Show us your small Tow Vehicle set-up

[mstephens]

Originally Posted by gmw photos

And not trying to divert attention away from Alan's current questions, but what have you all with Mark and his Chysler 300C ? He has not been back since Feb 5th. Has he hit the road with the A/S in tow behind the 300, and having so much fun that he can't even stop long enough to check in ..... ? ?

Thanks! See my "saga continues" thread. We had a busy time with other things and didn't get to the road test until last Friday.

I WISH we were off camping! But no, not yet. <sigh>

Hopefully soon. We want to go back to Death Valley, but only if the TV proves it can handle it.

[StreaminGuy]

Originally Posted by StreaminGuy

Obviously Alan has secured a tow vehicle that he is happy with but in line with this thread...My other tow vehicle is a '94 Buick Roadmaster Wagon, LT1 Corvette engine, 4L60, factory towing package, 2.93 Limited Slip, (this gear allows towing in 3rd gear). This vehicle has gotten a best of 24.7 MPG on regular unleaded while not towing. Pretty good MPG for a 4,480 lb car. This car is an OBD1 car, the '95 and '96's were OBDII and I've heard they get 26-27 MPG. They are great and very well built cars. Mine is used 99.9% for towing as I usually pull it and the Airstream in the garage when returning from a trip and they stay.
I still see these cars pop up for sale with really low mileage on them. They are well built cars, have a boxed frame and my '94 stickered for over 30K when new...the most expensive car Buick made in '94...point is, Buick made them well. Another car that is inexpensive to insure due to it's age.

Thanks, G

I've had a couple of PM's regarding this...I think I previously stated at some point that the Roadmaster tow capacity was 5,000 lbs...it is actually 7,000 lbs. See below:

The Roadmaster was only delivered with the 5.7 l LT1, however, and such cars can be detected visually by a factory-installed stainless steel dual exhaust. The interior of the LT1 cars is distinguished by utilizing analog gauges rather than digital. However, unlike its stablemates, the 9C1 Caprice and Impala SS the Roadmaster was limited to 108 mph (174 km/h) due to the factory-fitted tires not being rated to run the 140 mph (230 km/h) plus the 9C1 and SS were capable of. The engine returns 17 mpg-US (14 L/100 km; 20 mpg-imp) city/25 mpg-US highway for a 4,200 lb (1,900 kg) full-sized car (4500 lb for the wagon), up 1 mpg-US city from the previous version.
The transmission from 1994–96 was changed from the 'analog' 700R4/4L60 to the electronically controlled version of the same, the 4L60E.
Ordered with the towing package, the 94-96 Roadmaster was advertised to tow up to 5000 pounds, although the Estate Wagon owner's manual extended that to 7,000 lbs when using a weight distributing hitch, dual sway controls, increasing the rear tire pressure to 35 psi and disabling the Electronic Level Control.[7] The tow package added 2.93 gears and a limited slip differential, heavy duty cooling system including oil and transmission coolers, and a factory installed self leveling rear suspension consisting of air shocks, a height sensor between the rear axle and body and an on-board air compressor. The most distinctive feature was the combination of one conventional fan driven mechanically from the engine alongside of one electric fan, offset to the left (non-towpack cars came with two electric fans).

[andreasduess]

I would love to own one of these old wagons. Not as a daily driver, but as a holiday tow vehicle. I love the look of these.

[JustSomeGuy]

Here's another minivan. "Small" is a relative term. When comparing a minvan to a 1 ton diesel dually, the minivan is small. I had a 2005 Chevy Astro minivan (factory rated to tow 5400#), but decided to go to something newer and more fuel efficient. After discovering the success Can-Am RV has been having with Dodge Grand Caravans and Chrysler Town & Country minvans, I decided to get one as well.

Last week I picked up my very luxurious 2012 Chrysler Town & Country Touring-L, factory rated to tow 3500# but it has the "Can-AM Special" reinforced hitch, sway control and weight distribution along with a factory transmission cooler. Today I picked up my 1990 Airstream Excella 25 (5100# dry). The drive home was almost 3 hours and included some small to moderate hills. Once I got the hang of manually shifting to 4th gear, it pulled up the hills nicely. It's a 6 speed automatic, but Can-AM suggested I tow in 5th gear. So far so good - hope it holds up just as well on steeper mountain hills like in the Rockies which I will be going through soon.

