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Old 01-24-2004, 04:20 PM   #15
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Ford Excursion

I have a 2000 Ford Excursion V-10 (gas) 4x4 which I use as my tow vehicle (65K). I have used the 4WD countless times while hauling my trailer around here (Montana). Slick (paved) roads, slick/gumbo gravel roads, unpaved roads, you name it and I have driven it with the trailer in tow. I find that 4WD makes a big difference when driving the Excursion since the handling of this vehicle is not great to begin with.

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Old 01-24-2004, 04:50 PM   #16
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Go Diesel! Go old Ford!

we only have a minute but could not miss out on this one!

We did a lot of investigating before purchasing our tow vehicle and we're very VERY - extremely - happy with our choice: 2000 Diesel Excursion 7.3 lt, 2x4, 4.10 ratio.

With a 34" we believe the 4.10 is mandatory but have no personal experience. RKMoe would probably better answer that.

Ours is a 2x4 and that gives us some extra towing capacity over the 4x4. Sure when you're not towing you lose on the 4x4 advantage but as a few experienced (jeep fond) members have repeatedly said here: 4x4 help you get to those places where you inevitably need help to get out of!

The diesel option especially when towing many miles is a great advantage, we have 2 friends who tow a boat and an sob (9mpg at best!) who don't have the diesel and their gas/cost when towing is almost double ours!!
We average 15-16mpg at 65mph with a 25"AS.

Roger,
we're not sure of the weather conditions in your area but if it does get bitter cold be ware that diesels get finicky in the winter.
If this would be your primary vehicle then make sure you: have a closed garage with an outlet to plug him in at night and that you use the correct diesel additive everytime you fill up, never go below 1/4 tank in cold temps.
Aside from this it's all advantages, DO IT!!

As for Ford versus Chevy let's be objective. They're both good vehicles although the new Chevy diesel engine has definetly gotten better reviews than the Ford.
So when considering a 2002 any of the two is good but if you want to go with a new 2004 then yes we suggest the new improved Duramax. Pahaska just raves about it's performance and you can't beat his mpg!!
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Old 01-24-2004, 05:06 PM   #17
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FYI

Our local Chevy dealer said he could "special" order us a Burb with the new duramax but starting at...$55K!!

3 months and a 3 hour drive later we found our excursion!
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Old 01-24-2004, 06:13 PM   #18
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Originally posted by Silvertwinkie
I thought most of those old problems were dealt with (at least in the Duramax, but also the Powerstroke). Some of the hard starting was fixed by adding an inline fuel heater. Plus I also thought that the Duramax had an advanced glow plug design that made plugging it in not as needed as once was the case with the older diesels. Also, I didn't think that the Duramax (or the Powerstroke) required more frequent oil changes, just that the crankcase had 2-3 more quarts.

True, the cost of fuel is close to the same, however if you get about 3 more MPG and travel the average 10k per year, I would think the cost of the additional oil for oil changes would clearly be overcome by the savings in fuel, not to mention more power and torque at the lower RPM band.

Also, from what I have been reading, diesels now also are coming with EGR valves and converters so the black belching beasts are starting to be tamed as well?

Eric
Powerstroke is a 12-14 quart oil change, depending on truck model.
As far as the sooty black garbage coming out of the tailpipes, that has virtually been eliminated with Catalytic converters, and electronic fuel injection. The 7.3 could be counted on to go 300,000 miles before overhaul, barring unforeseen calamities. Parts generally cost more for the diesel, but they need replacing much less often. Also, with the noise of the Powerstroke, you would know if someone is stealing it in the night... The Duramax IS much quieter, if you like Isuzus.
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Old 01-24-2004, 07:30 PM   #19
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Being here in Texas I would jump off that V-10 and into the diesel in a heartbeat!!

The only thing I would worry about is that white stuff up there they call snow. Just ask yourself if you really need the 4 wheel drive. I would guess it knocks a few mpg's off so be sure to factor that in as well.

