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Old 02-21-2008, 06:57 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck


it is NOT false. what I said, is what it cost, (msrp) for that truck, at that point in time.

So chevy, today, charges less. whoop-de-freakin-doo, its still "thousand$" of dollars for the option. If that's not "real" to you, then well, congratulations, and god bless america. I'm happy for you.
Chuck, we can go round and round on this, but your comments are not accurate. This is not something just happened recently either, it's been this way for at least the last 4-5 years, maybe longer. Of course, I am only speaking toward the GM offerings. You may be right when it comes to Ford or Dodge, but I don't care for or subscribe to either brand and that is my personal choice, not suggesting folks flock to GM (though it's not a bad idea).

I personally feel that around $3000 (or in some cases even less than that) for a better engine, frame, brakes, hubs, transmission, additional gauges, suspension, is a small price to pay for these added benefits. I look at it this way, if you care to, and have spent what we all have for our Airstreams, or any trailer for that matter, why skimp $3000 or in some cases barely any difference in terms of cost? Over 5 years, that's only $50 a month if you finance the vehicle. I would agree that the prices of trucks in general, be it 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton isn't an inexpensive endevor, but if you want to play, you got to pay. No one is giving toys away for nothing. I too, like anyone want to spend the least I have to, but I also want the best I can get. I feel personally I have done that.

I would furhter agree, that if someone had up to a 23' unit, 1/2 is the way to go, or if you had a vintage, but when your talking along the weights and sizes of 25' or larger newer Airstream (or equiv trailer) the benefits of 3/4 are pretty clear, to most of us. Rember I moved my 25' Safari with a 1/2 equiv. It moved my Safari well. Power was never an issue, but remember, power is only part of the overall equation when it comes to towing. Me I am very happy with my course of action as I hope others, regardless of what they have, are happy and safe with theirs.

Bill has put out what I would consider a good post on his exp. Though I have no diesel, I can appreciate his process. I have no interest in doing a Chevy vs Ford type discussion here on the topic of 1/2 vs 3/4 and further clouding the thread bringing up diesel, because my take is, that isn't what the thread was about. What I've stated are the facts in terms of the comments of 3/4 more pricey than 1/2 ton to the best of my ability. Readers are welcome to do their own comparisions and draw their own conclusions from it as I am not trying to force anyone to agree or disagree. If anyone wants to get into a more in depth converstion about it, feel free to PM me about it and we can talk further on the subject and maybe pull even more historical data out that would support the overall comments here so as not to hijack this thread.
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Old 02-21-2008, 07:23 AM   #44
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I’ll lump a few responses together here;

The GM 8.1l was a great engine, why they dumped it, we’ll never know. If you have a Burb, Avy, or truck with one, count yourself lucky…except at the gas pump! But as Silvertwinkie noted “ youz got to pay to play”…none of us are doing this to save money.

Chuck, my point on the price is there is lots of overlap when specing out a truck. If bling is your priority then spend 40 large on a pimped ½ ton, if safety and performance is your priority you can spend 30 large and get a ¾ ton stripper. See the point?

Pmc, I’m with you. I tend to keep my vehicles for 10 years. The D/A is competent enough to do that easily. With the cost of vehicles today, you have to keep them a long time to get any value out of them. I’d hate to buy a brand new ½ ton just to find out it wasn’t really up to the task. This is really the point of this post; to help someone who may be shopping, or just getting into this game, the consensus is, if you are towing a significant load, get the ¾ ton and you will have no worries about your TV’s capabilities.

FYI; please note my 89 25’ Excella has a tongue weight of ~ 1000# when loaded. This is enough to seriously burden any ½ ton after you throw the family, the dog, and lunch in the cab.

Bill
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Old 02-21-2008, 09:29 AM   #45
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[quote]FYI; please note my 89 25’ Excella has a tongue weight of ~ 1000# when loaded. This is enough to seriously burden any ½ ton after you throw the family, the dog, and lunch in the cab.[/quote]Bill, I agree with you on this point.
As I stated earlier, a 1/2 ton isn't for everyone or every trailer. But there are some here who think you can ONLY tow with a 3/4 - they are flat wrong.
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Old 02-21-2008, 10:05 AM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvertwinkie
Chuck, we can go round and round on this, but your comments are not accurate.
They are absolutely, 100% accurate.