I like that I get a nice luxury interior with an understated exterior for a reasonable price. Fuel economy is much better than in my former Chevy Astro (which had a bigger engine and was less aerodynamic). Andy at Can-Am had also suggested two sedans as good possible choices - a Chrysler 300 and an automatic Passat TDI, which is extremely fuel efficient with its small but torquey turbo diesel engine. Classed as a mid-size car, I think most people would consider it a small car when looked upon as a tow vehicle. Although it has the same engine as the Jetta TDI, the Passat has a better, wider and longer stance. In the end, I decided I just could not live without a van, so the Town & Country won out. Some people don't consider today's minivans small, but to someone driving a 1 ton diesel dually pickup it is!

[StreaminGuy]

Originally Posted by JustSomeGuy

Here's another minivan. "Small" is a relative term. When comparing a minvan to a 1 ton diesel dually, the minivan is small. I had a 2005 Chevy Astro minivan (factory rated to tow 5400#), but decided to go to something newer and more fuel efficient. After discovering the success Can-Am RV has been having with Dodge Grand Caravans and Chrysler Town & Country minvans, I decided to get one as well.

Last week I picked up my very luxurious 2012 Chrysler Town & Country Touring-L, factory rated to tow 3500# but it has the "Can-AM Special" reinforced hitch, sway control and weight distribution along with a factory transmission cooler. Today I picked up my 1990 Airstream Excella 25 (5100# dry). The drive home was almost 3 hours and included some small to moderate hills. Once I got the hang of manually shifting to 4th gear, it pulled up the hills nicely. It's a 6 speed automatic, but Can-AM suggested I tow in 5th gear. So far so good - hope it holds up just as well on steeper mountain hills like in the Rockies which I will be going through soon.

I like that I get a nice luxury interior with an understated exterior for a reasonable price. Fuel economy is much better than in my former Chevy Astro (which had a bigger engine and was less aerodynamic). Andy at Can-Am had also suggested two sedans as good possible choices - a Chrysler 300 and an automatic Passat TDI, which is extremely fuel efficient with its small but torquey turbo diesel engine. Classed as a mid-size car, I think most people would consider it a small car when looked upon as a tow vehicle. Although it has the same engine as the Jetta TDI, the Passat has a better, wider and longer stance. In the end, I decided I just could not live without a van, so the Town & Country won out. Some people don't consider today's minivans small, but to someone driving a 1 ton diesel dually pickup it is!

Good looking (and nice) combo! I like how it matches your Airstream! I recently bought an Apache popup that I'm going to redo and I can't decide what color to paint it as I'll be towing it with a number of different vehicles.

G

[carl2591]

Originally Posted by JustSomeGuy

Here's another minivan. "Small" is a relative term. When comparing a minvan to a 1 ton diesel dually, the minivan is small. I had a 2005 Chevy Astro minivan (factory rated to tow 5400#), but decided to go to something newer and more fuel efficient. After discovering the success Can-Am RV has been having with Dodge Grand Caravans and Chrysler Town & Country minvans, I decided to get one as well.

Last week I picked up my very luxurious 2012 Chrysler Town & Country Touring-L, factory rated to tow 3500# but it has the "Can-AM Special" reinforced hitch, sway control and weight distribution along with a factory transmission cooler. Today I picked up my 1990 Airstream Excella 25 (5100# dry). The drive home was almost 3 hours and included some small to moderate hills. Once I got the hang of manually shifting to 4th gear, it pulled up the hills nicely. It's a 6 speed automatic, but Can-AM suggested I tow in 5th gear. So far so good - hope it holds up just as well on steeper mountain hills like in the Rockies which I will be going through soon.

be interesting to see MPG towing vs non towing and how it handles the long 7% pulls you get out west.. I checked door sticker on one and they have a 9K GVWA?. i have a e-250 van that only shows 8600 GVWA on the door for that. so it seem a mini van is bigger than my e-250.

Wish they would not call them "mini vans".. my wife hates that name.. wonder if we could call them "High Performance Multi Occupant Vehicle. or HPMOV... " I like it...



or HPMOTV... High Performance Multi Occupant Tow Vehicle,

who knows... good deal and thanks for sharing..

[m.hony]

Originally Posted by m.hony

I saw an excursion today.
First time I have seen one in a month.
I was kinda sorta surprised, like ,"Wow! There's an Excursion! And it's clean, too! All Armor-All'ed down and everything!"
How many thousands of Suburbans have I seen in the same month?

I saw another Excursion today. It was really sharp. Nice paint job, big chrome wheels, lift kit.Look 2 cars shead of me.

[mstephens]

JustSomeGuy,

Nice looking setup you have their. I have the 300 I am trying to get ready. I'll be interested to know how you do after a few tows. Be sure to stop back and report if you can. I also followed Andy's advice, but I am 3000 miles away and didn't have an "Andy" to do the work!

