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Old 05-14-2019, 09:41 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by DewTheDew View Post
As a government bureaucrat I can assure you that they are not ignorant, just restricted in what they can do about it.
And thatís a good thing. Thereís got to be a balance.
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Old 05-14-2019, 10:03 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by Adiredneck View Post
I know many forum members like myself are using Ram 2500s and 3500s with the Cummins turbodiesel engines as our tow vehicles. They are a great vehicle and powertrain, and I love the way mine tows my 27FB Classic, buuuttttt... They have a serious Achilles Heel: The DEF system.


My DEF pump died on the way cross-country a couple weeks ago, and turned the trip into a real adventure. The problem is not that a DEF malfunction makes the truck unsafe or unusable; the issue is that, once a problem is sensed by the OBD system, the truck disables itself to 5 mph max with only 150 miles notice. For those of us who do long journeys with our Airstreams, this usually leaves us stranded a long way from home - as we were. And good luck finding a dealer to fix it or getting the parts in under a week! It is a ticking time bomb under the hood of every Ram/Cummins (and, I believe that Ford and GM diesels have a similar disabling software setting) - and an expensive one, even if covered under warranty.


For those interested in the details of our "adventure", they are chronicled under a different post:



http://www.airforums.com/forums/f42/...re-195427.html


Love the truck - hate the DEF system!
...never had any problems with either one of ours.....all diesel manufacturers use it
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Old 05-14-2019, 10:09 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Adiredneck View Post
I hope so. Central Pennsylvania is not exactly the wilderness, and yet we would've been stranded there for over three weeks if I had not taken drastic action. Imagine the DEF cutting you off somewhere out west or on the Alaskan highway...
Happened many times with big trucks.....and a refer loaded with veggies...and fruits....
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Old 05-14-2019, 11:12 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adiredneck View Post
I agree with their purpose and intent, but why not a 1,000 mile limit for disablement?
150 miles is pretty bad for the reasons you described.

My GMC 2500 appears to be better at that, though I haven't run out of DEF yet or had a malfunction.

It gives several warnings before running out.

From the manual:
Quote:
If these warnings are ignored and
the DEF tank becomes empty, the DIC message displays:

EXHAUST FLUID EMPTY REFILL NOW - 805 KM (500 MI) UNTIL 105 KM/H (65 MPH) MAX SPEED.

The displayed mileage will decrease as driving continues. A warning light
also comes on.

When the mileage countdown is zero, the DIC message EXHAUST
FLUID EMPTY REFILL NOW - TRANSITIONING TO 105 KM/H (65 MPH) MAX SPEED displays. A warning light and a chime also
come on. Vehicle speed will be reduced to a maximum speed limit of 105 km/h (65 mph).

After the transition to 105 km/h
(65 mph) is complete, the DIC message displays:

EXHAUST FLUID EMPTY REFILL NOW - SPEED LIMITED TO 105 KM/H (65 MPH) Ė
120 KM (75 MI) UNTIL 89 KM/H (55 MPH) MAX SPEED.

The displayed mileage will decrease as driving continues. A warning light and a chime also come on.

When the mileage countdown is zero, the DIC message EXHAUST
FLUID EMPTY REFILL NOW - TRANSITIONING TO 89 KM/H (55 MPH) MAX SPEED displays.
A flashing warning light and a chime also come on. Vehicle speed will be reduced to a maximum speed limit of 89 km/h (55 mph).

After the transition to 89 km/h
(55 mph) is complete, the DIC message EXHAUST FLUID EMPTY REFILL NOW - SPEED LIMITED
TO 89 KM/H (55 MPH) Ė 120 KM
(75 MI) UNTIL 8 KM/H (5 MPH) MAX SPEED displays. The displayed
mileage will decrease as driving continues. A flashing warning light and a chime also come on.

When the mileage countdown is
zero, the DIC message EXHAUST FLUID EMPTY REFILL NOW - TRANSITIONING TO 8 KM/H
(5 MPH) MAX SPEED displays.
A flashing warning light and a chime also come on. Vehicle speed will be reduced to a maximum speed limit of 8 km/h (5 mph).
To summarize that:
Run out of DEF:
- you get 500 miles before dropping to 65 MPH
- you get an additional 75 miles before dropping to 55 MPH
- you get an additional 75 miles before dropping to 5 MPH

A total of 650 miles of DEF-less driving before you run into the crippling limit of 5 MPH. That's pretty good.
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Old 05-14-2019, 11:22 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans627 View Post
What is the year of your RAM. Just curios. Thx!