Did you buy a dodge pickup in 1999??

were you on the lot, looking at an exact duplicate of MY truck??

Why is it so hard for you to accept that a 3/4 ton package on a dodge truck in 1999 cost $5000? why??
there isn't a vehicle manufacturer on the planet, then or now, that gives away a 3/4 ton package for free, and that is essentially what the original poster stated, and that is all I have a quibble with.
The rest, is all highly subjective, personal preference.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fryzowt
But there are some here who think you can ONLY tow with a 3/4 - they are flat wrong.
well, that is always the overall tone of these discussions, that "my choice is the only reasonable one". The fact is that people's situations are as variable as the people themselves, and there is almost never 1 single "correct" choice.
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Old 02-21-2008, 10:47 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fyrzowt
As I stated earlier, a 1/2 ton isn't for everyone or every trailer. But there are some here who think you can ONLY tow with a 3/4 - they are flat wrong.
Dave, very true, but my point was I have not found any negatives to 3/4 ton ownership...so why not?

As oft stated "better to have more than you need...than need more than you have".

Can anyone think of any negatives they have experienced by moving from a 1/2 ton to a 3/4 ton?

I'll offer one counter point right away to another oft stated theory; I don't understand how some folks, including one of our favorite vendors, believes that a stiff TV suspension can effect the integrity of the AS being towed by it. Last time I checked, I had a very compliant suspension system underneath my AS to compensate for any stress on it's components. If you consider how the load (all forces,including from the tongue) is transferred in the system (quick free-body diagram) the force is always being absorbed by compression of the suspension components. Might this wear your suspension quicker over time (maybe if you maxed the system="bottom out"). My suspension is in pretty good shape at only 19 years and ??? miles...I guess this theory remains to be tested.

Bill
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Old 02-21-2008, 11:00 AM   #48
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Two years ago another member and I were arguing the TV specs and math on what it takes to tow heavier newer 25' and 28' Airstreams. Let's just say we had some posts removed. Four months later I became a mod and have taken the responsibility to understand multiple members' perspectives and experiences. I scratch my head somewhat but I do respect the technological solutions found by Can-Am RV. Somewhere in between is Gen Disarray's http://www.airforums.com/forums/f348...ers-36380.html thread. It doesn't come down to being a millionaire. Too many towing solutions work in the real world to deny them a place at the table. I see this view mentioned in this thread -- just wanted to bring it up again though.
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Towing 1000# tongue weight (when water is aboard) with a 3/4-tonner... no embarassment to admit it. Your numbers may vary.

Bob
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Old 02-21-2008, 11:11 AM   #49
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As regards price of the 1/2 vs 3/4 - I can't afford new.
Around here, the 3/4 ton trucks DO cost more in the used market. Probably due to our rural area and agricultural use pressures. ??
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Old 02-21-2008, 11:26 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanoeStream
Somewhere in between is Gen Disarray's http://www.airforums.com/forums/f348...ers-36380.html thread. It doesn't come down to being a millionaire. Too many towing solutions work in the real world to deny them a place at the table. I see this view mentioned in this thread -- just wanted to bring it up again though.
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Bob

You beat me to it Bob, sometimes we forget the relative financial differences of the members. Most of the forum members are not spending $100,000 on their TV/AS rig (don't forget the gens, BBQs, chairs and other accessories). When we talk about all of the theoretical options, we should remember they may not be practical options in some cases. Economics does play a significant role in this discussion.
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Old 02-21-2008, 11:44 AM   #51
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Wink Getting a loan to fill the tank in winter

Quote:
Originally Posted by altamont
On the downside, diesel fuel is $0.20 more a gallon than premium right now. That hurts but the increase in miles per gallon makes up the difference in cost.

