Sequoia owners--I need advice, please!

[nomadleslie]

Hi,

We have a 30' 2002 Classic (with S/O) and we tow it with a Nissan Armada. After years of hard work, the Armada needs to be an around-town vehicle only, and we are considering a Toyota Sequoia. Does anyone have any experience towing an AS with a Sequoia? Is there a better/different vehicle you would recommend and if so, why?

(Please note: we have 4 children, so the vehicle we choose has to both tow the Airstream AND have seating capacity to tow our kids.)

Thanks in advance!

[Landrum]

I think there are a few folks on AF that are happy with their Sequoias. I had a 2011 Sequoia that I used to tow our 2011 23FB and our current 2014 25FB. I traded up to a 2017 F150 and I'm very pleased. I test drove a F150 (and a GMC ) over a weekend and took my AS for a test tow, and it was immediately obvious I would no longer use the Sequoia as a tow vehicle. The towing experience in the trucks was much less stressful. Fortunately we only have three kids so the F150 works for us. In fact the back seat of the F150 has more room than the Sequoia.

[Landrum]

I hit send too soon. See if you can test drive a Sequoia overnight, and take your AS for a spin.
Also.....and I hate to bring this up since there are thousands of post already covering the topic.....but you will exceed the payload on the Sequoia.

[slowmover]

And contact Andrew Thomson at Can Am RV. He's expert, and ilconsiders advising on TV/TT combinations sort of a hobby. That dealership has set up more than 10,000 rigs. No one knows it better.

[pt.reyesfan]

I tried towing our 2016 Classic with our Sequoia. (I have posted about the experience on another thread.) I was not happy. Very hard not to go over payload capacity. Ended up getting a 1 ton truck. (3/4 ton would have worked.)

[overlander63]

Originally Posted by nomadleslie

Hi,

We have a 30' 2002 Classic (with S/O) and we tow it with a Nissan Armada. After years of hard work, the Armada needs to be an around-town vehicle only, and we are considering a Toyota Sequoia. Does anyone have any experience towing an AS with a Sequoia? Is there a better/different vehicle you would recommend and if so, why?

(Please note: we have 4 children, so the vehicle we choose has to both tow the Airstream AND have seating capacity to tow our kids.)

Thanks in advance!

What's the GVW of the Classic? What's the tow capacity of the Sequoia?

[franklyfrank]

Originally Posted by Landrum

I hit send too soon. See if you can test drive a Sequoia overnight, and take your AS for a spin.
Also.....and I hate to bring this up since there are thousands of post already covering the topic.....but you will exceed the payload on the Sequoia.

Don't be shy about it. Payload is the single most important issue to consider. You can move and tow any Air stream with a Honda Civic.
Carrying the tongue weight, passengers and the general stuff we all lug around is another matter altogether. The "Tail Waging the Dog" happens with an overloaded TV and that's when trouble begins.
There are untold number of people who bought into the notion " we can make it work " only to find out it doesn't work all that well and were forced into moving up to a more suitable TV. Everyone starts out wanting to make it work with the smallest TV possible. IMHO that is the wrong approach. For safe towing one should chose a TV that will get the job done safely and than add 20 percent for additional margin of safety..

[Urbanologist]

Contact Andy at CanAm in London, Ontario CANADA. He directed the setup of my AS (34' Panamerica) with 2010 Tundra w/short bed. The before and after controlling of our AS was remarkable!! What you are going to give up by using a Seqouia is room for RV "stuff" - really! I have both versions of the Tundra platform (Seqouia being like a refined sister). While you'll ENJOY the relative luxury of the high end Tundra models (Limited/Platinum), You'll be really trashing the Seqouia interior carting RV gear.

[Scott59]

You need to be aware that Toyotas in general have weak brakes and the Sequioa is notorious for soft weak brakes.
I have a 2008 with 130k miles, never towed anything but kids. The rotors will warp in about 20,000 miles or less when worked very hard. I couldn't imagine pulling my 30' 2017 International with my Seqioua. I tow with a GMC duramax diesel HD pickup. Much much more towing and braking ability.
Good luck.

[slowmover]

Originally Posted by franklyfrank

Don't be shy about it. Payload is the single most important issue to consider. You can move and tow any Air stream with a Honda Civic.
Carrying the tongue weight, passengers and the general stuff we all lug around is another matter altogether. The "Tail Waging the Dog" happens with an overloaded TV and that's when trouble begins.
There are untold number of people who bought into the notion " we can make it work " only to find out it doesn't work all that well and were forced into moving up to a more suitable TV. Everyone starts out wanting to make it work with the smallest TV possible. IMHO that is the wrong approach. For safe towing one should chose a TV that will get the job done safely and than add 20 percent for additional margin of safety..

One wants bad advice devoid of fact, there it is.

Payload is not ever the determinant in choosing the best tow vehicle for family vacationers, inherent stability is what matters most.

