Reflections on 3/4 ton ownership

[KeithC]

As an Oklahoman, it deeply pains my soul to agree with anyone by the name of BillTex.

As far as I know, the only thing on earth, about any two subject that BillTex and I agree could every agree on, is that a 3/4 ton diesel TV is the only way to go.

[RBolton]

Originally Posted by BillTex

As you can see, lots of overlap (depending on priorities) Yes-it can be done!

Bill

I agree. It is possible to pay the same or even less for a 3/4 ton than a 1/2 ton. It all depends on how it is equipped and this is determined by how you prioritize your needs. Your Dodge info is outdated though. the 5.9 has not been available to order for more than a year and the price for the diesel shot up drastrically with the introduction of the 6.7 and the mandatory $995 Blue-Tec emmisions system tied to it.

I realize that your original post was not intended to pit 3/4's againsts 1/2's or diesel againsts gas, but rather to keep us informed about your experience with your 3/4 ton truck. I look forward to your observations.

With two exceptions the question about which is better to tow with is pretty cut and dried. 3/4 tons are better suited to towing than 1/2 tons except when they're not and diesels make more sense than gas except when they don't. If cornered, I may flip flop on both accounts.

Roger

[BillTex]

Originally Posted by RBolton

I agree. It is possible to pay the same or even less for a 3/4 ton than a 1/2 ton. It all depends on how it is equipped and this is determined by how you prioritize your needs. Your Dodge info is outdated though. the 5.9 has not been available to order for more than a year and the price for the diesel shot up drastrically with the introduction of the 6.7 and the mandatory $995 Blue-Tec emmisions system tied to it.

Roger, got that off dodge.com last night...must still be available for sale?

Keith...very funny! I am a New Englander though...other than business trips, I don't get to Texas much. But I must admit, I like Texas, and Texans-have some good friends there, and always appreciated the mindset of the United State of Texas!
Sorry Okie...

Bill

[Chuck]

Originally Posted by RBolton

3/4 tons are better suited to towing than 1/2 tons except when they're not and diesels make more sense than gas except when they don't.

This, I will agree with whole-heartedly.

but I gotta throw in, in your earlier example, comparing a 1/2-ton Hemi to a 3/4 ton hemi is deceptive. the Hemi is an upgrade on the half-ton, while it is "included" as the base engine for the 3/4. So sure, you can buy a half ton, and then buy the individual componenents of a 3/4 ton in piecemeal fashion, and they're going to wind up being close in price.

You can add all sorts of things to a 1/2 ton, but no matter what, its still "a half ton". But you can only take so much away from a 3/4 ton. So the only fair comparison, to see only that which defines the difference, is to look at them totally stripped.
2008 Ram 1/2 ton: 22k
2008 Ram 3/4 ton: 27k.

Interesting that its hardly any different than it was in 1999, when I bought my truck, (and on what I based my earlier statments that "it cost 5K for 3/4 ton" .).
But however you want to slice it, the things that make it able to tow/carry more cost a significant amount of money.

[BillTex]

Originally Posted by Chuck

You can add all sorts of things to a 1/2 ton, but no matter what, its still "a half ton". But you can only take so much away from a 3/4 ton. So the only fair comparison, to see only that which defines the difference, is to look at them totally stripped.
2008 Ram 1/2 ton: 22k
2008 Ram 3/4 ton: 27k.

Interesting that its hardly any different than it was in 1999, when I bought my truck, (and on what I based my earlier statments that "it cost 5K for 3/4 ton" .).
But however you want to slice it, the things that make it able to tow/carry more cost a significant amount of money.

Chuck, you did not buy a stripped truck...that is one of my points. For what you spent (4x4, QC, etc) you COULD HAVE got into a 3/4 ton. I have not seen many folks driving stripped TV's towing AirStreams.
We all have different priorities...

Knowing what I know now, I would take a hit on bling, if I had to, to tow with a 3/4 ton. It is that much better (IMO).

Bill

[dick&claire]

I'm new, haven't even picked up my AS 27 yet (next Saturday) and have a Toyota Tundra Crew Max. I'll see how it goes! However, talking with the Toyota service chief last week I asked him about the diesel Tundra for 2009. He said interestingly that he thinks Toyota is going to do a hybrid diesel next year; a powerful diesel and a big generator. I'm interested in seeing how it performs compared to the current 3/4 ton trucks.

