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Old 01-26-2004, 12:54 PM   #29
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Roger answered this already but for those who are interested:

T. 201.569.9000

as mentioned it's a special order only.

Good luck!
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Old 01-26-2004, 03:29 PM   #30
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4wd - when you need it - will more than pay for itself. Plus a 4wd will have better resale value than the same vehicle in 2wd. This was the result of a map that did not reflect the actual road type or all of the forks off the main road. We were exploring New Mexico and a road that looked to be improved gravel deteriorated into a one lane dirt road. Added into the mix was a violent thunderstorm that dumped two inches of rain in an hour. The lighter weight of the gas V10 engine up front combined with it's ability to run high rpms and keep the tires cleaned out helped get it out on it's own. Otherwise I'd probably still be sitting there.
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Old 01-26-2004, 04:57 PM   #31
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Roger,

My 2003 Excursion has 4x4, Limited Slip, the new 6.0 PowerStroke. I believe all Ford Diesels come with a 3:73 axle. To my knowledge the only options are, limited slip and 4X4.

Gasoline vehicles generally have other axle choices.

Our first tow vehicle had rear wheel drive w/positrac. A campground that we choose for the first camp trip with a Travel Trailer, a flash rain storm rendered the first sharp curve unmanageable. A camper who had just arrived and after unhooking his his 5th wheel, came and pulled us out. Oh how greatful I was and still am!

I'd recommend a 4x4, it's reassuring to have it for those times you need it.

I rarely need to engage 4x4 but sometimes detours, service station remodleing or pulling a gravel hill requires its use.
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Old 01-26-2004, 07:34 PM   #32
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John Baker

John,
How do you like the new 6.0 litre Ford diesel? I've seen pulling tests listed months ago on www.pickuptruck.com between the Ford 6.0, Chevy Duramax and Dodge HO Cummins with the Ford pulling harder/faster up the test incline.
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Old 01-26-2004, 09:06 PM   #33
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Re: John Baker

Quote:
Originally posted by davidz71
John,
How do you like the new 6.0 litre Ford diesel? I've seen pulling tests listed months ago on www.pickuptruck.com between the Ford 6.0, Chevy Duramax and Dodge HO Cummins with the Ford pulling harder/faster up the test incline.
Part of the reason the Ford does better is because the new engine has a 1000 rpm higher redline, and higher torque curve, allowing it to downshift and not run into the governor.
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Old 01-26-2004, 09:28 PM   #34
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Ford 6.0

Craig,
This is my first Ford, I have always been a GM person however since they do not make a Surban/Yukon XL with a Duramax or any diesel I turned to Ford. Getting used to another manufactures systems/manors takes time.

The 6.0 litre diesel is awsome. I have always been told to wait for new offerings to be in production a year before buying one.
Ford had a revision that came out in May 2003 which was done. I had a software modification to the computer done in December. The injectors took care of some roughness on cold starting and economy. The software upgrade made an impressive difference in cold/hot starting, smoother downshifting in tow/haul mode, and again in economy.

All of these experiences has increased my understanding of the 6.0 and the 5 speed automatic. This drive train continues to amaze me, the shear power, quiteness and economy for such a heavy vehicle and load. The Excursion weighs about 8000 lbs and the 34 foot limited is about 10,000 lbs.

MPG: This continues to improve with miles. I currently have about 18,000 on the clock. My worst mileage in the Tennessee smokies was about 9 (the Excursion had under 5,000 miles on it. I just returned from Canyon of the Eagles (Texas Hill Country), I ranged from 11.5-14.5. I drive anwhere from 60-70 and an occasional 75. If I really tried I could do better. I may add a free flowing exhaust (Banks) when the warranty runs out. When performance items become available, I don't feel the need to add many performance items since output is so good.

Oh, The only time the Excursion was on the road by itself, I drove from Dallas to Midland and back to Dallas in 1 day, I averaged 18.0 driving 70 most of the time. Honest! I was keeping milage and gas reciepts the manual way too.
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Old 01-26-2004, 09:49 PM   #35
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6.0

Terry,

I really had to get used to hearing the motor rev up and down but its really built for it.
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Old 03-21-2004, 11:46 AM   #36
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Looked at 2004 PS 4WD yesterday...

I made the mistake of driving a new 2004 PS 4WD yesterday at Carousel Motors Ford in Iowa City IA. I had gone in to see if Ford could take care of my "D" range spare tire replacement.