[andreasduess]

Originally Posted by carl2591

be interesting to see MPG towing vs non towing and how it handles the long 7% pulls you get out west.. I checked door sticker on one and they have a 9K GVWA?. i have a e-250 van that only shows 8600 GVWA on the door for that. so it seem a mini van is bigger than my e-250.

My Ody has a Gross Weight of 5707lbs, I think the GC is pretty close to that. 9k strikes me as high.

[JustSomeGuy]

I haven't had the van long enough to have any real numbers on fuel economy, both when towing and when not towing. So far I've only gone through one and a half tanks of gas. But I can say that when not towing, it's very fuel efficient - much better than I expected, and even when towing, it appears to get better fuel economy than my former 2005 Chevy Astro did driving solo. If this keeps up, I'll be really impressed!

A 3/4 ton diesel pickup would certainly be more robust, powerful and torquey. That would certainly help in driving through the Rockies, and no doubt in all other towing. But my Town & Country minivan should pull through - albeit struggling a bit more but it will get there. At Can Am, they took a previous generation Town & Country to Colorado, with 4 passengers and their cargo, towing a 28 foot Airstream and they made it there and back just fine. So I'm sure with just me and the dog and my 25 foot Airstream Excella, I'll be fine too. They said I could even tow a larger trailer. I don't know. Maybe. Maybe once I get some more towing experience. If it weren't for Can Am's experience and good reputation, I probably would have bought a 3/4 ton diesel pickup or a Suburban, or more than likely a full size Ford or Chevy diesel cargo van or 15 passenger van. Way more vehicle than I need or want to drive daily.

This Town & Country minivan is my one and only vehicle. I wanted one vehicle that could serve as a tow vehicle, be a daily driver when not towing (and not be too large and cumbersome, especially when parking in some of those newer parking lots made for compact cars), with the space and versatility I've gotten accustomed to with previous minivans AND that returns decent fuel economy - both when towing and when not towing. This van seems to fit the bill. And yes, now that "minivans" have grown in size from what they used to be in the 1980s, the name "minivan" seems wrong. But they're still smaller than full size vans. Not that a Mazda5 could tow my Airstream (but maybe a smaller Bambi), the Mazda5, with sliding rear side doors is the one of the few vehicles small enough that can claim to be a "minivan". Although some people call it a "microvan."

When I was getting my 2012 Chrysler Town & Country, I had decided to narrow it down to the T&C or a Dodge Grand Caravan (which I could have bought new for less, but the base model without all the goodies). As such, I could pick any color. I chose silver so it would match the Airstream and it's a good generic color so I can just blend in with the crowd (when not towing the Airstream). And light enough so it won't get hot in the hot summer sun if I believe that theory.

I plan on heading out west in March if possible, and if not in March then April. I was supposed to be leaving about this time but several things have come up that have delayed the departure date. But once I get out west, I'll be sure to report back on how the trip went.

[Chuck]

Have you driven it in any snow, yet? How's it do?

(I was thinking 'minivan' for our next tv; it'll be the wife's daily driver, though, and she's now saying "I want AWD". ).

[ggoat!!!]

2006 Chevrolet 6spd LS2 400hp SSR and 2006 Airstream International Bambi 75th Anniversary Prototype built by David Winick:

[andreasduess]

Originally Posted by Chuck

Have you driven it in any snow, yet? How's it do?

(I was thinking 'minivan' for our next tv; it'll be the wife's daily driver, though, and she's now saying "I want AWD". ).

Not a GC, but I am constantly surprised how well our 2WD Odyssey does in winter. Put a good set of snow tires on and it goes anywhere. If your wife insists on AWD, there's always the Toyota Sienna.

[Ahab]

ggoat, great rig!

[JustSomeGuy]

Originally Posted by Chuck

Have you driven it in any snow, yet? How's it do?

(I was thinking 'minivan' for our next tv; it'll be the wife's daily driver, though, and she's now saying "I want AWD". ).

With the 2012 Chrysler Town & Country, I've only driven in light snow. There was a bit on the ground from the last snowfall. It did pretty well. The traction control kicks in and keeps things under control. My first time with the trailer, on the test drive with someone from Can-Am RV in the passenger seat, I pulled away from a stop on a totally ice covered, lumpy parking lot and had a bit of trouble getting going with normal pressure on the gas pedal. But feathering it lightly got me going. I've got Goodyear Assurance CS TripleTred tires now. They're SUV rated tires (could not find any XL rated tires in my size). They're supposedly all season tires that better than average in light snow, with a snowflake symbol (but the not the mountain and snowflake symbol that would be for a true winter tire). The original tires were cheapie OEM Kumho KH16 with a bit of wear on the edges, but still decent tread otherwise. Even they were OK in snow with the traction control, but the Goodyear Assurance CS TripleTred seem even better. Note that I got the "CS" version. The non-CS version is for coupes and sedans, the CS version is the SUV rated version.