[BillTex]

Originally Posted by dick&claire

I'm new, haven't even picked up my AS 27 yet (next Saturday) and have a Toyota Tundra Crew Max. I'll see how it goes! However, talking with the Toyota service chief last week I asked him about the diesel Tundra for 2009. He said interestingly that he thinks Toyota is going to do a hybrid diesel next year; a powerful diesel and a big generator. I'm interested in seeing how it performs compared to the current 3/4 ton trucks.

Hi Dick, I have been following your quest for information on AS's and TV's. You are asking all the right questions.
As you already own the 1/2 ton, I don't blame you for trying it. But be aware, you will be very close to max when travelling.

I believe diesel hybrids to be the best of both worlds and probably what will be the wave of the future. That would be very cool with a genset also...

Good luck, and post pics when you get your AS. We love that 27 FB!

Bill

[Chuck]

Well...no, I couldn't have. the only "bling" I got on my truck is the SLT package, and the automatic.
quad cab is *required* I need it. not "nice to have"...not "incidental", as the phrase "bling" implies.
same w/ 4x4. I have to have it to plow my driveway...or just get up the steep hill to my house. These options equate to about 8g's.
the automatic...well...if you've ever driven a dodge (or any other "truck") with a manual, you wouldn't think that's incidental, either. But slt/auto is only about 3k. doesn't cover the additional 5 it would take to get into a bare-bones, stripped out, regular-cab truck that can't carry my whole family, so I can go uphill a little faster on the 10 or 15 days a year that I tow a trailer.

I do agree with you, though, that it is about priorities. If my situation mirrored yours, I would probably make the same choice. But nobody is going to get "more power" for free.

[RBolton]

Originally Posted by Chuck

This, I will agree with whole-heartedly.

but I gotta throw in, in your earlier example, comparing a 1/2-ton Hemi to a 3/4 ton hemi is deceptive. the Hemi is an upgrade on the half-ton, while it is "included" as the base engine for the 3/4. So sure, you can buy a half ton, and then buy the individual componenents of a 3/4 ton in piecemeal fashion, and they're going to wind up being close in price.

You can add all sorts of things to a 1/2 ton, but no matter what, its still "a half ton". But you can only take so much away from a 3/4 ton. So the only fair comparison, to see only that which defines the difference, is to look at them totally stripped.
2008 Ram 1/2 ton: 22k
2008 Ram 3/4 ton: 27k.

Interesting that its hardly any different than it was in 1999, when I bought my truck, (and on what I based my earlier statments that "it cost 5K for 3/4 ton" .).
But however you want to slice it, the things that make it able to tow/carry more cost a significant amount of money.

Chuck, In my comparison between the 1/2 and 3/4 trucks I went solely with the 26G SLT pkg on both with no other options added. Therefore the only difference would be the heavy duty components on the 3/4. How is this misleading? The HD 3/4 components define the difference. The point (or at least a point) is that beyond a certain point with the 1/2 it does not take a lot to move into the 3/4.

Comparing stripped models is the misleading comparison as the trucks are nothing alike. Yes, it shows the huge price difference of which you speak but in my opinion one truck would likely not be able to tow the trailer in the first place.

Roger

[Chuck]

Originally Posted by RBolton

Chuck, In my comparison between the 1/2 and 3/4 trucks I went solely with the 26G SLT pkg on both with no other options added.

yeah, you added a hemi to the 1/2 ton. thats 1000 bucks. and I don't know why, but the slt package is 2k on a 3/4 ton, but 4k on a 1/2 ton.

Originally Posted by RBolton

Therefore the only difference would be the heavy duty components on the 3/4. How is this misleading?

It wouldn't be, if that's what you were doing...but its not. you're comparing a souped up 1/2 ton to a not so souped up 3/4 ton.

Originally Posted by RBolton

The HD 3/4 components define the difference.

yes, and the only way to see those...and ONLY those, is to take everything else away. In those "packages" is where stuff gets blurred, and the overlap occurs.

