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Old 09-28-2010, 11:18 PM   #15
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One option would be to get a 27FB Flying Cloud instead of the 28. It is an inch longer then the 28 and the hitch weight is almost 200 pounds lighter according to the Airstream specs.

I tow with an 07 Tundra, but my trailer is vintage and much lighter.
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Old 09-29-2010, 12:34 AM   #16
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I just returned from the Alaska Caravan. There were three Tundras pulling 25 ft trailers. These trucks were doing just fine.

My observations plus discussion with one of the owners.(we ran together daily)

The engine with 6 spd tranny is great. My only negative is on bed load capacity with hitchweight on the towbar. I would put air shocks or helper springs on the truck. The weight distribution bars do their job but, the rear end is still going to be down a bit so your headlights are going to be too high.

A 28ft is not going to be much heavier. My truck is the gmc 2500 300hp 411rear 4 spd trans. I pull a 29 ft 1987 narrow body. 6500lbs on the wheels and 810 on the hitch. My buddies that I ran with daily had a gmc duramax allison crew cab and the crewmax toyota. The duramax allison would climb my rear on every hill and the Toyota was right behind him. I would trade all the electronics crap on my truck for a 6 speed trans. I know why gm finally went to the 6 spd. (they drove a Toyota and realized how bad they were going to get beat)

That truck will handle a 28ft just fine with a little attention to the rear and you will get 1.0 to 1.5 miles per gallon more.
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Old 09-29-2010, 12:38 AM   #17
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thanks everyone for your responses...

I have this feeling that if I go to a rally, I am going to see every possible combination of trailer and TV possible, but thats not to say they are all good ideas. I have this idea of being on a dirt road in alaska or canada and dont want to be underpowered, but I dont trust all these manf numbers either. For instance what would inland andy say....

WALTERO: a 25 ft trailer on a tacoma seems like a bit of a stretch to me for safety but thats not to say its more safe than a sedan like some people are doing. My numbers are estimates also so I may not really be inside of them once I load up

BOB: I was planning on a reese or equalizer hitch, my spreadsheets would never work without the WD hitch....I thought about an airsafe also, not so much for ride but to cushion the truck agains momentary heavy loadings on the hitch when going over a bump (certainly the actual hitch load goes up and down a lot when hitting a bump)

REDNAX: my weight on the truck scale is 6380 lbs with most everything in my truck, not including the hitch load. (I dont own trailer yet so those numbers are a guestimate). This weight was with me, a full tank of gas, the leer cap, bedrug, step boards, moonroof, computer, a pile of books and maps, 60 lbs of tools, and a few small items. I wouldnt add much unless it was people.

This leaves me about 900 lbs (the GVWR is 7200 lbs.) 750 lbs of this is the hitch (maybe more) that I have calculated. I calculated the fully loaded trailer at about 7200 lbs x 11% is about 792 lbs.

So that leaves me a bit of weight for a cheeseburger and some coffee!!

I’m afraid if I just hook it up and go I wont notice anything amiss unless there is trouble, or perhaps just wont really know for sure just whose numbers I am supposed to trust.

I guess what gene would say is that I am right at the limit, he seems to draw the line at the 27s which have a little lighter tongue load.....he has some nice posts

carl
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Old 09-29-2010, 01:09 AM   #18
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oops on the last post I meant that I took the hitch load as an average of two different possible scenarios on a spreadsheet, and got a number of 740 lbs. (2/3 rd of the actual hitch weight). One of those numbers used 11% as a guide for a fully loaded trailer on the hitch. In the post above my memory wasnt performing correctly the way I typed it in

thanks to others for their encouraging posts. I should at least try it out first......

and go to the scales......
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Old 09-29-2010, 01:40 AM   #19
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Carl28,

I have 28' int and I tow with 2007 tundra crewmax and have reece dual cam. It tows fine. I was too, worried about the payload, and I haven't weighted yet, but am sure I am close to the max. However, I will say this. I have towed through CA highway 1 winding roads and down to pismo beach on highway 101 without any worries. Don't worry about power. rear suspension does undulate over imperfections of the road, but that is typical of all TVs. use airbags to help the suspension and you should be fine. When I'm going 65 on a smooth surface, I don't even feel the AS in the back. There are a lot of good half-ton pickups out there, and out of those, Toyota is one of the most comfortable trucks to drive towing or not towing. Only problem that you will have is to fill up the tank every 200 miles because the gas tank is so small. good luck and pm me if you have more questions.

