Reflections on 3/4 ton ownership

[Silvertwinkie]

Here is a Suburban comparison since SUV was mentioned, again, straight from the Chevy site:

1/2 ton
2008 Suburban 1/2 Ton LTZ 1LZ
4x4 Drive
MSRP:$51,305.00Colors & Options: $0.00Total MSRP*:$51,305.00Current Offers:- $3,000.00Net Price:$48,305.00

3/4 ton

2008 Suburban 3/4 Ton LT 3LT
4x4 Drive
MSRP:$47,750.00Colors & Options: $0.00Total MSRP*:$47,750.00Current Offers:- $3,000.00Net Price:$44,750.00


The LTZ 1LZ is an upgrade beyond the LT 3LT availible on the 1/2 ton that appears not to be availible on the 3/4 ton, maybe because some of the features are already part of the 3/4 ton....at any rate, as you can see the price between 1/2 ton and 3/4 ton gassers as was pointed out is not significantly higher comparing apples to apples in a standard gasser line in GM land. I did not and don't shop Ford or Dodge, so this will have to do.

Keep in mind that diesel is NOT currently an option on the SUV line yet, so these are real world comparision numbers, again, with your own horse trading skills, your mileage (price) may vary.

I totally agree diesel has far more torque, but my comments are aimed directly at the comments that there is a significant price difference between a gasser 1/2 ton and a gasser 3/4 ton. Clearly my two comparision posts demonstrate this is not the case. In the SUV arena, the 1/2 costs more than the 3/4 ton!

Difference to upgrade to 3/4 ton: SAVINGS of $3555
If you get the same LT 3LT on the 1/2 ton, it's nearly a dead heat!
Minimal in my book, either way you go....

[RIstream'n]

Originally Posted by BillTex

Chuck, let's take "one for instance" a 5.6l F150 and a 5.5l F250, depending on how they are packaged, would have an awful lot of overlap (let's not get into every Mfr and every model-this would result in hundreds of price points...) but the point is; if you were getting ready to lay out some cash (let's keep it low by todays numbers) and say you were going to drop $30G on a new truck, this could get you either a F150 or F250.Very easily. If you're objective is towing, then the decision should be easy.

If you were selling trucks, couldn't you have arranged a better deal? For yourself?

The real price differential, when we bought the D/A versus a gasser was between $3-$4k. And I saw this at several dealers, after looking at dozens of trucks and invoices...and I didn't know anyone at these dealers.

Anyway, while I am very happy with the diesel so far, the point of the post was the advantage of 3/4 tonners vs 1/2 tonners, not diesel vs. gas. As noted, even 1/2 ton's have enough juice to move any AS out there. It is the platform, not the engines, that makes the difference.

Bill

Hey Bill, Haven't talked to you in a while. How's it goin? I love hearing your opinions on towing and 3/4 ton trucks. Thanks for sharing your experience.

[BillTex]

Hey Brian, yeah life is good-the shoulder is healing fine. Got back on skiis last week.
Making lots of plans for Streamin this summer. I see you have a big trip planned! Good for you.

Moosetags, that is one of the points I tried to make...there is no "hassle" associated with diesel. Not that I have found. Some price penalty up front, but not much (as noted ~$3k-$4k in our case) but the day to day has been a non-issue. Again, untill we put a good 150k miles on the diesel I am not ready to jump up/down about it...but so far so good. I never towed with a BB gasser 3/4 ton, and GM don't make em' anymore so I prolly won't. I will agree that gas vs diesel is personal pref for what AS makes...
Bill

[osolow]

personaly i will be buying a 3/4ton duramax for my next daily driver and t/v. just because of there superior duribility and longevity. also if you were to get into the performance aftermarket from the little bit of research ive done you get more hp and a whole lot more torque and better fuel economy.
Also if you just look at the way the automotive industry is going i bet you will notice growing trend in useing diesel's in the next few years Ive also read that GM will be puting a 4.8lt duramax diesel in the 1/2 ton trucks. also electric car's are out the window there is no future for them unless there a hybrid running a diesel for the power plant. there just an all around better power plant. and if you wanna be a head of the curve get a diesel.

