Ram/Cummins DEF Failure

[Adiredneck]

Originally Posted by wulfraat

I absolutely couldn't agree more.... and those who advocate a "delete" or "full delete" of emissions control systems on diesels... Yikes! I just don't understand why anyone would purposely destroy clean air on our planet by spitting out completely unfiltered noxious gases and soot particles into the environment by choice... especially from folks who enjoy the outdoors and nature.

There is proven technology to deal with the horrible output of a diesel engine. If one is skeptical about it's reliability then they should run a gas engine instead, but there are just as many points of failure / things than can go wrong there.

As I stated before, I have no issue with the *intent* of the DEF system. And, after a career as a National Park Ranger, I believe that I am as environmentally sensitive as most informed people. My issue is with a poorly designed and engineered system coupled with a ludicrous 150 disablement software program. The Cummins diesels met all 2011 Federal EPA pollution standards as produced *without* DEF. The issue was that California upped their CARB requirements so that manufacturers were forced to rush a poorly designed and poorly tested system into production to satisfy the 800 lb gorilla. California's lack of mass transit and exhaust pollution is an issue of their own construct (and another topic altogether), but it obviously affects those of us who live in rural areas and have need/use for a heavy diesel truck.


My old 2001 Dodge 2500 had *no* emissions controls whatsoever, but was kept well tuned and maintained for the farm work it was purchased for, as well as RV towing when I could. It *never* belched out the black smoke illustrated in your picture. It is a shame that the few idiotic "coal burners" that allow or tune their trucks to spew that smoke and soot should be the example by which all diesel owners are judged...

[wulfraat]

Originally Posted by Adiredneck

having a total shut-down pre-programmed into your truck's computer software with a 150 mile notice is unacceptable, IMHO.

I agree. Sounds like that is a RAM issue though. Sounds like the GMCs have a longer runway. Not sure about Ford. I think 500-1,000 miles would be reasonable.

[MAJORJDB]

If you REALLY cared about the environment, you would park your rig, as you surely don't need to use a device that emits any emissions that could harm the environment, just look at pictures in a book of the places you would like to see!! ACC would love you for it!!
JDB

[Hans627]

Originally Posted by Adiredneck

That is a *lot* more reasonable than being disabled to 5 mph in just 150 miles...!!!

Thanks for your post. It is helpful to others who tow with a diesel and specifically a Cummins.

I was curious if the 150 mlle range has changed with newer Cummins engines? I have a 2018 RAM with the 6.7 Cummins and was trying to find anything regarding the range with a DEF pump failure in the owners manual, with no success.

Any of you Cummins owners have information on newer engines?

Thanks!

[n2916s]

On my Cummins powered Nissan, total DEF failure is 150. Judging by the Titan XD forums, it is a rare event. The younger folks on that forum will leap right in and delete their trucks as soon as they get them, voiding a 5 year, 100000 mile warranty so they can "roll coal". I guess I'm just an old geezer....

[Adiredneck]

Originally Posted by MAJORJDB

If you REALLY cared about the environment, you would park your rig, as you surely don't need to use a device that emits any emissions that could harm the environment, just look at pictures in a book of the places you would like to see!! ACC would love you for it!!
JDB

I duly note the sarcasm font, and had to laugh - but there is a grain of truth to what you say. Now that I am no longer involved in agriculture or any other endeavor that requires a heavy-duty pickup, it does become a bit of an environmental question to own and operate one just to pull an RV in my retirement. Self-justification being one of my many talents, I just figure:

1.) I'm not using as much energy as most of these suburbanites are wasting with their 4,000 sq. ft. McMansions, or

2.) Putting all the energy into building/maintaining a weekend/vacation/retirement home up in the mountains or on the beach, lake, etc...; or


3.) Driving my Honda 80 miles round trip every day as I commute into a medium-sized city from my fashionable suburb; or


4.) Riding in some electric train powered by a coal-burning electric plant 100+ miles round-trip each day (and maintained by taxes paid by non-riders elsewhere in the state) to my high-paying job in the metropolis.


I'm green whenever and wherever I can be, and if the occasional camping trip or cross-country jaunt with my truck and Airstream is my worst environmental peccadillo my sins are no worse than most who are currently doing a lot of the preaching. And, compared to a certain former VP-cum-environmentalist who will remain un-named, with his huge mansion, inground pools, and private jet flights, my carbon footprint is minuscule!


PS - Pretty country out around Sharon Springs. I once went to college and lived in Cobleskill (many, many years ago...)

[rmkrum]

Oh, you must be referring to the clown that claimed to have invented the Internet, huh? Textbook example of irony...

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by Adiredneck

I duly note the sarcasm font, and had to laugh - but there is a grain of truth to what you say. Now that I am no longer involved in agriculture or any other endeavor that requires a heavy-duty pickup, it does become a bit of an environmental question to own and operate one just to pull an RV in my retirement. Self-justification being one of my many talents, I just figure:

1.) I'm not using as much energy as most of these suburbanites are wasting with their 4,000 sq. ft. McMansions, or

2.) Putting all the energy into building/maintaining a weekend/vacation/retirement home up in the mountains or on the beach, lake, etc...; or


3.) Driving my Honda 80 miles round trip every day as I commute into a medium-sized city from my fashionable suburb; or


4.) Riding in some electric train powered by a coal-burning electric plant 100+ miles round-trip each day (and maintained by taxes paid by non-riders elsewhere in the state) to my high-paying job in the metropolis.