Originally Posted by RBolton

The point (or at least a point) is that beyond a certain point with the 1/2 it does not take a lot to move into the 3/4.

well sure, but thats not what was said. What bill said was that there was no real cost. I say "phooey" to that. if he said "there is no real cost over a souped up half ton, which is what I'm assuming you all bought anyway"...then sure. I could go along with that.

Originally Posted by RBolton

Comparing stripped models is the misleading comparison as the trucks are nothing alike.

I think they are exactly alike, except for the features than enable one to carry WAY more than the other. and thats the argument: the price of that capacity.

Originally Posted by RBolton

Yes, it shows the huge price difference of which you speak but in my opinion one truck would likely not be able to tow the trailer in the first place.

Roger

I think the strippy 1/2 ton would only need an automatic to be "in the game". but what trailer? If we're talking about mine, thats all it would need. they don't make 'em like mine anymore, but it has the "base" 8/auto. The new 4.7 I think is actually more powerfull than my old 318. anyway, with the auto, the tow ratings would still be in the low 7's. much of my other "bling" actually lowers the rating. (its just more weight).

[Silvertwinkie]

...and all this is why I stay GM and never go to the dark side.

Maybe F...F..., well, you know, they may too be different than Dodge.

See, in my world, the 1/2 ton and 3/4 are not all that complicated.

1/2 ton- 5.3L, 4L60e, coil springs, etc.

3/4 ton- 6.0L (at one time also 8.1L), diesel (if you wanna pay for it), 4L80e, upgraded differential, upgraded frame, upgraded axle hubs, upgraded suspension, etc.

Price for the upgrade from GMs 1/2 to 3/4, from little to no cost difference to around $3k (unless of course, you opt for the Duramax/Allison combo).

Maybe half the issue here is that we're talking Dodge. Get a GM and you can have your cake and eat it too and spend that $5k you would have spent on the Dodge (depending on what GM route you take) instead on feeding the beast! $3+ /gallon can add up!

[RBolton]

Originally Posted by Chuck

I think they are exactly alike, except for the features that enable one to carry WAY more than the other. and thats the argument: the price of that capacity.

The two hemi trucks that I compared are also exactly alike except for the features that make one a 1/2 ton and one a 3/4 ton. The price difference isn't that much and I think that is the argument. If there is an argument here.

I didn't intend to hurl myself into the middle of a squabble. I don't disagree that there is a significant price difference between base 1/2's and 3/4's, nor do I deny that there are a lot of variables and overlap possibilities when pricing a truck.

It is just as incorrect to say that there is a $5,000 difference between 1/2 tons and 3/4 tons as it is incorrect to say there is no difference. Phrased that way an argument may ensue. So, I will state it a different way. It is just as correct to say that there is a $5,000 difference between 1/2 tons and 3/4 tons as it is correct to say there is no difference.

Roger

[Boondocker]

I recently switched from a 1991 1/2 ton to a 1997 3/4 ton. The difference in towing is considerable. I wasn't white knuckle towing with the 1/2 ton for the most part, but I have to say with the 3/4 I am much more at ease. I attribute this to the suspension and brakes and so forth. As to the power issue, the two trucks can't even be compared. The 1/2 was under powered in the west, where as the 3/4 ton has a 7.3 PSD. Towing mileage with the 1/2 was at best around 11 mpg towing 55-60, with the PSD it has run a bit above 15 at 65 mph. Further, daily driving mileage is about 4 mpg better with the 3/4. I bought the truck right ($6K) with 180k miles. It is a very plain truck, no frills. I expect to drive it at least another 5 years. Between what I paid and the mileage gap, I suspect I will come out pretty good on the deal.

My observation, having towed with both, is this. A 3/4 ton is definitely nice for towing, but not strictly speaking a necessity. The more miles you tow, and the more mountainous the towing, the more you will benefit from the 3/4 and for that matter from a diesel. Just my opinion, but there it is.

[Chuck]

Originally Posted by RBolton

The two hemi trucks that I compared are also exactly alike except for the features that make one a 1/2 ton and one a 3/4 ton.

no, you've taken a 1/2 ton, and ADDED a bunch of 3/4 ton features...for which you must pay, and compared that to a base 3/4 ton. Of course, the more 3/4 ton features you add to the 1/2 ton, the closer they will be in price. you pay for the features either way. "3/4 ton" means "all of them". 1/2 ton means "none of them"...or "some of them"...or "most of them".... which one? the difference between "all" and "none" is 5 grand. The difference between "all" and "most" will be...not that much...In which case, I question how much different it will perform, if you've got all (or most of) the same stuff...but thats another discussion.