Being stuck on a particular vehicle is a problem. It might be that another in the same class is better, or it may be that a different design is altogether better.

In some cases, an entire class is to be avoided. Last resort, unless solo business miles also dictate choice.

OP, were I to argue to you that a vehicle more likely to be the source of an accident, and more likely to result in serious injury to you and your family, you'd think me daft. But that's the quoted advice in a nutshell.

Contact Thomson. Customers or folks looking for advice in your situation are his bread & butter. He posts here as Andrew_T. He also consults to Airstream and SAE on towing.

Take a little time and do the best job. The best advisor is where to go.

The hitch lash-up is what matters. 90% get it wrong. The ignorant don't fix the problem they have with this, they go and buy an even worse TV.

.

[smlbob]

We tow our FC27' 2015 with a 2015 tow equipped Sequoia. I have over 30,000 miles on the combo, including a trip west through Utah and Colorado, and it has performed very well. Mileage is about 11 mpg overall. We use an Equalizer WD hitch. I did add rear air lifts to the vehicle, and it rides level. And the Sequoia is a great vehicle for other times....not the most economical for sure, but since it serves two purposes we live with it. One drawback is the rear lift gate won't clear the trailer when hooked up, but the roll down back window and judicious packing lets me manage.

[Tom_T]

We have some similar questions to the OP, since I'm also considering a Sequoyah (yes Toyota, that's how it's supposed to be spelled) as an alternative to the Porsche Cayenne S (V8), even if it's a bit larger than I'd prefer for our tight conditions at home/driveway & street.

The Toyotas are usually pretty reliable, & parts are usually significantly less that Porsche parts .... but is the Sequoyah as reliable & low maintenance as the other cars/trucks?

The above weak brakes & warping rotors at 20K miles comment gives me pause!
.... What's the problem there??

Also, do you need to remove the spare tire from under the rear storage position, in order to have clearance for the forward end of the tow bar or Hensley/PP stinger?

I ask because with the smaller mid-sized 4Runner & its Lexus GX46/47 cousin only has about a 3" long factory hitch receiver tube & only 1/2"-1" clear to the spare tire. When I looked at the Sequoyah hitch/spare set-up, it too looks like a short tube & tight to the spare.

Lastly, what are the key towing specs for the recent 2011-17 Sequoyahs with the 5.7L V8?
> Note to OP, you'll want to consider all of these in your evaluation.

GTWR - Tow Weight Rating
HWR - Hitch Wt. Rating
GVWR - Gross Vehicle Wt. Rating (TV - Only)
GCWR - Gross Combined Vehicles Wt. Rating (TV + TT)
GAWR - F - Gross Axle Wt. Rating - Front (TV)
GAWR - R - Gross Axle Wt. Rating - Rear (TV)

> Note to OP, the above includes Full Fuel & other Fluids + 150 lb. Driver (add for heavier), so you'll need to add for the other 4 passengers (& if you're over 150#), plus all the baggage & stuff a family takes on trips! Some of this cargo can be handled by loading in the trailer properly balanced & secured, up to the trailer's GTWR.

.

In our case, we're only towing a vintage kin Avion T20 which is only about 3000-3500# wet & loaded, depending upon how much we load in or on the 20' class trailer. It's already equipped with a Hensley Cub & Tekonsha Prodigy RF brake controller, since we've been renting TVs since we got the Avion in 2013. The Cayenne is rated to tow 7700+ l s. with 700+/- HW, & only the GVWR, GCVWR & GVAR-F/R are a management issue when we take more than my wife & I when towing (e.g.: guest[s], grandkid[s], etc.); as well as really good brakes, power & stiff suspension; & it's smaller mid-size actually fits in our driveway.

.

Thanx in advance for any additional input, which I'm sure will help the OP too!

Cheers!
Tom
///////

[Andrew T]

Which hitch system are you using with the 30 Slide?
If you can wait three months I think the 2018 Expedition might will be a better choice. Another option is a Dodge Durango RT. The Durango needs a stronger receiver however.

[BoMan]

My wife and I have a 2014 International Sterling 27' and have successfully towed it cross country and back twice! I keep pretty accurate records on our travels, and we have logged in over 20,000 travel miles with our vehicle. The 2008 Sequoia has 180,000 miles on it and except for the starter motor going out on me, I have had no issues towing whatsoever. We travel with 4 dogs, who do not require all of the "stuff" your children would require, and we only carry the "necessities". No portable generator or other exceptionally heavy stuff. The Sequoia has a 5.7 liter 8 cylinder that seems more than capable for the task. Hope this info helps in your decision.

[pteck]

Originally Posted by Tom_T

We have some similar questions to the OP, since I'm also considering a Sequoyah (yes Toyota, that's how it's supposed to be spelled) as an alternative to the Porsche Cayenne S (V8), even if it's a bit larger than I'd prefer for our tight conditions at home/driveway & street.

