Ram 1500 EcoDiesel or Ford F-150 EcoBoost?

[rodsterinfl]

SOMEBODY wiggled a nerve!

Yes, it did and without much regard for what the OP asked. He said that he had talked his wife into at least driving a half-ton so the question was ONLY between an F150 or EcoDiesel. Yet, notice all the posts telling them to buy a larger truck or, ignore any payload sticker, or etc.

Naturally people share their experiences and information but what I get ruffled about is when people tell others to ignore manufacturer limits or specifications and say it is ok. The F150 does not require 91 octane. The manual states that you "may get better performance when towing" but it is not required; however, I do not take away from those who were in the mountains and shared their experience. Trucks in general, hold their value. My diesel car lost as much as the gas model in the two years I had it. The new F150 trucks in most cases, when configured appropriately, are more than half-ton without the bulk of a larger truck. Some are 2300 pound payload.

[GettinAway]

Originally Posted by Joe_Julie

I make my living off the remanufacture of injectors for diesel engines. Let's just say times have been good. In order to meet very strict emission standards diesel engines are fitted with numerous pieces of emission equipment that have extremely high failure rates. This is due to their lack of testing and development prior to a rushed launched to market (customers are the beta testers). This includes Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) coolers, Urea injection after-treatment and injectors that have tolerances measured in microns that will fail with the slightest bit of contamination. The new Ford 6.7L Power Stroke has a replacement kit that is over $6,000 that includes the entire fuel system, lines, pump, injectors, etc. due to contamination issues. It's under warranty right now, but the day after warranty guess who will pay for that?

I would not own a diesel powered vehicle right now. Instead, I would pick a turbocharged V6 such as the Eco Boost, but as a first choice would simply choose a good V8 with standard fuel injection (I'd stay away from Gasoline Direct Injection as well). You will sacrifice a bit of fuel economy but reliability will be outstanding. Dodge HEMI is a reliable engine along with the Ford V8 and of course Toyota.

We are in a unique time. The emission standards outpaced the current technology to meet those standards. As a result, manufacturers had to rush technology to the market without fully testing them. Part of why diesels are so expensive over their gasoline counterparts is reserve for warranty repairs.

Just my .02 cents - good luck with your search for a new tow vehicle.

I copied this post and emailed it to my son. He just made a decision to get a new Ford F-250. He went round and round about getting a diesel. He had always wanted one. But research told him to stay away from the diesels right now. So, he bought the big gas engine with it. He will put 300,000 miles on it, 90% highway miles, 90% virtually empty. He occasionally will pull a trailer, but seldom. He was scared off the diesels after looking into the new ones.

[Howard L.]

Originally Posted by Joe_Julie

I make my living off the remanufacture of injectors for diesel engines. Let's just say times have been good. In order to meet very strict emission standards diesel engines are fitted with numerous pieces of emission equipment that have extremely high failure rates......

I would not own a diesel powered vehicle right now. Instead, I would pick a turbocharged V6 such as the Eco Boost, but as a first choice would simply choose a good V8 with standard fuel injection (I'd stay away from Gasoline Direct Injection as well). You will sacrifice a bit of fuel economy but reliability will be outstanding. Dodge HEMI is a reliable engine along with the Ford V8 and of course Toyota......

Joe, you are in the business, so I'm sure you know. But as an owner and user of several Turbo Charged engines in boats (both diesel and gas) an awfully lot of $$$ can be spent on Turbos. The turbo itself can be a money pit as can the engine asked to digest all the hot high pressure air being crammed down it's throat to produce max horsepower. A cast iron diesel is one thing, but a small aluminum block? And with the ford engine, we are talking about two chargers. I guess time will tell, but I would plan on trading often if using a small turbo gas engine to tow larger Airstreams.
PS, guess I'm a lucky one, no money spent on emission equipment, or anything else, in a 100k mile Duramax.

