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Old 05-14-2019, 01:17 PM   #21
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I believe the limp mode restriction is an EPA mandate to manufacturers. My 15 Duramax gave me the warning and it turned out to be a heater in the DEF tank that was bad. My 18 went to Alaska and back last year with no issues. I usually buy Wal Mart brand DEF and if traveling through Canada take a jug or two with you. I ran into a few areas that was "out" in Alaska. Everything is computer controlled and resetting the code won't correct on a diesel.
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Old 05-14-2019, 01:46 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Hans627 View Post
What is the year of your RAM. Just curios. Thx!
Think he said 2015 Long Bed... I was wondering same thing. Ford guys were telling me last week at my oil change, that some of the earlier diesels (not the new 6.7 PowerStroke, of course) did have some problems with the DEF pumps and one model, maybe Cummins early on when the law was passed (??) had a "bolt on DEF pump" that was notorious for failure.. I tried to Google some history on this with all 3 main diesel models today, but couldn't find it...perhaps some folks here know more?

I am just pushing 55K miles now coming up on 2 years...still want to do Alaska later this summer...don't need any concerns on DEF....
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Old 05-14-2019, 07:01 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by johnparris View Post
150 miles is pretty bad for the reasons you described.

My GMC 2500 appears to be better at that, though I haven't run out of DEF yet or had a malfunction.

It gives several warnings before running out.

From the manual:


To summarize that:
Run out of DEF:
- you get 500 miles before dropping to 65 MPH
- you get an additional 75 miles before dropping to 55 MPH
- you get an additional 75 miles before dropping to 5 MPH

A total of 650 miles of DEF-less driving before you run into the crippling limit of 5 MPH. That's pretty good.
But the problem in the original post was not that he ran out of DEF (which is what I first thought, too) but that the pump died so then it only gave him 150 miles. You'd think it could distinguish between running out and a broken system.
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Old 05-19-2019, 10:57 AM   #24
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I will relate my experience with my 2015 RAM. If I used the Walmart branded DEF, I would frequently get the dreaded message about my DEF system failure. I would ignore the message as the miles counted down to 0 for the engine to switch to limp mode. At 0 the check engine light would go off and I would receive no further DEF messages. I now only get DEF at the truck pumps at Pilot and have experienced zero issues. If you take your truck to a dealer with DEF issues, they will want to replace the pump as there no other fixes. The problem may only be old or bad DEF fluid.
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Old 05-19-2019, 02:09 PM   #25
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Ram/Cummins DEF Failure

Iíve only ever put in Peak Blue DEF.

https://www.peakhd.com/product_lines/bluedef/

Itís sold just about everywhere, including Walmart. DEF is just deionized water and urea as well all know. It does have a shelf life....

Is this the product you avoid? I donít know of another DEF product sold at Walmart (although Iíve only bought it there once or twice)
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Old 05-19-2019, 02:14 PM   #26
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Thus the problem with modern diesels...problems galore.
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Old 05-19-2019, 02:19 PM   #27
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I have used Walmart Peak Blue DEF almost exclusively for three years and just over 30,000 miles. One time I got a Service DEF System message when the DEF was low, but not empty. I added DEF and it took the message several starts to clear. I recently bought ($29) a refractometer to test DEF, just to be safe. I will test all DEF before I put it in either of my diesel vehicles. I figured it is a good backup in case I have a problem and the dealer tries to tell me that the DEF was bad.

Al
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Old 05-19-2019, 02:40 PM   #28
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I have been using Walmart DEF for the most part, and have not had any issues in 56kmiles...never knew there was a problem with Walmart brand. Anyone else out there have concerns related to Walmart DEF they can share? I sure don't want to save a few bucks if it is going to cause me issues down the road...
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Old 05-19-2019, 05:21 PM   #29
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There are only about half a dozen companies packaging DEF, some have their own label, some package for resale. It is not a difficult product to manufacturer but it does have a reasonably short shelf-life. If the package is dated (not all are), avoid anything over 6 months old. Never buy it if it is displayed on an outdoor rack or display. If you see white powder or granules on the packaging, pass it by...

I have used the Walmart house brand, Blue DEF, the house brand from Tractor Supply and the NAPA packaged DEF. never a problem in 44000 miles.
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Old 05-19-2019, 05:45 PM   #30
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I understand that as long as it is stored at less than 90 degrees the shelf life is 1 year. You don't want to carry it around in the truck for a year.

Al
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Old 05-20-2019, 09:22 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Al and Missy View Post
I understand that as long as it is stored at less than 90 degrees the shelf life is 1 year. You don't want to carry it around in the truck for a year.

Al
I suppose here in TX I could make some space in the wine closet for my DEF stash!
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Old 05-20-2019, 10:34 AM   #32
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There are some 30,000 individual parts in a modern vehicle. The idea there is a "TICKING TIMEBOMB" under the hood. Really. Parts break, cars/trucks fail......SH&* happens. Why dramatize everything. Good to be diligent with your maintenance and services, but scare tactics don't help anything

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Old 05-20-2019, 11:00 AM   #33
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Yes these EPA gadgets are a liability. Some of them even shorten the life of the engine during the DPF regen cycle not the mention the fact you are putting a highly corrosive substance into your exhaust. A diesel truck is an expensive toy now days. Once they are out of warranty they can be a BIG liability to own.



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Old 05-20-2019, 11:29 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by Dexterpix
There are some 30,000 individual parts in a modern vehicle. The idea there is a "TICKING TIMEBOMB" under the hood. Really. Parts break, cars/trucks fail......SH&* happens. Why dramatize everything. Good to be diligent with your maintenance and services, but scare tactics don't help anything

Joe
I absolutely couldn't agree more.... and those who advocate a "delete" or "full delete" of emissions control systems on diesels... Yikes! I just don't understand why anyone would purposely destroy clean air on our planet by spitting out completely unfiltered noxious gases and soot particles into the environment by choice... especially from folks who enjoy the outdoors and nature.