[safari 28]

I would submit since October I have towed over 15k miles and 70 plus nights, more than most. My 08 gasser is just perfect, leased and worked hard and new every 2. Diesel in any form makes me just sick, horrible smell, burned or fluid, even geting it on my hands is like hell. It pisses me off at fuel stations and the poison is on the ground and I get it on my shoes. The new heavy half tons are set up perfect for most of what we tow. They accept weight distribution better, and track very stable.

I must bring up the subject of over rigging. When hooked up, do you have 3-4 inches of rear suspension travel jumping on the rear bumper? Is your truck taking the beating, or your castle. If not talk to Inland Andy, the industry is ripe with way too much truck for the coach and repairs are huge. I say each his own, but for most of us, and that includes guys like me who are really using our rigs, the 1/2 ton is a viable product.

[TIMEMACHINE]

Bill,

Your original post has both passion and merit. Although I agree with the basic concept of a 3/4 ton truck being a better tow vehicle than a 1/2 ton truck, one must understand that there are exceptions. Some of our fellow AS owners have had and continue to have excellent experiences with 1/2 ton TVs. Of course many of these 1/2 ton experiences are with lighter Airstreams, yet some are with late model 25' and over weighing considerably more.

I believe much of this debate is due to perspective due to varied conditions. Taking your point one step further, I have "felt" the difference in the quality of towing with different 3/4 ton TV's, some being far better than others. Maybe the perception was swayed by the hitch set up, the balance of the load, wheel base, the tires, the road conditions, my physical ability on that day at that time, weather, traffic conditions, altitude, the number and size of passengers and so on.

In general, I think it is possible for the owner of a 1/2 ton truck to "feel" comfortable with their towing set up if all of the conditions are aligned in a positive manner. Certainly safe in most situations, but most important is the owners perception of his control and safety. He/she just "feels" good about the set up based on the input while driving.

I agree with you based on logic, but also based on how it feels when I am towing with a heavier frame, stronger suspensions/axles and bigger brakes. Another but....many of the new 1/2 SUVs and trucks have very sophisticated suspensions, electronic control systems, massive brakes and big power, they are getting close, and some would say they are already in the zone.

I appreciate your passion in your message, it is obvious your strong opinion is meant to be helpful for those still working out the details.

[BillTex]

Time, I couldn’t agree more; hitch setup is critical to an enjoyable (and safe) towing experience. And yes, many Folks are happy with ½ ton trucks. I have always qualified my opinion by stating this would apply to those who are towing a certain weight/length, and/or towing significant miles. Obviously, my advice to not apply to all. But I do think many of us end up towing further, bringing more stuff than we planned, and towing more often, after we get caught up in the AS lifestyle. Isn’t that the fun of it?
I was happy with a ½ ton (heck I’ve owned a bunch of em’) I just did not feel at all comfortable towing over 6000# with one. Because I had the benefit of towing other, lighter campers previously, the limitations of the ½ ton were very clear after dropping 1000# of hitch weight on one. I would suggest that anyone towing 25’ or greater (excluding Vintage units) is very near, or over, the rated payload capacity of a ½ ton truck after adding passengers, firewood, dog, beer. This makes for some very squirrelly towing. If you have never towed with anything else, you may think this is normal. That is the point of my old post ($.02 Worth of towing advice). Many folks just don’t tow that many miles each year, and can live with a less than optimal TV. Others try to skirt the issue by adding better tires, swapping suspension components, etc. None of these changes tow rating, payload, or GVWR. I say; just buy the TV that comes all set up for towing. Heck, we like to have a full water tank (400#), often we need to when we are boon docking. We like to pile in bikes, kayaks, firewood, buy some antiques along the way, who knows… but I don’t want to be worried about every last pound we put on board.
Having a beefy TV means you have to worry less about all the stars being aligned resulting in a “feel good” towing experience. You never have any doubt about your capacities, power, and handling. Yes you could buy a haha, spend lots of time tweaking your setup, shifting the load, etc. I say; buy the big truck and go.
The first step in the new TV decision process should be an honest evaluation of how you will be using your AS in the future; tow it to the lake property once/year? Multiple trips of several thousand miles? Full timer with no schedule and nothing to do but explore? All these, as well as rated capacities for your setup, should be an important part of the process resulting in a safe, relaxed, towing experience.