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Old 09-29-2010, 05:54 AM   #20
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I tow a 28 foot ccd with my crewmax and it does great. I have a hensley hitch. Used to have an excursion diesel, and while the tundra is less power, i find it tows just fine, especially once i figured out that it runs better to just give it the gas and get into the meatier part of the powerband. Now also have the sequoia and it does well also. I'd consider adding airbags befor e the add a leaf.my sequoia has the ride height leveling and it works well with the trailer.
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Old 09-29-2010, 07:58 AM   #21
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You have quickly discovered the limiting factor of ˝ ton vehicles; payload. Adding springs, air bags, etc does NOT change payload capacity.
A WD hitch does not decrease the amount of tongue weight either.
As you also commented; just because you can do something does not mean you should. Some Folks don’t mind loading to the max (or over) and may have got away with it for a trip or two.
But who wants to count every pound you place in the truck or AS every time you load up?
No one ever complains they have too much truck.
We load all kinds of crap on many of our trips; Mt bikes, kayaks, porta-bote w/outboard motor, fire wood. Heck I have 1000# in the truck before we hitch up or sit down. This would bury a ˝ ton.
You can travel light (no water, no waste, only 5 beers, etc) and worry about your load the entire drive.
Or you can buy the right vehicle, load up, and go.
This is no 16’ Bambi your talking about towing…get the right truck.

Take a look at an old thread from a while back; http://www.airforums.com/forums/f463...hip-39826.html

Good luck, be safe.
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Old 09-29-2010, 09:01 AM   #22
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A WD hitch does not decrease the amount of tongue weight either.
It dosen't change the static tongue weight but when you go to the weigh scale with the WDH installed you will see that the WDH does reduce the weight the trailer tongue has on the vehicle.
By moving a portion on the weight to the trailer axles you can pick up roughly 100 to 250 lbs of payload as it relates to the static tongue weight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillTex View Post

No one ever complains they have too much truck.
Actually many forks do complain about having too much truck! There are many many threads and reports of heavy duty trucks messing with the airstream structure. They also compain about the rough ride, noise and cost of operation in many cases.

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Originally Posted by BillTex View Post

You can travel light (no water, no waste, only 5 beers, etc) and worry about your load the entire drive.
Yada Yada Yada... For ten years we have been towing with everything we need plus water and waste and have "0" worries with load or drive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillTex View Post

We load all kinds of crap on many of our trips; Mt bikes, kayaks, porta-bote w/outboard motor, fire wood. Heck I have 1000# in the truck before we hitch up or sit down. This would bury a ˝ ton.
Yikes!!!! . In "your case" need a big truck. Agree 100%.

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Old 09-29-2010, 03:12 PM   #23
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We travel for months a a time with two bicycles and a small generator in the bed of our 2006 Tundra crew-cab pickup. The Airstream is loaded lightly with everything we need. (There are grocery stores, even beer stores, along the way.)

Unless you need "all kinds of crap" to travel, payload is a non-issue.

Doug K
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Old 09-29-2010, 03:30 PM   #24
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Unless you need "all kinds of crap" to travel, payload is a non-issue.

Doug K
When you violate payload...it is an issue...no matter how you do it...with "crap" or with tongue weight; Overweight is overweight...whether you are towing a 16' or a 30' slide, you still need the proper TV.
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Old 09-29-2010, 04:41 PM   #25
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Carl, I am unsure whether the Tundra can tow a 27 or 28 because the specs keep changing. The tongue weight for a 25' FB is now on the website: 837 lbs.; 27' FB, 791; 28, 976. The website does not say whether that is 2010 or 2011. For the 2008 models, the brochure gave tongue weights for the 25' FB, 720; 27 FB, 790; 28, 830. Both are without options and may or may not include propane in the tanks or the spare.

The differences mystify me. You could ask Airstream about this. The models are essentially the same, but they may have changed the options to include an anvil collection.

The only way you can be sure of tongue weight is to weigh it. To ask the dealer to do that may not go well with them as they would rather tell you something less than it is. Three years ago your local dealer tried to convince me I could tow any of these trailers with the 2002 Tundra I had then. We left shortly thereafter—the salesman went to answer the phone and after he didn't come back for 15 or 20 minutes, we left. I recommend looking at dealers in other states.