I should also note that I used to drive a Dodge Grand Caravan (same, current generation, also with traction control) and with OEM Kumho all-season (I call them 3 season) tires. And this was in the snow belt. As long as you drive sensibly, don't speed, floor it, take corners fast, etc, you'll be fine. But if you live in, or often drive to areas with more significant snow, I'd definitely recommend a dedicated winter tire for the winter months. Makes a huge difference. If you'll be in urban/suburban type areas, usually a "snow" tire is better, with wider gaps between the tread to bite into snow.

If you drive more in rural areas with icy roads, then an "ice" tire would be better. I once made the mistake of getting Michelin X-Ice (first generation) and found they were no better in snow than an all-season tire. But they were better than average on ice. Even better if you get a studdable winter tire and put studs in in if you think you'll need ice traction. Though studs will wear down and actually give less traction on road surfaces without ice. It's like metal sliding on asphalt.

Having said that, my best vehicle for winter driving was with full time 4-wheel drive, manual transmission and awesome Nokian Hakkapellita winter tires. But, you can't always have everything. Life is full of compromises. For 95% of the time, I think a minivan with traction control will be fine for me. If I lived somewhere else and my needs were different, I would choose a different vehicle. Otherwise it would be great if there were a V6 turbo diesel minivan with full time 4wd that gave amazing fuel economy, winter traction, trailer towing capability, lots of interior space yet small enough to fit in the newer compact car parking spaces. I haven't yet found a vehicle like that. But a mainstream minivan should be just fine. I really like the full stow & go seating in my 2012 Chrysler Town & Country. And being a 2 year old domestic, a good amount of depreciation already occurred so the price was good. Quality control and fit & finish is leaps and bounds ahead of what it was 10-15 years ago. I think most, if not all vehicles made in the last few years will have traction control, stability control and ABS - all good helpers for winter driving. Unless you live in an area that gets routinely hammered with snow, then maybe a 4x4 3/4 ton diesel pickup or Suburban would be a better choice.

Having said that, I noticed a few All-Wheel-Drive Toyota Sienna minvans out there, but they tend to a bit pricier because of it being a Toyota AND because it has AWD. But if your budget allows it, and you think you need AWD, it would probably be a great choice, and I hear they work well as tow vehicles too.

[Chuck]

Originally Posted by JustSomeGuy

..But, you can't always have everything. Life is full of compromises. ...

Yeah, I know. Thats the problem.
My vehicular needs are kind of complex. I have 500' driveway that meanders through the woods, and then curves and goes uphill steeply for the last 100' or so. That's the thing that freaks out the wife the most. It can be quite treacherous in the winter. Usually, it isn't a problem for a fwd car to zip up the hill, but sometimes you can slip and slide a bit. I don't know the actual "grade" of the slope, but to give you an idea, my pickup can *not* make it up the hill in 2wd, if it isn't bare/dry pavement. If there's any ice, or a light coating of snow, forget it. Pop it into 4x4, and sure, no problem-o. This is my current tow vehicle, but it is old and ratty, and the wife gets stuck driving it most of the time (mom-duties), because I have to commute 25 miles to work--so I have a fuel efficient sedan for that. So she gets stuck with the low-mpg behemoth, which is a terrible grocery-getter, actually, and she hates it. (oh, and to back the trailer up that same slope to the spot where I like to park it in the summer--gotta use low-range. I overheated the tranny once doing it in 2wd.).
So, she has declared that whatever its replacement is going to be, it shall not be a pick-em-up truck.
But--I need to plow the driveway, and tow the trailer. That leaves very few options, (a vehicle that can do both, be a good mom-mobile, and not be a pickup), and each of them is $$$.
So a few months ago, we decided to go to a 2-vehicle solution. I bought a 15-year old jeep that was in good repair, and had a nice plow on it. Cheap. So, take that job off the list, and you open up the door to a whole lot of not-so-rediculously-expensive options. (particularly if you're not married to tow ratings).
I could get a gently used T&C (just like yours; I like to buy them like that, too--pre-depreciated), plus my $6k jeep, and still be 10-15K ahead of a full-sized suv of similar age. Plus, I have a spare vehicle to use if one of the daily drivers is in the shop.
So anyway...if you add AWD to the list of requirements, its bumps up the price a bit. If it was purely up to me, I'd go mini-van and put snows on in the winter. Plus, the "mini's" blow-away all of the other candidates in terms of cargo space.