Bill

[Reganzo]

Being a newbie on the block reading this thread of posts shows me that AS owners are passionate as well as informed. When I went looking for my tv I looked at Chevy and Ford. I went with Ford as I had some good experiences with Ford and Lincoln/Mercury when I owned an 11 car limo service. That said I began look seriously at the F series, and I priced out an 08 F-250 5.4L gasser. With the tow package and all the bells and whistles, rebates it came to 37K. I then went to a larger dealer and as stuff happens they showed me an 08 F-350 6.4L diesel wiith tow package. It listed for 53K and I just laughed at the sales guy. He went through the game of checking with his manager a couple of times. Then the sales manager asked me what it would take to put me behind the wheel, and I told him I wanted to pay 42,300.00 with taxes and documents, dealer prep included in that price. He went to his boss and I told my wife to get ready to go home. He came back and asked me if I would take delivery that day, and how much was I putting down. To make this long story short my sweetie and I drove home in that F-350. I have towed my 34' AS twice and I am blown away how easy it is with that truck. So for 4000 more I won the truck lottery, and it doesnt hurt to ask...

Regards,

Reganzo

[Fyrzowt]

Bill, your viewpoints are well articulated.
Dave

[Chuck]

Originally Posted by BillTex

say you were going to drop $30G on a new truck, this could get you either a F150 or F250.Very easily.

You're not comparing apples to apples, there. what you'd get is an F250 with $5000 less "goodies" than the 150.
you said that there's "no real cost difference". 5g's is very real, to me.

Originally Posted by BillTex

If you're objective is towing, then the decision should be easy.

My vehicle has many purposes, of which towing is only 1.

Originally Posted by BillTex

If you were selling trucks, couldn't you have arranged a better deal? For yourself?

????
I got my truck for as cheap as it could be had, and it was as much as I could afford. They cost what they cost.

Originally Posted by silvertwinkie

Again, simply false

it is NOT false. what I said, is what it cost, (msrp) for that truck, at that point in time.

So chevy, today, charges less. whoop-de-freakin-doo, its still "thousand$" of dollars for the option. If that's not "real" to you, then well, congratulations, and god bless america. I'm happy for you.

I'm also happy that you're happy with your choice.

[TIMEMACHINE]

Bill,

Yep,

We are on the same page, possibly some small differences, but overall, your on target.

[pmclemore]

My goal, when I bought my Duramax-Allison, was to have a long-term, trouble free rig that would give me pleasure each time I used it. Just as with my Airstream.

Aside from a stupid-mechanic trick that caused a tow, I have been rewarded by my choice and hope I have 10 more years of this kind of service.

Pat

[ROBERT CROSS]

Wait til next year..

New oil burner in the Chevy 1500 series.

Can't wait for that discussion.

Karma too ya...this is a great read'n thread.

here's what I chose.

[RedSHED]

Hmm... Last time I went truck shopping I found one (1) Hemi powered 2500 Ram. It was less than a Hemi powered 1500 Ram of the same trim level - both used, similar miles. It was a couple thousand less, IIRC.

Decided rear seat was too small. Bought a Chevy.
Unlike some others who have posted here, our truck has exactly one purpose: to tow the trailer. I start it up about once every couple of weeks in the winter, and occasionally MrsRedshed will cram the back full of girl scout cookies or recycling, but that's about it. I bet we haven't put 500 miles on it since October.
It's a 1500HD, and I feel it's a pretty good match for the 31' Excella.
Not really looking forward to $4 gas, however.
We use one car and other means to satisfy our commuting/grocery needs.