[RBolton]

Originally Posted by Chuck

no, you've taken a 1/2 ton, and ADDED a bunch of 3/4 ton features...for which you must pay, and compared that to a base 3/4 ton.

Nowhere have I compared a loaded up 1/2 to a base 3/4. I don't think anyone in this thread has, but you seem to be stuck on that.

Chuck, to be fair to Bill, this will be my last post in this thread. My mother always told me there should never be any arguments. If a person is right they have no need to argue and if they are wrong they have no business arguing. I have no need to argue here.

Roger

[Chuck]

you've added far more in upgrades to the 1/2 than you have to the 3/4 in order to get a smaller difference in price. You might just as well compare the most expensive 1/2 ton to the least expensive 3/4 and argue that 3/4 is cheaper.

[TIMEMACHINE]

Chuck,

Remind me to pick you for my team when we have our next sand lot football game....you are one determined soul. Although I tend to be somewhere in the middle (kinda), I admire your loyalty to your perspective. You all have been fairly civil in your bantering....I certainly believe all of the positions have been clearly stated, good thing each one of us gets to choose our path.

[RedSHED]

(shakes head, mutters to self, not quite believing this thread is still going on).

The pricing stuff is not an accident. If it was easy to compare A vs B, people might buy the one with less markup.

Not quite sure what anybody intends to tow with a 6 cyl 1/2 ton, because he could probably fit the canoe it's rated for in the bed.

[DFord79]

The ideal tow vehicle takes some time to find. You have to match it up to what you tow. Many don't reasearch enough or pay too much attention to what the salesman says.

So here goes...IN MY WORLD>>>>> THE PERFECT TOW VEHICLE FOR A SAFARI 25' WITH A 7,300# LOADED CAPACITY.

Ford F-150 XL regular cab 145" wheel base 2wd. 4.1 LS rear with heavy duty trailer tow package and if you wait a few months it will have the FACTORY TRAILER BRAKE CONTROLLER like the SUPER DUTIES HAVE. With a factory class IV hitch.

It has an 11,000# trailer tow capacity with "E" rated 245/75X17 tires (Same tires that are on the one ton dually except there are 4 of them instead of 6 on the dually) with 7 lug heavy duty wheels. SAME BRAKE ROTORS AS 3/4 TON ON THIS ONE TOO.

It has a GCVW of 16,400#.

It has a Cargo Carrying Capacity of 3050# (more than most 3/4 tons w/4X4)

It ONLY comes in XL trim level but on a half ton that also means you can get carpet and upgraded sterio. A/C. etc.

IT has an upgraded heavy duty frame too. Fords specs on the frame are right with the 3/4 ton.

It has the 5.4, Auto trans. (6sp auto if you wait a few months for the 09). Then you can also get the 310 hp 5.4.

Rated at 17 mpg Hwy mileage. Maybe a bit less than an unloaded 3/4 ton diesel...but then the price of diesel where I live TODAY is 3.69 a gallon and 3.13 gor unleaded. Diesel usually costs about 50 cents more a gallon here year around.

NOW....heres the final kicker in this deal. IF you are like us and don't need a crew cab. Don't care to impress you'r neighbors with a chomed up High dollar leather seat truck. You can get this well equipled with carpeted floors, upgreaded sterio/CD player. Cruise controll etc. for $25,165 on the Ford Web site. And if you buy in the next 6 weeks....$22,665 with 2,500 rebate.

A truck that will truly tow you 25 foot AS for OVER 20,000 Grand less than a diesel....and fuel mileage real close to a diesel when unloaded.

Just my 2 Cents.....these are out there you just have to ignore the salesman and know what you want. NOT a truck for all..just a truck for us.

[Road Ruler]

I received the Annual Auto Issue from Consumers Report yesterday and stumbled over an interesting stat regarding 60mph to 0 stopping distances.

Dodge Ram 1500 153'
Dodge Ram 2500 176'

Ford F-150 153'
Ford F-250 159'

Chev Silverado 1500 153'
Chev Silverado 2500HD 171'