[davidrrand]

Originally Posted by Milo1952

Towing a loaded international 30 will be a pleasure
With my 2016 f250 SC.
I agree with you that Ford made the 2017 too.... Long
But mine is insignificantly larger than a 150.under an inch longer ,same Width. Fits nicely in my garage.
2500 miles from California to my home in Illinois.
Never went over 1750 rpm.
On the downhills I seldom had to touch my brakes thanks to my diesel exhaust braking.
Added safety.
This was especially important as I was caught in a major
Snow storm with 60 mph winds.10 inches of snow.
My combo didn't move once. Not once. Not from wind
Not from trucks Not from slippery conditions.
To be fair though I did come to a complete stop on I40
Semis are lined up unable to make the grade.I simply threw my truck into 4wheel drive and never looked back.
You can keep your 150 but I'll take the extra power and safety that my 250 gives me.
I did not buy this vehicle as a daily driver.I purchase a tow vehicle.My Mazda cx5 makes a fine daily driver.

Can you carry a side by side ATV in your 150, plus tow a maxed out 30 foot TT. Me thinks not. I can.My truck is a tool
And having the proper tools for the job at hand is important to me. Your 150 would be severely overloaded give under.
The above described situation. The minimally extra expense is worth the peace of my truck provides me with.
I'm not knocking your 150 but it is clearly the little brother to the 250 in every tangible way.But, if works for your situation ,
Great.It is just not for me.😁

**********

Can you really tow your 30' , side x side UTV and other camping gear with a 250? I would think just the tongue weight and UTV would be almost 2500 lbs. in payload. I had an older F350 Powerstroke that was pushing 3500 lbs payload but I did not realize a 250 could manage that. Awesome.

[DKB_SATX]

Originally Posted by Howard L.

Joe, you are in the business, so I'm sure you know. But as an owner and user of several Turbo Charged engines in boats (both diesel and gas) an awfully lot of $$$ can be spent on Turbos. The turbo itself can be a money pit as can the engine asked to digest all the hot high pressure air being crammed down it's throat to produce max horsepower. A cast iron diesel is one thing, but a small aluminum block? And with the ford engine, we are talking about two chargers. I guess time will tell, but I would plan on trading often if using a small turbo gas engine to tow larger Airstreams.
PS, guess I'm a lucky one, no money spent on emission equipment, or anything else, in a 100k mile Duramax.

The twin-turbo V6 Ecoboost has been available (and a high-take-rate option) in the F150 since 2011. They had a couple of significant issues with affordable fixes early on (the intercooler suffered internal condensation in high-humidity-light-load conditions that could then be ingested into the engine and freak out the computer, mainly.) They came out with a fix for the original design, and later redesigned the intercooler setup a bit.

If I lived at the bottom of a mountain and towed a heavy trailer to the top of it every day, I'd probably buy a giant diesel. However, even towing doesn't use a huge fraction of the engine's available output most of the time, once up to speed and not climbing a grade you're not in heavy boost and asking for the full 375 hp (my Gen2 3.5's rated output.)

The only times I really needed my old 5.4's rated output were when it absolutely could not deliver (climbing grades at altitude with the trailer in tow.) The turbos address that problem and my non-towing MPG is up sharply from the 5.4. I expect towing MPG to be about the same as the 5.4 managed.

I think the fact that Ford is running the 3.5EB in the Transit is significant. That's an application in which they likely expect high mileage and rough service.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by Milo1952

Towing a loaded international 30 will be a pleasure
With my 2016 f250 SC.
I agree with you that Ford made the 2017 too.... Long
But mine is insignificantly larger than a 150.under an inch longer ,same Width. Fits nicely in my garage.
2500 miles from California to my home in Illinois.
Never went over 1750 rpm.
On the downhills I seldom had to touch my brakes thanks to my diesel exhaust braking.
Added safety.
This was especially important as I was caught in a major
Snow storm with 60 mph winds.10 inches of snow.
My combo didn't move once. Not once. Not from wind
Not from trucks Not from slippery conditions.
To be fair though I did come to a complete stop on I40
Semis are lined up unable to make the grade.I simply threw my truck into 4wheel drive and never looked back.
You can keep your 150 but I'll take the extra power and safety that my 250 gives me.
I did not buy this vehicle as a daily driver.I purchase a tow vehicle.My Mazda cx5 makes a fine daily driver.