If the dealer does the rear swap be sure they swap the entire rear end over and not just do a differential swap, setting the gears up correctly is best left to a professional driveline shop, a heavy truck dealer preferably. I am not sure what effect the non-posi rear axle would have in the V-10 after the dealer ended up with it but I guess you could really care less.



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Old 01-24-2004, 07:49 PM   #20
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I wanta talk~!~!

KIMILI
Quote:
Our local Chevy dealer said he could "special" order us a Burb with the new duramax but starting at...$55K!!
MAN OH MAN, I wanta talk to your DEALER`!~!lol~!~
I've been after my local GM dealer for several yrs now abt a new diesel Burb~!! PLSE...PM me the name and number~

ciao~!
BTW, cold weather start is no big deal~! for example, yesterday it was -11 degrees here and, my burb sat out in the open, unplugged..started right up~! the secret is to keep your vehicle in top shape and, use excellent fuel blend~ I've been known to put a blend of K1 with the diesel as well as a shot of additives to prevent jelling~ works every time~those who run a diesel soon learn quick~! good luck on your choices~
T7~~
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Old 01-24-2004, 11:20 PM   #21
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There are advantages to a diesel, and I'll may never have a truck without one again, but I wouldn't give up 4WD for one when it comes to pulling the 34'.

I also have LS, and twice I've just sat there in 2WD on dew-laden grass with the rear tires spinning. Once was in a WBCCI rally "bull pen." On soft ground or mud, the tires on the 34 can make slight depressions that I couldn't even get out of rocking because both rear wheels spun so easily. Switching to 4WD solved the problem.

The advantages to the diesel are:

higher mileage, and thus greater range for a given fuel tank size

being able to use the much roomier truck stop truck islands with the big nozzles (very late '01 and later Ford trucks, not sure about the X)

going up a hill with the 7.3L chugging along at 2000-2800 rpm in Drive with the torque converter locked vs screaming along at 3100-4300 rpm (the V-10's power curve) in 2nd with the torque converter unlocked, slipping and generating heat.

The other side of a diesel:

While not every station carries it, with a 38 gallon tank, I've never let it go to where finding diesel became a problem. The X has a 44 gallon tank.

The 7.3L takes 15 quarts at an oil change, but the interval is 5,000 miles. I buy the filter and 4 gallons of Rotella for $35 at Wal-Mart. But because my drain pan doesn't hold 15 quarts, I pay the guys at the oil change rack at the car wash $15 to change it and top off the other fluids.

There's no need for 4.10 with an automatic and its torque-multiplying torque converter. The 3.73 with the 7.3L PSD has plenty of torque for the 34'. That's why Ford only offered the 4.10 with the 6-speed manual on the 7.3. The V-10 needs more than the 10% increase in rpm the 4.10 would give to get it into it's powerband. It needs the 1.54:1 of second gear, so there's no reason for a 4.10 with it either.

Bottomline... keep lookin' til you find a 7.3L with 4WD. And this time, get a crew cab truck with a cap on the back so you can carry heavy, dangerous, nasty, and dirty stuff without it being in the passenger compartment with you.
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Old 01-25-2004, 08:44 AM   #22
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OMG!

15 quarts!? OUCH! I thought it was about 8 quarts! Is the Duramax the same thing?

I agree, I'd love the name of the dealer that can order a Suburban with the Duramax/Allison combo!
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Old 01-25-2004, 08:51 AM   #23
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Thumbs up Thanks Everyone!

As always, you guys are great!

Against my better judgement, I drove the 50 miles to the dealership with the diesel X and took it for a test drive. I was impressed with the torque. No doubt about it, when the 7.3 comes into it's powerband, it's sit back and hang on. On the other hand, it takes a TON of foot to get the thing moving from a stop. It doesn't roll-on well until the turbo boost kicks in.