The weights of the trailer itself loaded (GVWR) haven't changed even though the tongue wt. has. The 25' FB and the 28' are the same—7,300 lbs. The 27' FB is 7,600. The Tundra would have no problem towing any of them as far as GVWR is concerned. It can scream up mountain roads and if you want to use enormous amounts of gas, you can go really, really fast.

Payload is the limiting factor for 1/2 ton trucks. The various Tundra models vary a lot. The Crewmax, because of the bigger cab, with 4WD and 5.7 L has less payload than my DoubleCab, but only by about 65 lbs. I believe Toyota specs on payload include a full gas tank.

It is often said that you should keep loads to 80% of stated specs. This is conventional wisdom and seems to be untested. It is also said (I should know, I said it) the Tundra is a 5/8 ton truck. Much of the truck appears to be built as a 3/4 ton but for the 3 leaf rear suspension. Is it possible Toyota planned to come out with a 3/4 ton Tundra and wanted to keep the parts as similar as possible to keep costs down, only adding one leaf? When the truck market collapsed, there was no reason to bring out a 3/4 ton.

Adjusting the WD hitch (an Equalizer) properly I brought the truck level within recommendations by the hitch manufacturer—the front axle maybe 1/2" higher than perfectly level. The headlights do not light the sky.

I weighed what was going in the truck plus the options on the truck to figure out how close I was to maxing out payload. It looked reasonable to me, but everyone has to make their own decisions.

The gas tank is too small. At 26.3 gallons, range is 240-270 miles more or less. I carry one or two 5 gallon gas cans. I'd rather have a bigger tank, and having to buy gas more often is a pain. But it gets us out of the truck and walking around and that's good for us.

A problem in figuring this out as I see it is that Airstream keeps changing the specs without changing the trailer. I have seen different sources from them give different specs for the same year. I don't know whether your nearest dealer in Colo. Sprgs. would weigh tongues for you—and would the water tanks have the usual amounts in them and is the propane filled?

You are doing the right things. I figured the payload wts. over and over as you appear to be doing—given less payload on the Crewmax and the differences in tongue wt, your numbers are fairly close to what I figured. You may want to weigh everything again and again. Have you included gas cans, generator, hitch weight? We figured we were at around 90% of payload. The truck handles it well and the leaves aren't pressed flat. We've towed more than 33,000 miles in 3 years. Of course, past performance is no guarantee of future results and your results may vary, but you can try it at home.

Gene
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Old 09-29-2010, 05:02 PM   #26
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What would Wally do?

And to think, Wally Baym towed with car/station wagon...
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Old 09-29-2010, 05:31 PM   #27
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my weight on the truck scale is 6380 lbs with most everything in my truck, not including the hitch load. (I dont own trailer yet so those numbers are a guestimate). This weight was with me, a full tank of gas, the leer cap, bedrug, step boards, moonroof, computer, a pile of books and maps, 60 lbs of tools, and a few small items. I wouldnt add much unless it was people.



Look forward to seeing the scale ticket breakdown between FF axle and RR axle. Plus, what is GAWR for each; and, what is truck GVWR? What does TOYOTA recommend per WDH? Restore FF axle to unloaded weight/height? Or can one "add" a few hundred with a WDH to the FF axle?



And to think, Wally Byam towed with car/station wagon...

So did we all through the 1970's. Not so many trailers weighed over 7k-lbs however. Plenty of "big" trailers were in the 6's. His trailers were puny in size and weight. But with the demise of big block equipped cars by 1978, the Suburban became the default choice. They not only still had the big motors but had greater than the 2.9-3.2 big car gearsets; from 3.54 upwards as I recall. Suddenly it was easy to make trailers porky (and the advent of rolling condo 5'ers). Easy credit didn't hurt either.

.
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Old 09-29-2010, 05:48 PM   #28
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I tow a 2010 30' Flying Cloud with a 2010 Tundra Platinum 5.7 4WD Use a Propride hitch and P3 brake control. The rig is just what I want. Tows fine and the truck can be driven and parked with no problems. I upgraded to a 46 gallon tank

Toyota Tundra Replacement Fuel Tank

and Toyota tow mirrors.
I was overloaded going into Burningman with two Yamaha 2400 generators, 30 gallons of gas for them, full water in the trailer and 50 gallons of water in the back of the truck, plus the usual gear for the Burn. Cranked an extra inch into the Propride, there was no discernible change in handling. If you talk to the folks who actually pull with the Tundra I doubt you will find many who have had problems.

Cheers

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