[safari 28]

Originally Posted by RedSHED

Hmm... Last time I went truck shopping I found one (1) Hemi powered 2500 Ram. It was less than a Hemi powered 1500 Ram of the same trim level - both used, similar miles. It was a couple thousand less, IIRC.

Decided rear seat was too small. Bought a Chevy.
Unlike some others who have posted here, our truck has exactly one purpose: to tow the trailer. I start it up about once every couple of weeks in the winter, and occasionally MrsRedshed will cram the back full of girl scout cookies or recycling, but that's about it. I bet we haven't put 500 miles on it since October.
It's a 1500HD, and I feel it's a pretty good match for the 31' Excella.
Not really looking forward to $4 gas, however.
We use one car and other means to satisfy our commuting/grocery needs.

Its a great truck, I have a friend that tows a 28 Sea Ray often with a 1500 HD and it just does the job. I considered the 1500 HD but Ford had lease rates in Sept and Oct that were too good to turn down. I am a marine guy and running a gasser at 3800 rpm to get up hill is a walk in the park. Tows all day a 28 at 2200rpm out of over drive. I usually pass the diesel 5ver way overloaded. This is why I like the console shift. Real busy in the Mountains here in the western US. Your decision for a 1500 HD is well thought out. It will give your A/S a long life as well.

[safari 28]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Wait til next year..

New oil burner in the Chevy 1500 series.

Can't wait for that discussion.

Karma too ya...this is a great read'n thread.

here's what I chose.

God I love the 8100, great design and fixed all the problems of a 454. Guess it is not in Marine version anymore??

[safari 28]

I know most of you have mentioned safety and brakes as the reason for a 3/4 ton. Today I saw all day my trailer brakes were not on due to some corrosion in the connection on the trailer. Never looked at the Prodigy untill late. Granted lts of flat land in eastern New Mexico and, if you spend time in the Ford delarship you will see what they have done to relieve heat in the brake systems on the 08 1/2 tons. I tell you they have blurred the 2 models due to the threat of the Japanese.

I am earning my stripes here and want industry experts like Andrew T and Inland Andy to chime in. In an evasive move, are you safer in a 150 or a 250 or 350. I think I know the answer, and the reason Airstram used a Porche for its promo, but please, safety in my mind does not justify a 3/4 ton.

[RIstream'n]

Originally Posted by ROBERT CROSS

Wait til next year..

New oil burner in the Chevy 1500 series.

Can't wait for that discussion.

Karma too ya...this is a great read'n thread.

here's what I chose.

Hey Robert I have one of those 8100's in my 03 Avalanche. I love it!!

[ROBERT CROSS]

Originally Posted by RIstream'n

Hey Robert I have one of those 8100's in my 03 Avalanche. I love it!!

Well it's time to replace the Frantic Banana #1 (see classified section)

Just couldnt pass this one up. 2006 3/4 Suburban. 14610mi. G.M.

exec demo, Put in service 3/07. fac warranty to 3/10. this darn thing is

loaded. Pick it up in N.C. the first week of March. Waddya think.

[Swanny]

Originally Posted by Fyrzowt

Bill, You make some valid points...but,


A couple of points where my thought diverge from yours....
1. I have never had a "white knuckle" experience. I just delivered a 29' A/S trailer to the midwest, I tow my 25' Safari all over with no problems.


Dave

The key point here is that you're towing a 25' AS. Try pulling a 31 or 34 foot AS with a 1/2 ton....it just isn't safe because I can speak from experience. We went ahead and bit the bullet and purchased 1 ton truck with diesel. Many people have insisted that this will damage the TT but after 12k miles of towing there is no damage to our 34' Excella.

Good luck and may the best man win! Oh...I guess we all won because we have an Airstream.