Just for kicks, I'll probably go in sometime next week and see what they'd be willing to trade for. My assessment at this point is that I'll wait until 2006 and find a nice used one with 30k to 40k on it! $900/mo payments just don't sound like something I REALLY want!

I'll keep you posted...

Roger
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Old 03-21-2004, 10:48 PM   #37
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my 2 cents


I belive Diesel is the way to go for a serious Tow Vehicle.
1. You see Torque at a much lower RPM curve
2. Better Fuel milage
3. Engine has a 100,000 mile Warranty from the Factory
4. Oil changes can be spreat as far apart as 15000 miles( if one goes with a secondary oil filter system such as Amsoils, the oil gets send to a lab every 5 to 10k at a cost of less than 10 bucks and if the oil is acceptable i have heard of people going 100,000 miles between changes with no ill affects)
5. Bio-Diesel is on the market ( a bit high in price right now, but if it takes of it should become much cheaper) we need to lessen the dependancy we have on OPEC
6. With proper maintance a Diesel should outlast a Gasser 3 to1

In my opinion there are some things missing in the light duty Diesel trucks that the big three are offering right now.
1. Egt, Boost, Fuel Pressure and Trans Temp Gauges
2. Exaust Brake
3. A real towing Trans (Allison is the closest they have come)
At least give us the option to order the Trucks with the above mentioned and not void our Warrantee

I have owned a 89 F 350 Crew with the 7.3 non Turbo 5 Speed SRW. It pulled anything i ever needed to and more. Traction was never a problem unless i was in snow.
I currently own a 99 Dodge Quad Cab Cummins 4x4 Dually, I thing i have only used the 4 Wheel Drive 10 times in the last 4 Years. Repairs and maintance costs are higher on 4x4 vehicles.

just my 0.2
Felix:) :D
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Old 03-22-2004, 10:10 AM   #38
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Re: FYI

[QUOTE]Originally posted by KIMILI
[B]Our local Chevy dealer said he could "special" order us a Burb with the new duramax but starting at...$55K!!

Kimili,
I have a 2500 Suburban on order, and have spoke with the owner of my local dealer about the Duramax/Allison combo. His words as of today 3/22/04 " We hear about any thing in r&d at least 4 years out and the Duramax/Allison combo is not in r&d" Plus with a msrp of approx 55k on the 2500 Suburban and the additional $ of the Duramax/Allison would put that combination in the 61K range for a vehicle...

Abe
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Old 03-22-2004, 10:29 AM   #39
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" Engine has a 100,000 mile Warranty from the Factory"

Gm offers 3 yrs./36,000 mi. Dodge has 7 yrs./70,000 mi. Ford is ? - but i doubt it is 100,000 mi. There have been extended warrenties on some components in the past - GM's notorious injection pump comes to mind - but I don't think there is anything comparable on new models yet.

"With proper maintance a Diesel should outlast a Gasser 3 to1"

In light duty (one ton and under) I think this is an overstatement. A well maintained gas engine pickup should go 300,000 mi. before a rebuild. A diesel might make it 500,000. Maybe.

We use medium duty diesel trucks and those diesels probably do go two to three times as many miles as a gas version would.

"In my opinion there are some things missing in the light duty Diesel trucks that the big three are offering right now.
1. Egt, Boost, Fuel Pressure and Trans Temp Gauges"

My new Duramax came with a transmission temperature guage. In stock configuration (ie no performance chip) I am not sure what good an EGT or boost guage would do for me. It is not clear what benefit would accrue from a fuel pressure guage under any scenario.

"2. Exaust Brake"

I am sure there is a good reason these are not offered. I cannot imagine what it is, however.

"3. A real towing Trans (Allison is the closest they have come)"

I don't know, the Dodge six speed manual looks pretty good. GM has a 6 spd. manual also that interests me; I know nothing about it, however. Their 5 spd. manual does not seem to get much respect. I bought the Allison, of course. There are some really, really good automatics out there in the medium duty world, but they simply will not fit a light duty chassis.

Not trying to flame anyone here, just giving what little I know, or at least what I suspect!

