Seeking Ford Excursion advise...

[RoadKingMoe]

There are advantages to a diesel, and I'll may never have a truck without one again, but I wouldn't give up 4WD for one when it comes to pulling the 34'.

I also have LS, and twice I've just sat there in 2WD on dew-laden grass with the rear tires spinning. Once was in a WBCCI rally "bull pen." On soft ground or mud, the tires on the 34 can make slight depressions that I couldn't even get out of rocking because both rear wheels spun so easily. Switching to 4WD solved the problem.

The advantages to the diesel are:

higher mileage, and thus greater range for a given fuel tank size

being able to use the much roomier truck stop truck islands with the big nozzles (very late '01 and later Ford trucks, not sure about the X)

going up a hill with the 7.3L chugging along at 2000-2800 rpm in Drive with the torque converter locked vs screaming along at 3100-4300 rpm (the V-10's power curve) in 2nd with the torque converter unlocked, slipping and generating heat.

The other side of a diesel:

While not every station carries it, with a 38 gallon tank, I've never let it go to where finding diesel became a problem. The X has a 44 gallon tank.

The 7.3L takes 15 quarts at an oil change, but the interval is 5,000 miles. I buy the filter and 4 gallons of Rotella for $35 at Wal-Mart. But because my drain pan doesn't hold 15 quarts, I pay the guys at the oil change rack at the car wash $15 to change it and top off the other fluids.

There's no need for 4.10 with an automatic and its torque-multiplying torque converter. The 3.73 with the 7.3L PSD has plenty of torque for the 34'. That's why Ford only offered the 4.10 with the 6-speed manual on the 7.3. The V-10 needs more than the 10% increase in rpm the 4.10 would give to get it into it's powerband. It needs the 1.54:1 of second gear, so there's no reason for a 4.10 with it either.

Bottomline... keep lookin' til you find a 7.3L with 4WD. And this time, get a crew cab truck with a cap on the back so you can carry heavy, dangerous, nasty, and dirty stuff without it being in the passenger compartment with you.

[Silvertwinkie]

OMG!

15 quarts!? OUCH! I thought it was about 8 quarts! Is the Duramax the same thing?

I agree, I'd love the name of the dealer that can order a Suburban with the Duramax/Allison combo!

[85MH325]

As always, you guys are great!

Against my better judgement, I drove the 50 miles to the dealership with the diesel X and took it for a test drive. I was impressed with the torque. No doubt about it, when the 7.3 comes into it's powerband, it's sit back and hang on. On the other hand, it takes a TON of foot to get the thing moving from a stop. It doesn't roll-on well until the turbo boost kicks in.

Having the V10 4WD now, it seemed very odd to be in a nearly identical truck that sat three inches lower. It just didn't feel quite right! The main difference I noticed was that the steering in the 2WD diesel was VERY heavy compared to mine. I couldn't quite figure out why, but it was a chore to steer. The power steering was operating fine, it just felt very different. The biggest difference was the noise level. I've parked next to Kenworths that were quieter. I was appalled! Nobody's going to steal one of these without the entire neighborhood hearing it go!

A small issue; my 2000 has heated leather seats; the 2002 had leather, but it wasn't the same quality, and the seat bottoms on both the driver's and passenger's side were 2" narrower!

Just for drill, I also stopped at a couple of GM dealers. It's their consensus that the 'burb MAY be offered with the Duramax/Allison for the first time in '05; but they stressed "MAY".

Anyway, after the test drive, we opted to stay with our 2000 V10 gas 4WD. I checked all of our neighborhood dealerships (200 mile radius) through the Ford corporate website, and it looks like a new 4WD diesel limited is running in the $50k neighborhood; a little too rich for my blood. So, unless a Ford program X shows up with a 30% off sticker reduction, and 0.0% financing, I think our X is pretty secure in it's spot in the garage!

One last question... Ford has apparently switched from the 7.3 liter diesel with a 4spd OD auto in '03 to a 6.0 liter diesel with a 5spd OD auto in '04. Any idea why they abandoned the 7.3? Why does the replacement have significantly less displacement? Any word on how the new trans is holding up in comparison with the old? (just in case I hit the lottery and find myself able to actually buy a new '04...)

Thanks again everybody!

Roger

[john hd]

roger

in answer to your last question,

in a word: emissions

which chevy's did you look at?

john

[85MH325]

Originally posted by john hd
roger

in answer to your last question,

in a word: emissions

which chevy's did you look at?

john

Ahhh, EMISSIONS! Makes sense, I guess...
Didn't really look at Chevy as they don't yet offer what I was looking for! I'm just not interested in another pickup right now...