Having the V10 4WD now, it seemed very odd to be in a nearly identical truck that sat three inches lower. It just didn't feel quite right! The main difference I noticed was that the steering in the 2WD diesel was VERY heavy compared to mine. I couldn't quite figure out why, but it was a chore to steer. The power steering was operating fine, it just felt very different. The biggest difference was the noise level. I've parked next to Kenworths that were quieter. I was appalled! Nobody's going to steal one of these without the entire neighborhood hearing it go!

A small issue; my 2000 has heated leather seats; the 2002 had leather, but it wasn't the same quality, and the seat bottoms on both the driver's and passenger's side were 2" narrower!

Just for drill, I also stopped at a couple of GM dealers. It's their consensus that the 'burb MAY be offered with the Duramax/Allison for the first time in '05; but they stressed "MAY".

Anyway, after the test drive, we opted to stay with our 2000 V10 gas 4WD. I checked all of our neighborhood dealerships (200 mile radius) through the Ford corporate website, and it looks like a new 4WD diesel limited is running in the $50k neighborhood; a little too rich for my blood. So, unless a Ford program X shows up with a 30% off sticker reduction, and 0.0% financing, I think our X is pretty secure in it's spot in the garage!

One last question... Ford has apparently switched from the 7.3 liter diesel with a 4spd OD auto in '03 to a 6.0 liter diesel with a 5spd OD auto in '04. Any idea why they abandoned the 7.3? Why does the replacement have significantly less displacement? Any word on how the new trans is holding up in comparison with the old? (just in case I hit the lottery and find myself able to actually buy a new '04...)

Thanks again everybody!

Roger
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Old 01-25-2004, 09:14 AM   #24
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roger

in answer to your last question,

in a word: emissions

which chevy's did you look at?

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Old 01-25-2004, 09:17 AM   #25
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Quote:
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roger

in answer to your last question,

in a word: emissions

which chevy's did you look at?

john

Ahhh, EMISSIONS! Makes sense, I guess...
Didn't really look at Chevy as they don't yet offer what I was looking for! I'm just not interested in another pickup right now...

Roger
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Old 01-25-2004, 06:25 PM   #26
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Ford 6.0 litre diesel

Roger,
I drive an'01 Chevy 2500hd ext. cab with 8.1 litre gas engine, Allison 5 sp. auto trans and 3.73 rear end. The Duramax with Allison trans has the same rear differential as the 8.1 with Allison in either the 2500hd or the 3500 (I'm talking axle tube and dif case size). I would never get rid of 4WD just to have the Duramax. The same goes for any Ford products. My advice, drive your Excursion for several more years and then start looking for a new or used 6.0 litre Ford diesel engine with the 4WD and auto transmission. The 6.0 is a much better diesel engine than the 7.3 PSD with more power/torque and quieter to boot. You will be able scratch that itch and get everything you want.
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Old 01-25-2004, 07:51 PM   #27
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Re: Ford 6.0 litre diesel

Quote:
Originally posted by davidz71
Roger,
I drive an'01 Chevy 2500hd ext. cab with 8.1 litre gas engine, Allison 5 sp. auto trans and 3.73 rear end. The Duramax with Allison trans has the same rear differential as the 8.1 with Allison in either the 2500hd or the 3500 (I'm talking axle tube and dif case size). I would never get rid of 4WD just to have the Duramax. The same goes for any Ford products. My advice, drive your Excursion for several more years and then start looking for a new or used 6.0 litre Ford diesel engine with the 4WD and auto transmission. The 6.0 is a much better diesel engine than the 7.3 PSD with more power/torque and quieter to boot. You will be able scratch that itch and get everything you want.
Thanks, Craig... that's pretty much what I'd decided as well...

Roger
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Old 01-25-2004, 07:52 PM   #28
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I have 2 7.3l Ford trucks, so I am a hardened diesel nut.. But, though I love the Powerstroke, I would NEVER trade a 4x4 anything, for a 2x4 diesel, because if you need 4x4 and don't have it, you are stuck, waiting for the tow truck.

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