The Toyotas are usually pretty reliable, & parts are usually significantly less that Porsche parts .... but is the Sequoyah as reliable & low maintenance as the other cars/trucks?

The above weak brakes & warping rotors at 20K miles comment gives me pause!
.... What's the problem there??

Also, do you need to remove the spare tire from under the rear storage position, in order to have clearance for the forward end of the tow bar or Hensley/PP stinger?

I ask because with the smaller mid-sized 4Runner & its Lexus GX46/47 cousin only has about a 3" long factory hitch receiver tube & only 1/2"-1" clear to the spare tire. When I looked at the Sequoyah hitch/spare set-up, it too looks like a short tube & tight to the spare.

Lastly, what are the key towing specs for the recent 2011-17 Sequoyahs with the 5.7L V8?
> Note to OP, you'll want to consider all of these in your evaluation.

GTWR - Tow Weight Rating
HWR - Hitch Wt. Rating
GVWR - Gross Vehicle Wt. Rating (TV - Only)
GCWR - Gross Combined Vehicles Wt. Rating (TV + TT)
GAWR - F - Gross Axle Wt. Rating - Front (TV)
GAWR - R - Gross Axle Wt. Rating - Rear (TV)

> Note to OP, the above includes Full Fuel & other Fluids + 150 lb. Driver (add for heavier), so you'll need to add for the other 4 passengers (& if you're over 150#), plus all the baggage & stuff a family takes on trips! Some of this cargo can be handled by loading in the trailer properly balanced & secured, up to the trailer's GTWR.

.

In our case, we're only towing a vintage kin Avion T20 which is only about 3000-3500# wet & loaded, depending upon how much we load in or on the 20' class trailer. It's already equipped with a Hensley Cub & Tekonsha Prodigy RF brake controller, since we've been renting TVs since we got the Avion in 2013. The Cayenne is rated to tow 7700+ l s. with 700+/- HW, & only the GVWR, GCVWR & GVAR-F/R are a management issue when we take more than my wife & I when towing (e.g.: guest[s], grandkid[s], etc.); as well as really good brakes, power & stiff suspension; & it's smaller mid-size actually fits in our driveway.

.

Thanx in advance for any additional input, which I'm sure will help the OP too!

Cheers!
Tom
///////

Tom, if you're okay considering more premium vehicles, I'd encourage you to checkout the LX570, and its stablemate, the Land Cruiser. Seats 8. Strong AC with 4zone temps. It tows my 27FB with aplomb, having excellent stability and power, yet plush ride and agility. Doing this with an Equilizer hitch.

And of course the requisite reliability, and even more so considering this platform is tested to 250k/25yr service life under grueling 3rd world country conditions. Same 5.7L drivetrain, but Japan sourced and built for that extra edge in quality.

A number of nicities with this platform... It has a split rear hatch/tailgate which clears the trailer nicely. Full time AWD with low range for tractibility and maneuverability when backing into camp or boondocking. Mass against the trailer at 6250lbs.

AHC hydraulic suspension works incredibly well with the Equilizer. I can lift the suspension 2"+ on demand, relaxing the WD bars to negotiate transitions or ramps, negating that hitches primary weekness. Yet it also lowers 20mm at fwy speeds to increase weight transfer and sway stability when it's really needed. Not to mention the hitch-up conveniences adjustable height offers.

[pteck]

In regards to brakes, I'd wager the individual did not setup his brake balance right. In my miles of towing, braking is no harder on the tow vehicle than solo. I actually find I'm easier on the brakes given the lower towing speeds and more measured application.

Adjusted correctly, the trailer brakes stop the trailer. Tow vehicle brakes stop the tow vehicle. Hills should see judicious use of low gears.

To be sure, the tow vehicle brakes need to be capable in an emergency situation should the trailer brakes fail for any reason.

[Tom_T]

Originally Posted by pteck

Tom, if you're okay considering more premium vehicles, I'd encourage you to checkout the LX570, and its stablemate, the Land Cruiser. Seats 8. Strong AC with 4zone temps. It tows my 27FB with aplomb, having excellent stability and power, yet plush ride and agility. Doing this with an Equilizer hitch.

And of course the requisite reliability, and even more so considering this platform is tested to 250k/25yr service life under grueling 3rd world country conditions. Same 5.7L drivetrain, but Japan sourced and built for that extra edge in quality.

A number of nicities with this platform... It has a split rear hatch/tailgate which clears the trailer nicely. Full time AWD with low range for tractibility and maneuverability when backing into camp or boondocking. Mass against the trailer at 6250lbs.