As an aside, can anyone tell me why diesel should ever cost more than gas? When we bought our truck last April, diesel was $0.20 LESS than regular.
I switched from a HEMI powered 1/2 ton to a Cummins diesel in the fall of '05. Just in time for the winter price increase for diesel. The pundits claim that the high prices in winter are due to competition with home heating oil, which is basically the same juice. Even so, the better mileage meant that diesel had to be more than 60 cents higher than midgrade for the fuel costs to be higher. Every summer (Airstreaming season for us working stiffs in the great white north) the diesel has dropped to below regular unleaded. So, I just grin and bear it when filling up in the winter. The other odd thing is how gas prices fluctuate a lot while the diesel stays the same. It probably has something to do with how much fuel they go thru each week.
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Old 02-21-2008, 11:52 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TIMEMACHINE
You beat me to it Bob, sometimes we forget the relative financial differences of the members. Most of the forum members are not spending $100,000 on their TV/AS rig (don't forget the gens, BBQs, chairs and other accessories). When we talk about all of the theoretical options, we should remember they may not be practical options in some cases. Economics does play a significant role in this discussion.
Yes, exactly; for the same $, with a little homework, some concession on the bling (maybe), you can gain the added benefit of a HD tow vehicle. This applies to new/used, Millionairstream/or not.
It is a question of priorities.

Bill
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Old 02-21-2008, 01:47 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sander17
So, I just grin and bear it when filling up in the winter. The other odd thing is how gas prices fluctuate a lot while the diesel stays the same. It probably has something to do with how much fuel they go thru each week.
I think clean air standards also affected diesel fuel pricing. Aparently the low sulpher diesel commands some additional refining. Always some excuse to push up the price. I'm not sure if those standards apply to the product as a whole or are regional specific as are gasoline.

For what it's worth. In the van world we looked closely at the difference between 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton GM vans and the price differential was at the time was extremely small. Not only did it get me the bigger wheels, E rated tires, and beefier frame components, but it opened up the option list to larger engines and axle configurations. I'm not sure how that translates to the pickup world though.

Jack
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Old 02-21-2008, 04:40 PM   #54
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You guys crack me up.

But, for what it's worth

2008 Dodge Ram 1500 Quad Cab 4X4 SLT Hemi Automatic MSRP $36355

2008 Dodge Ram 2500 Quad Cab 4X4 SLT Hemi Automatic MSRP $37175

ADD Diesel............................................ ....................MSRP $44675

However, that $7500 premium for the diesel does not just add the diesel engine to the 2500. Everything under the hood and underneath the truck is different.

Roger
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Old 02-21-2008, 04:53 PM   #55
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Thumbs down rong title

Are we comparing 1/2 to 3/4....or petrol and oil burner.

Maybe it would help if we got rid of the vs in the title.....

Have fun people
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Old 02-21-2008, 06:52 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RBolton
You guys crack me up.

But, for what it's worth

2008 Dodge Ram 1500 Quad Cab 4X4 SLT Hemi Automatic MSRP $36355

2008 Dodge Ram 2500 Quad Cab 4X4 SLT Hemi Automatic MSRP $37175

ADD Diesel............................................ ....................MSRP $44675

However, that $7500 premium for the diesel does not just add the diesel engine to the 2500. Everything under the hood and underneath the truck is different.

Roger
Or (from Dodge.com); 5.9-Liter HO Cummins Turbo Diesel Engine
$5,605
  • GVW Rating 9,000 Pounds
  • 5.5 Additional Gallons of Diesel
  • Tow Hooks
  • Current Generation Engine Controller
  • Electronically Controlled Throttle
  • Underground Calibration
  • 11.50 Rear Axle
  • 750-Ampere Maintenance-Free Battery
3.73 Axle Ratio
Incl.
6-Speed Manual Transmission
Incl.

Features/Options$0
HD Vinyl 40/20/40 Split Bench Seat
Incl.
Monotone Paint
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40/20/40 Split Bench Seat
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Black Vinyl Floor Covering
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Air Conditioning
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4-Speakers
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AM/FM Stereo with CD Player
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LT245/70R17E BSW All Season Tires
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Net Price: $32,535Special Interest Rate: Est. Mo. Purchase Payment‡: Est. Mo. Lease Payment†: Est. Mo. Plus Payment†:

As you can see, lots of overlap (depending on priorities) Yes-it can be done!

Bill
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