Roger

[davidz71]

Roger,
I drive an'01 Chevy 2500hd ext. cab with 8.1 litre gas engine, Allison 5 sp. auto trans and 3.73 rear end. The Duramax with Allison trans has the same rear differential as the 8.1 with Allison in either the 2500hd or the 3500 (I'm talking axle tube and dif case size). I would never get rid of 4WD just to have the Duramax. The same goes for any Ford products. My advice, drive your Excursion for several more years and then start looking for a new or used 6.0 litre Ford diesel engine with the 4WD and auto transmission. The 6.0 is a much better diesel engine than the 7.3 PSD with more power/torque and quieter to boot. You will be able scratch that itch and get everything you want.

[85MH325]

Originally posted by davidz71
Roger,
I drive an'01 Chevy 2500hd ext. cab with 8.1 litre gas engine, Allison 5 sp. auto trans and 3.73 rear end. The Duramax with Allison trans has the same rear differential as the 8.1 with Allison in either the 2500hd or the 3500 (I'm talking axle tube and dif case size). I would never get rid of 4WD just to have the Duramax. The same goes for any Ford products. My advice, drive your Excursion for several more years and then start looking for a new or used 6.0 litre Ford diesel engine with the 4WD and auto transmission. The 6.0 is a much better diesel engine than the 7.3 PSD with more power/torque and quieter to boot. You will be able scratch that itch and get everything you want.

Thanks, Craig... that's pretty much what I'd decided as well...

Roger

[Theo]

I have 2 7.3l Ford trucks, so I am a hardened diesel nut.. But, though I love the Powerstroke, I would NEVER trade a 4x4 anything, for a 2x4 diesel, because if you need 4x4 and don't have it, you are stuck, waiting for the tow truck.

Theo

[KIMILI]

Roger answered this already but for those who are interested:

T. 201.569.9000

as mentioned it's a special order only.

Good luck!

[Paul Mayeux]

4wd - when you need it - will more than pay for itself. Plus a 4wd will have better resale value than the same vehicle in 2wd. This was the result of a map that did not reflect the actual road type or all of the forks off the main road. We were exploring New Mexico and a road that looked to be improved gravel deteriorated into a one lane dirt road. Added into the mix was a violent thunderstorm that dumped two inches of rain in an hour. The lighter weight of the gas V10 engine up front combined with it's ability to run high rpms and keep the tires cleaned out helped get it out on it's own. Otherwise I'd probably still be sitting there.

[J&C]

Roger,

My 2003 Excursion has 4x4, Limited Slip, the new 6.0 PowerStroke. I believe all Ford Diesels come with a 3:73 axle. To my knowledge the only options are, limited slip and 4X4.

Gasoline vehicles generally have other axle choices.

Our first tow vehicle had rear wheel drive w/positrac. A campground that we choose for the first camp trip with a Travel Trailer, a flash rain storm rendered the first sharp curve unmanageable. A camper who had just arrived and after unhooking his his 5th wheel, came and pulled us out. Oh how greatful I was and still am!

I'd recommend a 4x4, it's reassuring to have it for those times you need it.

I rarely need to engage 4x4 but sometimes detours, service station remodleing or pulling a gravel hill requires its use.

[davidz71]

John,
How do you like the new 6.0 litre Ford diesel? I've seen pulling tests listed months ago on www.pickuptruck.com between the Ford 6.0, Chevy Duramax and Dodge HO Cummins with the Ford pulling harder/faster up the test incline.

[overlander63]

Originally posted by davidz71
John,
How do you like the new 6.0 litre Ford diesel? I've seen pulling tests listed months ago on www.pickuptruck.com between the Ford 6.0, Chevy Duramax and Dodge HO Cummins with the Ford pulling harder/faster up the test incline.

Part of the reason the Ford does better is because the new engine has a 1000 rpm higher redline, and higher torque curve, allowing it to downshift and not run into the governor.
Terry

[J&C]

Craig,
This is my first Ford, I have always been a GM person however since they do not make a Surban/Yukon XL with a Duramax or any diesel I turned to Ford. Getting used to another manufactures systems/manors takes time.

The 6.0 litre diesel is awsome. I have always been told to wait for new offerings to be in production a year before buying one.
Ford had a revision that came out in May 2003 which was done. I had a software modification to the computer done in December. The injectors took care of some roughness on cold starting and economy. The software upgrade made an impressive difference in cold/hot starting, smoother downshifting in tow/haul mode, and again in economy.

All of these experiences has increased my understanding of the 6.0 and the 5 speed automatic. This drive train continues to amaze me, the shear power, quiteness and economy for such a heavy vehicle and load. The Excursion weighs about 8000 lbs and the 34 foot limited is about 10,000 lbs.

MPG: This continues to improve with miles. I currently have about 18,000 on the clock. My worst mileage in the Tennessee smokies was about 9 (the Excursion had under 5,000 miles on it. I just returned from Canyon of the Eagles (Texas Hill Country), I ranged from 11.5-14.5. I drive anwhere from 60-70 and an occasional 75. If I really tried I could do better. I may add a free flowing exhaust (Banks) when the warranty runs out. When performance items become available, I don't feel the need to add many performance items since output is so good.