AHC hydraulic suspension works incredibly well with the Equilizer. I can lift the suspension 2"+ on demand, relaxing the WD bars to negotiate transitions or ramps, negating that hitches primary weekness. Yet it also lowers 20mm at fwy speeds to increase weight transfer and sway stability when it's really needed. Not to mention the hitch-up conveniences adjustable height offers.

Hi pteck,

We are looking at the Porsche Cayenne - so the Gland Bruiser/LX are in the same category & are closer to the Cayenne's mid-size, plus we have friends with them that like them (but who don't tow).

So I am keeping an eye out for them locally, but they're fewer & farther between than either the Cayenne S or Sequoya.

However, I don't want air suspension for any choice, due to long term maintenance & parts availability concerns, since I keep my cars 20+ years.

Thanx for the input.
Tom
///////

[pteck]

Originally Posted by Tom_T

Hi pteck,

We are looking at the Porsche Cayenne - so the Gland Bruiser/LX are in the same category & are closer to the Cayenne's mid-size, plus we have friends with them that like them (but who don't tow).

So I am keeping an eye out for them locally, but they're fewer & farther between than either the Cayenne S or Sequoya.

However, I don't want air suspension for any choice, due to long term maintenance & parts availability concerns, since I keep my cars 20+ years.

Thanx for the input.
Tom
///////

Gland Bruiser is an apt description. It might seem mid-size in some dimensions due to its off-road pedigree, it's certainly more than full size in build and strength, if curb weight is any clue. Hence my recommendation based on your stated home/driveway/towing needs. The bigger Sequoia is a fine choice as well.

While there are those that tout the benefits of unibody strength for towing, I'm of the mind that frame based vehicles are superior for durability. Too many conflate unibody stiffness for durability. They are very different qualities. Which is why professional and commercial load handling platforms are always frame based. Frame flex is actually a benefit for durability. Making a very stiff platform perform with long term durability take engineering and more mass than regular vehicles are willing to be burdened with (e.g. Gland Bruiser ).

AHC in the LX570 application is not for everyone. Though I'd encourage you to learn more about it as it's not failure prone "air suspension" as applied to many vehicles including Range Rovers and Porsches. Toyota and Lexus after all, have much higher reliability targets than most vehicles, especially for this platform.

For the normal suspension Land Cruiser, and Sequoia/Tundra to an extent, I would highly recommend springs with higher spring rates if towing near the upper end of the spectrum. This is not often talked about on these boards, but it's a very viable way to increase weight handling capacities. This is especially true of the LC (and 4Runner/GX), where the stock suspension has lower spring rates as it's primarily setup for off road articulation. There are actually formal GVWR upgrades in countries like Australia for the exact same platforms we have in the states, that consist of nothing more than uprated springs. With tires to match.

Andy modified cars to handle more capacities. No reason trucks and SUVs can't be tailored to do the same (within reason).

[nomadleslie]

Hi everyone,

First, a big fat THANK YOU for all these great responses. Our main concern with the Sequoia has been the towing capacity + brakes because the GVW on our Classic is around 8400 and the towing capacity on the Sequoia is only 7400.

BUT! We have consistently heard from several people the following: "the Sequoia can tow it, they just rate it low because of the brakes. However if your Airstream brakes are set right, this won't be a problem." Um, what?!? That didn't pass the smell test for us AT ALL (especially traveling with our 4 kids). I kept thinking, "that just cannot be right!" and my husband kept doing research because we just didn't believe it, which is why I turned to AirForums. (Btw, we were not hearing this from Toyota dealers trying to sell us a vehicle.)

More than one of you mentioned not only weak, soft breaks but warping rotors (who wants that to happen on a cross country trip in the middle of nowhere?), and maybe if we were traveling with a smaller AS (under 7,400 GVW) and fewer people it would be a different situation, but that's not the reality for us.

A few of you mentioned the Expedition. We have shied away from it because it has a longer wheel base than the Armada. While my husband has no problem getting the Armada + Airstream in and out of places, there have been times that we've had a few tight squeezes (like backing into a campsite on a tiny road with trees everywhere), so it's given me pause. But the Expedition can tow 9,400 lbs! So it's back on our research list, as is the new Armada because it, too, can tow our AS.

I really appreciate everyones input. I have read all these comments to my husband and we are checking the Sequoia off our list. Clearly it is not the TV for us.

Y'all are awesome!

[GettinAway]

I would double check on a Toyota forum about the brakes. I only noticed one post about the brakes, but I didn't read every post thoroughly. We've had several toyotas over the years. We keep them a long time (250,000 miles) we have warped one rotor over that time, and we've certainly never had any brake failures. If the sequoia is like my Tundra, and I suspect it is, you'll find it rides great, is very reliable, and rugged. My concern would be getting it set up properly with a weight distribution hitch, if I was going to pull a 30' AS. I haven't heard of anyone that's set up as many as Andy. I'm tempted to make an appointment and go by just to have him evaluate my set up, and I'm only pulling a 23'.