There is proven technology to deal with the horrible output of a diesel engine. If one is skeptical about it's reliability then they should run a gas engine instead, but there are just as many points of failure / things than can go wrong there.
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Old 05-20-2019, 01:11 PM   #35
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We also had the DEF pump on our Ram die in San Antonio... There was no cost to us - it was all under warranty. Iím curious how you ended up paying $2500 - that must have been ancillary costs? The DEF pump problem itself should be covered by Chrysler even when out of warranty as an emissions component.

When we had the light come on, we went to and called several dealers to get service - this was on the Saturday before Easter, and one said to drop the truck off and they "might" be able to "look at it next week", and the others told us they didn't work on the Cummins diesels. We ended up having the original diagnostics done by a non-dealer for $362 - which I am fighting with FCA for reimbursement. The other expenses included the four nights in the KOA, additional meals, rental of the Enterprise pickup truck to pull the Airstream up to NYS, and reimbursing my friend for fuel permits and time to come down and pull my Ram north on the flatbed behind his dump truck.


When we actually got the truck to a local dealer near our northern home, they were able to fix it within a week - at no cost. But our truck turns 5 years old next February - so all warranties cease.



I posted all the details separately...


http://www.airforums.com/forums/f42/...re-195427.html
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Old 05-20-2019, 01:13 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Night owls View Post
I'm just curious how many miles you guys had on your trucks when this DEF pump failure took place. My 2017 has 25,000 miles and have plans for quite a bit of travel this summer. Just curious.



Truck was purchased new in February, 2015 and had 42,000 miles on it when the DEF pump failed.
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Old 05-20-2019, 01:18 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by johnparris View Post
150 miles is pretty bad for the reasons you described.

My GMC 2500 appears to be better at that, though I haven't run out of DEF yet or had a malfunction.

It gives several warnings before running out.

From the manual:


To summarize that:
Run out of DEF:
- you get 500 miles before dropping to 65 MPH
- you get an additional 75 miles before dropping to 55 MPH
- you get an additional 75 miles before dropping to 5 MPH

A total of 650 miles of DEF-less driving before you run into the crippling limit of 5 MPH. That's pretty good.



That is a *lot* more reasonable than being disabled to 5 mph in just 150 miles...!!!
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Old 05-20-2019, 01:23 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by SilverWind View Post
My RAM service rep told me that DEF pump failure is often attributed to bad or contaminated DEF. I've read the same on various RAM forums.

We never use DEF other than MOPAR DEF purchased from a RAM dealer and always top it off with a 2.5 gallon container when the DEF level reaches half. RAM dealers have been given strict temperature guidelines for storing DEF, never let it get over 85F for sustained periods. We always keep our receipts.

2016 RAM 2500.

I usually get mine at Pilot, Love's or Flying J truck stops, where it is fresh, frequently refilled, and stored in underground tanks where there is little temperature fluctuation. Prior to the pump failure, I had topped off the DEF at a Love's in Tuscaloosa - and drove 1,000 miles on this refill before the system failure.


As there are no truck stops near where we base for the summer, I usually have to top off with a box of Blue Peak from NAPA, but never had any problems in the past when I used the boxed urea.
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Old 05-20-2019, 01:32 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by gamakai View Post
I will relate my experience with my 2015 RAM. If I used the Walmart branded DEF, I would frequently get the dreaded message about my DEF system failure. I would ignore the message as the miles counted down to 0 for the engine to switch to limp mode. At 0 the check engine light would go off and I would receive no further DEF messages. I now only get DEF at the truck pumps at Pilot and have experienced zero issues. If you take your truck to a dealer with DEF issues, they will want to replace the pump as there no other fixes. The problem may only be old or bad DEF fluid.



As mentioned above, I had filled the DEF at a Love's in Tuscaloosa, AL, and driven 1,000 miles on that refill before the failure. If it was bad fluid, I'm not sure I would've gotten 1,000 miles down the road. The original diagnostics done by Triple K Fleet Services indicated that my pump was only delivering 7 psi, and not the 30 psi it was supposed to provide. They first thought it was a bad sensor issue, but, after replacing the sensor, found it to be the pump. The FCA dealer also confirmed the pump was bad.


I thought about continuing to drive and see what happened, but the 150 mile limit would have left us dead on I-81 near Hazleton, PA, up in the "anthracite mountains" on Easter weekend. I thought we'd have a lot more options near Harrisburg. Turned out we didn't, but that was learned after-the-fact...
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Old 05-20-2019, 01:51 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by Dexterpix View Post
There are some 30,000 individual parts in a modern vehicle. The idea there is a "TICKING TIMEBOMB" under the hood. Really. Parts break, cars/trucks fail......SH&* happens. Why dramatize everything. Good to be diligent with your maintenance and services, but scare tactics don't help anything

Joe

But this is a regulation-inflicted failure. The malfunctioning DEF pump had *no* effect on the safety, driveability, or capabilities of the truck any more than if the cab dome light burned out - yet it disables itself into a 5 mph limp mode in just 150 miles, without any recourse other than replacing the part, which no dealer seems to stock.


I agree that s**t happens, due diligence is necessary, etc., etc., but having a total shut-down pre-programmed into your truck's computer software with a 150 mile notice is unacceptable, IMHO. I tend to over-engineer everything and maintain my rig in perfect condition, and still could do nothing to prevent this. I would consider this to be much more of a "caveat emptor" than a scare tactic, and if "time bomb" is too strong a euphemism for an unpreventable, self-disabling program feature, please feel free to ignore it or choose your own...
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