Ours is a 2014 and it happened around 35k.
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Old 05-14-2019, 12:33 PM   #20
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My RAM service rep told me that DEF pump failure is often attributed to bad or contaminated DEF. I've read the same on various RAM forums.

We never use DEF other than MOPAR DEF purchased from a RAM dealer and always top it off with a 2.5 gallon container when the DEF level reaches half. RAM dealers have been given strict temperature guidelines for storing DEF, never let it get over 85F for sustained periods. We always keep our receipts.

2016 RAM 2500.
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Old 05-14-2019, 01:17 PM   #21
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I believe the limp mode restriction is an EPA mandate to manufacturers. My 15 Duramax gave me the warning and it turned out to be a heater in the DEF tank that was bad. My 18 went to Alaska and back last year with no issues. I usually buy Wal Mart brand DEF and if traveling through Canada take a jug or two with you. I ran into a few areas that was "out" in Alaska. Everything is computer controlled and resetting the code won't correct on a diesel.
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Old 05-14-2019, 01:46 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hans627 View Post
What is the year of your RAM. Just curios. Thx!
Think he said 2015 Long Bed... I was wondering same thing. Ford guys were telling me last week at my oil change, that some of the earlier diesels (not the new 6.7 PowerStroke, of course) did have some problems with the DEF pumps and one model, maybe Cummins early on when the law was passed (??) had a "bolt on DEF pump" that was notorious for failure.. I tried to Google some history on this with all 3 main diesel models today, but couldn't find it...perhaps some folks here know more?

I am just pushing 55K miles now coming up on 2 years...still want to do Alaska later this summer...don't need any concerns on DEF....
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Old 05-14-2019, 07:01 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnparris View Post
150 miles is pretty bad for the reasons you described.

My GMC 2500 appears to be better at that, though I haven't run out of DEF yet or had a malfunction.

It gives several warnings before running out.

From the manual:


To summarize that:
Run out of DEF:
- you get 500 miles before dropping to 65 MPH
- you get an additional 75 miles before dropping to 55 MPH
- you get an additional 75 miles before dropping to 5 MPH

A total of 650 miles of DEF-less driving before you run into the crippling limit of 5 MPH. That's pretty good.
But the problem in the original post was not that he ran out of DEF (which is what I first thought, too) but that the pump died so then it only gave him 150 miles. You'd think it could distinguish between running out and a broken system.
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Old 05-19-2019, 10:57 AM   #24
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I will relate my experience with my 2015 RAM. If I used the Walmart branded DEF, I would frequently get the dreaded message about my DEF system failure. I would ignore the message as the miles counted down to 0 for the engine to switch to limp mode. At 0 the check engine light would go off and I would receive no further DEF messages. I now only get DEF at the truck pumps at Pilot and have experienced zero issues. If you take your truck to a dealer with DEF issues, they will want to replace the pump as there no other fixes. The problem may only be old or bad DEF fluid.
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Old 05-19-2019, 02:09 PM   #25
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Ram/Cummins DEF Failure

Iíve only ever put in Peak Blue DEF.

https://www.peakhd.com/product_lines/bluedef/

Itís sold just about everywhere, including Walmart. DEF is just deionized water and urea as well all know. It does have a shelf life....

Is this the product you avoid? I donít know of another DEF product sold at Walmart (although Iíve only bought it there once or twice)
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Old 05-19-2019, 02:14 PM   #26
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Thus the problem with modern diesels...problems galore.
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Old 05-19-2019, 02:19 PM   #27
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I have used Walmart Peak Blue DEF almost exclusively for three years and just over 30,000 miles. One time I got a Service DEF System message when the DEF was low, but not empty. I added DEF and it took the message several starts to clear. I recently bought ($29) a refractometer to test DEF, just to be safe. I will test all DEF before I put it in either of my diesel vehicles. I figured it is a good backup in case I have a problem and the dealer tries to tell me that the DEF was bad.

Al
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Old 05-19-2019, 02:40 PM   #28
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I have been using Walmart DEF for the most part, and have not had any issues in 56kmiles...never knew there was a problem with Walmart brand. Anyone else out there have concerns related to Walmart DEF they can share? I sure don't want to save a few bucks if it is going to cause me issues down the road...
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