Oh, The only time the Excursion was on the road by itself, I drove from Dallas to Midland and back to Dallas in 1 day, I averaged 18.0 driving 70 most of the time. Honest! I was keeping milage and gas reciepts the manual way too.

[J&C]

Terry,

I really had to get used to hearing the motor rev up and down but its really built for it.

[85MH325]

I made the mistake of driving a new 2004 PS 4WD yesterday at Carousel Motors Ford in Iowa City IA. I had gone in to see if Ford could take care of my "D" range spare tire replacement.

Just for kicks, I'll probably go in sometime next week and see what they'd be willing to trade for. My assessment at this point is that I'll wait until 2006 and find a nice used one with 30k to 40k on it! $900/mo payments just don't sound like something I REALLY want!

I'll keep you posted...

Roger

[Holzarbeiter]

my 2 cents


I belive Diesel is the way to go for a serious Tow Vehicle.
1. You see Torque at a much lower RPM curve
2. Better Fuel milage
3. Engine has a 100,000 mile Warranty from the Factory
4. Oil changes can be spreat as far apart as 15000 miles( if one goes with a secondary oil filter system such as Amsoils, the oil gets send to a lab every 5 to 10k at a cost of less than 10 bucks and if the oil is acceptable i have heard of people going 100,000 miles between changes with no ill affects)
5. Bio-Diesel is on the market ( a bit high in price right now, but if it takes of it should become much cheaper) we need to lessen the dependancy we have on OPEC
6. With proper maintance a Diesel should outlast a Gasser 3 to1

In my opinion there are some things missing in the light duty Diesel trucks that the big three are offering right now.
1. Egt, Boost, Fuel Pressure and Trans Temp Gauges
2. Exaust Brake
3. A real towing Trans (Allison is the closest they have come)
At least give us the option to order the Trucks with the above mentioned and not void our Warrantee

I have owned a 89 F 350 Crew with the 7.3 non Turbo 5 Speed SRW. It pulled anything i ever needed to and more. Traction was never a problem unless i was in snow.
I currently own a 99 Dodge Quad Cab Cummins 4x4 Dually, I thing i have only used the 4 Wheel Drive 10 times in the last 4 Years. Repairs and maintance costs are higher on 4x4 vehicles.

just my 0.2
Felix:) :D

[vajeep]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by KIMILI
[B]Our local Chevy dealer said he could "special" order us a Burb with the new duramax but starting at...$55K!!

Kimili,
I have a 2500 Suburban on order, and have spoke with the owner of my local dealer about the Duramax/Allison combo. His words as of today 3/22/04 " We hear about any thing in r&d at least 4 years out and the Duramax/Allison combo is not in r&d" Plus with a msrp of approx 55k on the 2500 Suburban and the additional $ of the Duramax/Allison would put that combination in the 61K range for a vehicle...

Abe

[j54mark]

" Engine has a 100,000 mile Warranty from the Factory"

Gm offers 3 yrs./36,000 mi. Dodge has 7 yrs./70,000 mi. Ford is ? - but i doubt it is 100,000 mi. There have been extended warrenties on some components in the past - GM's notorious injection pump comes to mind - but I don't think there is anything comparable on new models yet.

"With proper maintance a Diesel should outlast a Gasser 3 to1"

In light duty (one ton and under) I think this is an overstatement. A well maintained gas engine pickup should go 300,000 mi. before a rebuild. A diesel might make it 500,000. Maybe.

We use medium duty diesel trucks and those diesels probably do go two to three times as many miles as a gas version would.

"In my opinion there are some things missing in the light duty Diesel trucks that the big three are offering right now.
1. Egt, Boost, Fuel Pressure and Trans Temp Gauges"

My new Duramax came with a transmission temperature guage. In stock configuration (ie no performance chip) I am not sure what good an EGT or boost guage would do for me. It is not clear what benefit would accrue from a fuel pressure guage under any scenario.

"2. Exaust Brake"

I am sure there is a good reason these are not offered. I cannot imagine what it is, however.

"3. A real towing Trans (Allison is the closest they have come)"

I don't know, the Dodge six speed manual looks pretty good. GM has a 6 spd. manual also that interests me; I know nothing about it, however. Their 5 spd. manual does not seem to get much respect. I bought the Allison, of course. There are some really, really good automatics out there in the medium duty world, but they simply will not fit a light duty chassis.

Not trying to flame anyone here, just giving what little I know, or at least what I suspect!

Mark

[Silvertwinkie]

Exhaust braking is also illegal in several areas I am finding, so even if there was an exhaust brake option, you might not be able to use it in some area without getting hit with a fine.