[JustSomeGuy]

Those are quite a list of specific requirements. Besides a minivan, I'd say perhaps a FWD or in your case, ideally AWD crossover or SUV might also be a consideration. At one point, I was considering a Chevy Traverse. There are at least two members on this forum towing with a Traverse and seem happy with them, though I forget their usernames and what size Airstreams they have. Some of the SUVs have gone Crossover now, like the Nissan Pathfinder (which I call the Mallfinder, lol) and Ford Explorer (some people call the Ford Exploder). But all joking aside, I think those are both fine vehicles, but they've shed their rugged SUV image now that they've gone Crossover.

Otherwise, I think a minvan would also work well for you, and could probably be bought for an even better price, especially if "pre-depreciated." I think most, if not all of them in the last few years come with traction control. Coupled with some decent winters should make a pretty good compromise. A Sienna AWD will cost a bit more. I briefly considered one but was priced out of my budget.

Five hundred feet is a long driveway! Is all of it paved? If it is, and it's due for a re-paving soon, maybe you could install heating elements on the steepest part to melt the snow there. I have no idea how much that would cost or if its economically feasible. Another option is to hire someone to clear the snow for you, but that might also be outrageously expensive. We pay over $400 per year to get our small 4 car driveway done here in the suburbs. I can't imagine how much a 500 foot meandering steep driveway would cost. Might be worth the $6000 you paid for the used Jeep, plus, like you said, it gives you a back up vehicle when you need one. Could the Jeep tow the Airstream too?

Do you take the Airstream out in the winter too? Maybe to go to Florida for a week or two to escape winter? If so, that also adds the challenge of getting your 23 foot trailer up that driveway. Sounds like a nice place though, lots of privacy I'm sure! Do you have a space at the top or near the top to turn around? Or do you have to back up the trailer part of that way? Hopefully not the whole 500 feet, lol!

[JustSomeGuy]

Originally Posted by ggoat!!!

2006 Chevrolet 6spd LS2 400hp SSR and 2006 Airstream International Bambi 75th Anniversary Prototype built by David Winick:

That's a good looking set up! I'd drive it!

I bet you get a lot of looks with that - either one on their own, the Airstream or the SSR is distinctive enough, but couple the two of them together and it's a real looker!

[Chuck]

Oh, it gets better. (just didn't want to go too far off topic).

500'--only paved on the last 100' (the hill and parking area up top). Even the super-rich wouldn't ever try to heat that much driveway...ridiculously expensive.

Not much room up top to maneuver. There is room for 2 cars to park perpendicularly to the road, at the end. just enough room to back out, turn around, and be pointed down the road...barely enough space to do that with a full-sized pickup and a plow. (one of the reasons I got the jeep--super-short wheelbase makes it very maneuverable--and it has been a "dream" to plow the driveway this year, due to that...but no, no way you could tow a camper with this; it barely moves itself. I could use it to "park" the camper, but not tow it on the road).
I did pay someone else to do it for a couple of seasons. It really didn't work out. Its not an easy push, and they can't spend too much time, but mostly, there isn't anywhere for them to put the snow. If one of my vehicles isn't the one doing the plowing, it would be in the way of the only place to put the snow.
I keep the trailer near the street in the winter; there is a little cut-out in the woods that is just big enough to tuck the trailer into, parallel with the driveway. Never gone south with it. (one of the problems with that idea: what if we get a blizzard while I'm gone? who is going to deal with it? It actually happened one year, when I was paying the plow-guys--wife and I took a cruise to the Caribbean, and there was a blizzard. A tree came down across the driveway--plow guys couldn't get in. My dad and brother came by to check on the place, and found this--they managed to get the tree cut up, but couldn't' do much with the rest of the snow that the plow guys couldn't get to--they managed to cut a path that was just wide enough for 1 car to get through. quite the ordeal).
But in the summer, Yes, I back the trailer up that 500' to park it near the house. I call it "the aircraft carrier landing of trailer parking".
300' back straight, 90-degree curve, then another 90 up the steep slope, and another 90 to back it into the parking spot, with a stone wall along the blind-side.
I'll post a link of a video of me plowing it...not a good view of the top/parking area, but the rest of it gives you a pretty good picture of what I'm dealing with.

[gmw photos]

Chuck, your driveway situation might be a good example of the idea of a front mounted hitch on the Jeep to take the A/S up the driveway to it's parking spot.