Can you carry a side by side ATV in your 150, plus tow a maxed out 30 foot TT. Me thinks not. I can.My truck is a tool
And having the proper tools for the job at hand is important to me. Your 150 would be severely overloaded give under.
The above described situation. The minimally extra expense is worth the peace of my truck provides me with.
I'm not knocking your 150 but it is clearly the little brother to the 250 in every tangible way.But, if works for your situation ,
Great.It is just not for me.��

Well, sounds like you have it all figured out for yourself; now what about the EchoDiesel vs Echoboost question?

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by VernDiesel

My experience matches what Cabinetmaker & Howard said. My 2014 Ecodiesel with 290,000 has been very low cost to maintain so far. But it's regularly worked. Seems like if they are Primarily used for a very short commute & idled a lot that they need a tune or they have emissions issues.

Gypsydad, Do you have overload scale ticket that you can post & do you use a WDH?

Because if you follow the rampant bad advice of using the payload sticker and adding up tongue & payload guesstimates you may not be overloaded. If you have sway or handling problems with something as light as a typical wet weight 27 it's likely poor weight redistribution & or lack of sway control from your hitch. Some move to HD to mask this but it should be done regardless of TV when towing a larger TT.

The correct plan is to Pick a TT whose GVWR (not dry weight) (as you normally won't exceed this weight when camping) is less than your trucks max tow ratings. If the TT that you pick has GVWR or wet weight that is less than 5,000 pounds you won't likely exceed your trucks GVWR (actual payload) or more importantly axle rating (Ram 1500s are 3,900 each) unless you heavily load the cab & bed. And according to Ram doesn't require a WDH. IMO with any larger longer TT a WDH is a good idea even below that threshold. Above 5,000 Most mfgs say use a WDH and the smart safe way to do it is to take it to a scale.

What you learn is that with a properly adjusted WDH (assuming your not heavily loading the bed) that up to your max tow weight & reasonable weight distribution ie around 12.5 percent of wet TT weight being your tongue weight (truck n trailer level) that you should not normally be exceeding your rated max axle, GVWR, CVWR, or tongue weight. Naturally the only way to know is to actually scale it. $10 is common cost at a truck stop tripple scale CAT scale. So it's not a lot of time or money to do it the right way and keep your family safe.

Now the next bub who never reads or comprehends is going to say it all depends on what that yellow payload sticker says just add up..

Thanks for your input. Yes, I have Blue-Ox WDH and it is loaded properly. I have not done a weight check in couple years, so need to get that update for sure. As for the F150 story, I was on a trip pulling a Casita with a new 2011 Tahoe in Canada, where the Tahoe had trouble pulling past 60mph up a 7% grade. A friend I was with had same Casita but was driving a new F150 EB. He left me in the dust. I got home to TX and traded my Tahoe for 2012 F150 Platinum EB.

I do try to stay within the recommended payload and pulling limits of the F150...unfortunately, I was not "educated" on what to look for in a TV and was unaware of the "limits" of this particular Platinum unit with EB SuperCrew 4X4, when I was purchasing it, or I would have got a loaded Lariat model which would have had more than 1040lb max payload. At the time, wife liked the power running boards, so if she was happy, so was I! Next TV I will know what to look for...I hope!

[Milo1952]

Ecoboost over eco diesel, I can get a 150 with payload pkg for a decent amount of payload.cant do that with a ram.you won't get the mpg with the 150 but the hp and torque are decent and you shouldn't be crawling on every incline.if I recall the 1500 clocks in at 240 hp.knd of low for a truck
How do you utilize the bed of the truck w\o sufficient payload.many of the 1500 s I looked at were 1250 to 1320 payload. 1000 lbs of tongue,me and the new at 300 lbs combined and the payload is all used up.60 lb dog and you are overweight! And lastly you will always have to be careful about what you are going to take with you on your adventures. ECO BOOST all the
Way, Hope that helps with your decision

[Mergatroyd]

The F-150 clearly has a higher payload than the RAM 1500. I believe this is because Ford went to an aluminum body construction which they claim saves 700 lbs. That will let you load the truck with 700 lbs more.