I'm green whenever and wherever I can be, and if the occasional camping trip or cross-country jaunt with my truck and Airstream is my worst environmental peccadillo my sins are no worse than most who are currently doing a lot of the preaching. And, compared to a certain former VP-cum-environmentalist who will remain un-named, with his huge mansion, inground pools, and private jet flights, my carbon footprint is minuscule!


PS - Pretty country out around Sharon Springs. I once went to college and lived in Cobleskill (many, many years ago...)

Occasional use of a diesel pickup for towing a trailer won’t destroy the environment. Some picture of a 16 year old “rolling coal” in a pickup does not represent everyone with a tune on their truck.

This whole thread reminds me of people who get mad at people for not using their “blinker” but are OK with speeding.

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by MAJORJDB

If you REALLY cared about the environment, you would park your rig, as you surely don't need to use a device that emits any emissions that could harm the environment, just look at pictures in a book of the places you would like to see!! ACC would love you for it!!
JDB

Who is ACC?? You mean AOC??...who cares what she thinks anyway! She needs to go back to tending bars!

[n2916s]

Um, political much? Kinda thought that was a big "no no"

[gypsydad]

Originally Posted by n2916s

Um, political much? Kinda thought that was a big "no no"

Maybe so..sorry if I offended you. Meant as a "humorous" reply...

[Shermy1987]

One of the easiest bandaids to the derate problem is to purchase a code reader that will delete emissions codes. 90% of emissions faults get activated under operating conditions. Therefore you can turn the ignition on, not start the truck and clear them. Then you get out of derate mode for a while.

[n2916s]

Shermy1987: According to owners on the Titan forum, at least on the Nissan, you can't turn off the derate countdown with code reader. Probably a Federal thing and might not apply to Fiat- Chrysler but if I get that notification, I HAVE to find a Nissan dealer with a diesel tech...

If I had to do it over again -- it would be the same truck, gasoline engine.

[Shermy1987]

Originally Posted by n2916s

Shermy1987: According to owners on the Titan forum, at least on the Nissan, you can't turn off the derate countdown with code reader. Probably a Federal thing and might not apply to Fiat- Chrysler but if I get that notification, I HAVE to find a Nissan dealer with a diesel tech...

If I had to do it over again -- it would be the same truck, gasoline engine.

My response was in regards to a ram, not the titan.

[Adiredneck]

Originally Posted by Shermy1987

One of the easiest bandaids to the derate problem is to purchase a code reader that will delete emissions codes. 90% of emissions faults get activated under operating conditions. Therefore you can turn the ignition on, not start the truck and clear them. Then you get out of derate mode for a while.

On the Rams you cannot delete or override a DEF code. Once that "death is imminent" warning comes up, it starts counting down from 150 to limp mode. Both FCA and non-dealer diesel mechanics told me this...

[Countryboy59]

Originally Posted by Adiredneck

On the Rams you cannot delete or override a DEF code. Once that "death is imminent" warning comes up, it starts counting down from 150 to limp mode. Both FCA and non-dealer diesel mechanics told me this...

You can override with a tuner.

[Mansderm161]

Don't know if 100% accurate or if it pertains, but I fear the "limp mode." I was just at Mercedes getting my Interstate DEF topped off for a trip. They had told me "do not let DEF get too low as that causes emission problems." They also said most common reason for limp mode in the sprinter is plugged diesel particulate filter which is caused by bad biodiesel mixed gas.

[out of sight]

My 2018 RAM has a 5.5 gallon DEF tank. While towing I get about 3000 miles per tank. The rule of thumb is 2% DEF per gallon of fuel used. I fill up when it gets down to half a tank with 2.5 gallons from Walmart for $7.88. On a long trip I carry a 2.5 gallon jug with me. It's probably not necessary now but a few years ago I had a difficult time finding DEF in Canada.

I use the cheap stuff from Walmart in my 3.0 liter Mercedes too. Never had a problem. The Mercedes has a 7.5 gallon tank which lasts over 10,000 miles.

I once saw a pump in a truck stop that used the same hose for DEF and diesel. Keep away from that.

[Shermy1987]

Originally Posted by Adiredneck

On the Rams you cannot delete or override a DEF code. Once that "death is imminent" warning comes up, it starts counting down from 150 to limp mode. Both FCA and non-dealer diesel mechanics told me this...

As a Cummins certified technician for over 10 years, I beg to differ.

[Shermy1987]

I think the point is being missed. Nothing is being over ridden.

The majority of codes are a result of mechanical or heat related failure such as a sensor failing to read correctly at operating temperature or in this case, a def pump failing. If the malfunction isn't a straight out electrical failure then the computer will not recognise any problems when the ignition is turned on. Therefore, you can clear the codes and get out of derate mode. Obviously the code will return when driving and you will wind up getting another derate at whatever the predetermined time frame is. However, you're not limping along allday trying to find a workshop.

As for if this works with the Titan or not. I haven't had any experience with Nissans, but I still suspect that the codes can be cleared with many quality aftermarket code readers. Obviously not some piece of junk brought from eBay. Or. As mentioned, adding a tuner to the Titan definitely will allow for this.