Mark
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Old 03-22-2004, 10:36 AM   #40
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Exhaust braking is also illegal in several areas I am finding, so even if there was an exhaust brake option, you might not be able to use it in some area without getting hit with a fine.
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Old 03-22-2004, 04:08 PM   #41
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Mark,
As far as i know, the Chevy, Ford and Dodge Diesel pickups come with a 100,000 mile warranty. I know my Dodge did. ( that is for the engine only)
I would like to see a 300,000 mile gas tow vehicle that has not had a rebuilt. I'm talking at least weekly extended tows. The best i have seen was a 97 Ford small block with 190,000 , and that was used for under 5000 pound tows.
If you are towing with a Diesel an Exhaust Gas Temp Gauge is important because it lets you know how hot you are running at the Exhaust, over 1300 Degrees ( pre turbo) is not recommended for extended periods of time( read long steep grades). The Egt also lets you know when the engine has cooled for shut down after a long pull.
A Boost Gauge, lets you see the amount of boost the turbo is building. Most gasoline turbo engines have one from the factory. Should there be a sudden drop in engine performance the gauge will tell if it is air related ( Air Filter, opstruction of airflow or an air leak).
Fuel Pressure Gauge, lets me know how much pressure i have ( my truck is prone for lift pump failures and since the fuel helps cool and lupricate my injection pump i consider it cheap insurance) and since it is mounted post filter i can observe the condition of the filter.
Trans Temp, my truck did not come with one. I would be willing to pay for that option. There is normally no need for one on a manual, so i would like one for auto tannys.
Exhaust Brake, how hot do you like to get your brakes? comming down a steep grade this is great insurance. You will use the engine to help brake the momentum. Almost all big rigs have them. Well worth a 1000 bucks or so in my book. Brakes on 3/4 or 1 Ton pickups are not cheap

Ask some of the MH guys how many miles they get out of the 454's before a rebuild and then talk to some Diesel guys. I think that when we spent this much money on tow vehicles, i should be able to get the proper gauges to monitor my engine. I'm buying with 10 years in mind and a couple of grand extra in the beginning could save many more later. Nothing like loosing a major component after the warranty is out or having no or hot brakes comming down the mountain. Did you ever get stuck on the side of the HYW only to find out it was basic repair ( maybee a colapsed fuel filter). I'm no mechanic but can perform my own maintance and basic repairs if i have to. On the other hand i would hate to spend thousands in labor, parts and a rental car because i had no idear what was going on.

I have to tow at least once a week for a living, my Tow Vehicle is not just the grocery getter. When i tow for some R&R i want to get there and enjoy. Nothing like camping on Interstate what ever, where ever and wishing the cell phone would get a signal or it was daybrake so i can see whats going on. Well than again what for do we need a water temp or a voltage gauge.

Not trying to slam anybody, just my 0.2 cents worth. I'll still stop if i see a felow camper down on the side of the road. I guess we got way of subject on the original threat. Sorry

Felix
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Old 03-22-2004, 05:56 PM   #42
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Felix, since I just bought one, I should know what the warranties are on current diesel offerings, but I really don't. However, I can find no information on currently available models that indicate there is a warranty on the diesel engine beyond the standard warrenty. If you can point me toward information to the contrary, particularly for GM, I would appreciate it.

I think if you will re-read my post you will find I am with you on engine brakes. I can understand them not being standard, but not even an option? The downshifting Allison is a help, but not a solution for someone with a 15,000 lb. load pushing them down the mountain.

Comparing apples and apples, I know of no light duty diesel trucks used in regular heavy hauling duties that made it beyond 300,000 without a rebuild, and I would expect a well maintained gasser to make it to 200,000, anyway. You are quite correct about the 454, though. I've seen more hard worked 460s (Ford) make it to 200,000 than I have 454 get to 150,000 - few seem to get much beyond 100,000. I'd be surprised if the V10 could not do better - that is one understressed motor. But in the mix of daily driving and occasional hauling that most of us on these forums will see, I think promising triple engine life is more than can be delivered - I'll meet you half way: how about twice the life?

By the way, I think motorhome usage is a bad example. It is the years, more than the miles that kill engines in motorhomes - gas or diesel. Yes, you see motorhome gas engines rebuilt at 100,000, 80,000, or even 70,000 miles, but they are often 10-15 years old.

I understand your point about some of the guages, I just don't know what I can do about the information provided. If boost goes south, or fuel pressure, what I need is a warning light, not a guage. I speak for myself here, I can understand others having different needs. And is EGT in an UNMODIFIED diesel likely to go off scale without either engine temperature or transmission temperature, or both, getting high as well? Again, if I had boost control or a performance chip, yes, I'd want boost and (definitely!)egt guages.

Well, this is just talk, and I am no real expert. But a forum like this is the only source of information some of our fellow Airstreamers have about tow vehicles, and maybe all this will be of some help to somebody.

Mark
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