For a daily driver the RAM has the F-150 beat. One big reason is that the turning circle is much smaller. Another reason is the optional 4 point air suspension which lets you lower the truck for easy entry and exit. Very important if you have to carry old people around.

[wmcneil]

I bought a 2016 Ford expedition with the ecoboost engine and tow package. I went for the expedition vs. a truck because I needed the extra interior heated/cooled space. 2 adults, 3 big dogs. I have a 25' flying cloud, and have towed through the Appalachian mountains (no Rockies yet), and am very satisfied with the capacity of the vehicle and engine. My ideal vehicle would be something along the lines of the Ford excursion(F250 based, vs. expedition, which is F150 based), which is no longer made. I say ideal, because it would provide even more climate controlled cargo capacity.

[Rpatrick16]

Originally Posted by Arcticfox

Wow - I didn't know you could configure a Lariat package such a high payload. Amazing! Did you have to watch the other options like sun roof to keep the payload that high?
Thanks

Doug

Oops...I gave "wrong info on payload"....I was told at the time my payload would be something like 2240 but after taking a look at my door sticker it is actually 1620#. However, I still love the truck. And, yes, it does have the sunroof option...actually the whole top is either "skylight or sunroof"....ie. half of the roof opens.
At the time I was shopping...I considered the Dodge Ram 1500...looking especially at the diesel but was told the 1500 diesel was out of production for EPA reasons. The only other motor option was the V8 Hemi. The truck I looked at had the Longhorn Laramie interior that I really liked. It road and drove really nice. I was so impressed with this truck that when I went to look at the Lariat I didn't even drive one. However, when I got home and started comparing specs it was a "no brainer" to go with the Lariat. I am happy that I did. Sorry, that I miss quoted the payload capacity....I took it on "faith" that what the salesperson told me was true. I guess the old adage "buyer beware" comes back to bite again. However, everything else has turned out to be true. So, she gets, 4 stars rather than 5.

[dkottum]

Our Ram EcoDiesel has two 3900# axles, the truck weighs 6000 lbs empty. Our loaded FC25 and ProPride hitch adds 800 lbs to the truck with weight distribution set, the axles loaded evenly. That leaves us 1000 lbs axle capacity for us and more junk than we ever ever needed to travel throughout the country on many, many cross-country trips. It's a beautiful handling and riding truck with and without the Airstream, and remarkable fuel economy.

As for EPA and and the law firm law suit over emissions, hand onto your hats diesel owners, they have now added some Ram Cummins to the EcoD and VW TDI class action suits. The law firm smells big money here so are looking for more.

http://www.volkswagendieselrecalllaw...utm_medium=ppc

[Airstreamer67]

You usually can't add up the axle ratings to calculate the available payload allowed. It's more complicated than that, unfortunately. It's common for the small Ram diesel pickups to be used at weight over their rated payload capacity because they are so marginal.

[crispyboy]

Originally Posted by dkottum

As for EPA and and the law firm law suit over emissions, hand onto your hats diesel owners, they have now added some Ram Cummins to the EcoD and VW TDI class action suits. The law firm smells big money here so are looking for more.

http://www.volkswagendieselrecalllaw...utm_medium=ppc

That law firm is a prime example of bottom feeding scum and is assisting the EPA in ruining the light duty diesel market in the United States

[Mergatroyd]

Originally Posted by dkottum

Our Ram EcoDiesel has two 3900# axles, the truck weighs 6000 lbs empty. Our loaded FC25 and ProPride hitch adds 800 lbs to the truck with weight distribution set, the axles loaded evenly. That leaves us 1000 lbs axle capacity for us and more junk than we ever ever needed to travel throughout the country on many, many cross-country trips. It's a beautiful handling and riding truck with and without the Airstream, and remarkable fuel economy.

