you have a relative who works for Ford - a deeper discount.

I would not buy a truck without the Ford tailgate step. Other brands have little steps in the bumper, I cannot put both feet in the hole, on the step I can.

4x4 for sure.
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Old 07-26-2017, 04:36 AM   #13
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I'd rather have a used truck and an airstream than a new king ranch and a tent. Just saying...

As for tailgate step, my f250 came with it. I really didn't want it. But I do use it now as I have it. It is useful.
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Old 07-26-2017, 07:18 AM   #14
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To the OP

Dealership I'm at, F150KR with twin panel moonroof, side steps, technology package, 36 gal tank, BLIS, 3.55

Payload 1535lbs
VIN 1FTEW1EG9HFB46843

window sticker $65,340
Advertised discount $58,535
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Old 07-26-2017, 08:15 AM   #15
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Expensive overthinking to underachieve.

If concerned about budget, keep it simple and reliable. Any modern half-ton truck with a tow package and V8 gas engine will take you and your 25' Airstream throughout America with ease. The difference in driving safety and comfort and weight management will be in the hitch system, spend a little extra money here and get the best possible setup.

We've been retired, Airstreaming 6-7 months a year for the last eight years. Our first truck was a used 2006 Tundra, $16000. Our second was a new 2012 Ram V8 Reg Cab, $24,000. The 120" wheelbase 3-passenger Ram with a ProPride hitch was an extraordinary tow vehicle and great daily driver, even in the city. Out too-expensive Ram EcoDiesel is also a great tow vehicle for our Airstream 25 with 1050 payload, a useful number when hauling and not towing. Ridiculous when towing an Airstream using a capable, quality weight distribution hitch, we use the Cat scales and axle ratings.
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Old 07-26-2017, 12:06 PM   #16
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Let me throw my $.02 in. I upgraded from a 2012 F150 XLT with Ecoboost to a 2017 Lariat 4*4 with Ecoboost and 10 speed transmission. Just got back from my first tow of the Airstream with the new truck.

1. Mileage goes up. I get about 12 mpg with the Airstream compared to about 10.5. My normal mileage has gone up from about 17 mpg to around 19. I love the larger 36 gallon gas tank.

2. Watch for the dealer trying to sell you the plastic bed liner. Some of them require it because of the aluminum body. Doesn't make sense to me.

3. The 10 speed occasionally shifts a little rough, but overall it is a great addition.

4. I have the large sunroof and I think the tailgate step is pretty standard. Really don't use the sunroof in Texas from about May through October, too hot. Wouldn't do without the tailgate step.
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Old 07-26-2017, 12:47 PM   #17
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F150

Just bought f150 platinum super crew 3.5 ecoboost with about every option. Could do without sunroof and power running boards but that's how it came. Love the technology package great highway vehicle. Payload is 1549 pounds (my minimum was 1500 pounds). Tow a 23fb with measured hitch weight less than 600 pounds before WD.
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Old 07-26-2017, 01:02 PM   #18
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Quote:
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Just bought f150 platinum super crew 3.5 ecoboost with about every option. Could do without sunroof and power running boards but that's how it came. Love the technology package great highway vehicle. Payload is 1549 pounds (my minimum was 1500 pounds). Tow a 23fb with measured hitch weight less than 600 pounds before WD.
You are making me feel a lot better :-)
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Old 07-26-2017, 01:04 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by dkottum View Post
Expensive overthinking to underachieve.

If concerned about budget, keep it simple and reliable. Any modern half-ton truck with a tow package and V8 gas engine will take you and your 25' Airstream throughout America with ease. The difference in driving safety and comfort and weight management will be in the hitch system, spend a little extra money here and get the best possible setup.
Thanks guys, I've appreciated all your instructive posts on axle weights and Cat scales.
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Old 07-26-2017, 01:04 PM   #20
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To the OP

Dealership I'm at, F150KR with twin panel moonroof, side steps, technology package, 36 gal tank, BLIS, 3.55

Payload 1535lbs
VIN 1FTEW1EG9HFB46843

window sticker $65,340
Advertised discount $58,535
Great info, thank you!
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