As for EPA and and the law firm law suit over emissions, hand onto your hats diesel owners, they have now added some Ram Cummins to the EcoD and VW TDI class action suits. The law firm smells big money here so are looking for more.

http://www.volkswagendieselrecalllaw...utm_medium=ppc

The class action suits I think will be dismissed eventually. As for the EPA action against FCA and their EcoDiesel, I think that the new EPA management will soon drop their concerns. Afterall, NOx levels of diesel exhaust with DEF injection are extremely low.

[majorairhead]

I don't know a thing about that RAM, but we DO have a '15 F150 with the 3.5 ecoboost, 20k miles on it, 4k+ towing an FC25 and not looking to buy another tow vehicle.....just dandy right where we are!

[VernDiesel]

Milo, I have no problem with your preference. But read my last post and see if you can understand what I'm trying to share.

On another note I just towed a 9k TT 960 miles over 6 percent grades including the grapevine. Never had to crawl up any grades. No it's not fast like the EB but as you said the EB won't get the fuel economy. Again just preference.

Mine is a 2014 so I compared it to the same spec 2014 f150 EB. The Ford was rated to carry 150 pounds more. Normal trucks not some order option max payload.

It showed a weight of 5476 to 5636. Mine was 5,574.

Airstreamer67, It's not dkottum who has failed to grasp the more "complicated" as you describe it. Read my last post read his post roll it around a few times see if you can make sense out of it.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by VernDiesel

Milo, I have no problem with your preference. But read my last post and see if you can understand what I'm trying to share.

On another note I just towed a 9k TT 960 miles over 6 percent grades including the grapevine. Never had to crawl up any grades. No it's not fast like the EB but as you said the EB won't get the fuel economy. Again just preference.

Mine is a 2014 so I compared it to the same spec 2014 f150 EB. The Ford was rated to carry 150 pounds more. Normal trucks not some order option max payload.

It showed a weight of 5476 to 5636. Mine was 5,574.

Airstreamer67, It's not dkottum who has failed to grasp the more "complicated" as you describe it. Read my last post read his post roll it around a few times see if you can make sense out of it.

I wish it were so straight forward that we could easily compare the specs but each F150 is different, depending on "options"... What I see in reading specs from both companies is the Ram 1500 Echodiesel does not offer a payload rating above 1390 lbs in a Crewcab, 4X4? You can get a loaded Lariat F150 4X4 EB Supercrew with a payload capacity up to 2270 lbs, depending on "options".... For me, I think anything above 1600payload will cover my needs fine.

Does that mean you can beef up your suspension system to get more payload or should I get a truck manufactured for the heavier load? I know many on this forum are more expert then me in this area for sure. I know I would like my next TV to come equipped from the manufacturer to handle loads above my current model! Including a topper down the road, should I decide to get one for Alaska trip!

[HeikeET]

So we have a Ram 5.7 liter Hemi with air shocks auto leveling and just bought a 25 ft. 2015 airstream. Picking it up tomorrow and driving 6 hours. Please let me know what we need to do ... if anything about weight distribution [emoji15] any comment would be appreciated

[DKB_SATX]

Originally Posted by HeikeET

So we have a Ram 5.7 liter Hemi with air shocks auto leveling and just bought a 25 ft. 2015 airstream. Picking it up tomorrow and driving 6 hours. Please let me know what we need to do ... if anything about weight distribution [emoji15] any comment would be appreciated

This is just my opinion, I'm no kind of towing professional but if I have a choice I'd stay in my Airstream instead of a Holiday Inn Express. If the RAM you're talking about is a 1500, *I* would want a hitch with weight distribution and some degree of sway control. You might not need the sway control most days, but I think the weight distribution will make a pleasant difference in your towing experience.